Look at this bank by Tony Chohan against Justin Hall

straightback

Verified Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2014
Messages
1,851
He was shooting at it. You make it in his pocket, you send it toward your pocket, you double the corners and it goes toward your pocket, you hit it fat and maybe carom off the bottom of the stack, At any rate you take the CB uptable and hope the OB doesn't go over and back.:)
There's a formula for this shot, it's been on youtube with Efren making it. The CB is farther away than what's ideal, but what the hey!
In your laundry list of possible outcomes, you did not include: "You hang the ball up in his pocket and he runs out." At any rate, my take on it was that there was no way he was trying to kick it - just look where he contacted the OB. If he would have been trying to kick it, he missed by a damn mile on his line.
 

1pwannabe

Verified Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2015
Messages
842
Please pass around whatever it is some of you guys are smoking.

He was trying to masse to kick behind the ball, got the bounce, and was lucky with the bank.

Lou Figueroa
must be
some good stuff
I smell jealousy in the air, Lou is too old school to know the future when it's in front of his face.
 

androd

Verified Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2008
Messages
7,166
Please pass around whatever it is some of you guys are smoking.

He was trying to masse to kick behind the ball, got the bounce, and was lucky with the bank.

Lou Figueroa
must be
some good stuff
Champion shit stirrer, or, knowledgeable player, which is it?

Lou, you've been missed.;):D

Dr. Bill
I smell jealousy in the air, Lou is too old school to know the future when it's in front of his face.
Those kind of kick shots are Sucker shots anyway. :)
 

LSJohn

Verified Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2013
Messages
7,799
Please pass around whatever it is some of you guys are smoking.

He was trying to masse to kick behind the ball, got the bounce, and was lucky with the bank.

Lou Figueroa
must be
some good stuff
Tony hasn't hit a shot that bad since Hitler was a corporal.

I don't think he expected to make it, but I think he hit it the way he meant to, to clear it to his side and send whitey up table. I think he knew it might go but probably wouldn't.

But you'd better leave the smokin' to me... you have to show up at work. :D
 

Wayne

Verified Member
Joined
Nov 26, 2004
Messages
439
I am almost certain Tony played the shot. There is NO MASSE. It is a one pocket shot. It comes up. It can be made.

Take a look at how it is done (the only difference in position for my shot is the cueball is a couple of inches more off the rail so I don't have to jack up near as much.

Hopefully, SOMEONE looks at this:




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYV2r1aaYaM
 

androd

Verified Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2008
Messages
7,166
I am almost certain Tony played the shot. There is NO MASSE. It is a one pocket shot. It comes up. It can be made.

Take a look at how it is done (the only difference in position for my shot is the cueball is a couple of inches more off the rail so I don't have to jack up near as much.

Hopefully, SOMEONE looks at this:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYV2r1aaYaM
Yep, that's the one !
 

Frank Almanza

Verified Member
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
2,402
I am almost certain Tony played the shot. There is NO MASSE. It is a one pocket shot. It comes up. It can be made.

Take a look at how it is done (the only difference in position for my shot is the cueball is a couple of inches more off the rail so I don't have to jack up near as much.

Hopefully, SOMEONE looks at this:




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYV2r1aaYaM
Judging from the stroke and speed, I believe he played the bank. If he was kicking at it he would have shot it softer and if he was playing it two rails into the stack he would have used high on the cue ball to dive it quickly into the long rail with left spin to try to kill it there. My opinion.
 

Miller

Verified Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
Messages
4,196
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_yuUgEpEyg

This is exactly what Tony did but he was jacked up and further away and had to hit it harder. There is no masse, just a straight draw cutting the object ball slightly into the rail and off the point back to his hole. I have played it and had it played on me but I have never tried it jacked up (I don't think I ever will).

I decided to try it on my table with myself slightly jacking up (not to the extent Tony did). The cue ball and the 2 ball are in exactly the line and place where Tony shot it from except I am a couple of inches further off the rail with the cueball.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGGnyzzDHpc&feature=em-upload_owner
I am almost certain Tony played the shot. There is NO MASSE. It is a one pocket shot. It comes up. It can be made.

Take a look at how it is done (the only difference in position for my shot is the cueball is a couple of inches more off the rail so I don't have to jack up near as much.

Hopefully, SOMEONE looks at this:




https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYV2r1aaYaM


that's a keeper. thanks wayne.
;)

(regardless if he played it or shit one in.....)
 

3RAILKICK

Verified Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2005
Messages
238
Couple questions

Couple questions

Is this type of shot off the point helped/hindered by pocket facing(s) at the end of the cushion? (do all cushions have a facing to keep the exposed cushion terminus from distorting over time?)

Based on the table layout, I think Tony was playing the bank and primarily the cb.



Another question: has anyone heard how Tony remained sharp while away?
 

straightback

Verified Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2014
Messages
1,851
Please pass around whatever it is some of you guys are smoking.

He was trying to masse to kick behind the ball, got the bounce, and was lucky with the bank.

Lou Figueroa
must be
some good stuff
If he was going for THAT much English and swerve, he'd have hit it slower so the CB could grab both the cloth and the cushion and make contact. Also, you'd have seen it on the CB thereafter. He was elevated for the purpose of drawing the CB and, in doing so, getting a good carom angle to go uptable and beat any kiss out. My guess is he was going for a two railer.
 

lfigueroa

Verified Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2004
Messages
1,860
If he was going for THAT much English and swerve, he'd have hit it slower so the CB could grab both the cloth and the cushion and make contact. Also, you'd have seen it on the CB thereafter. He was elevated for the purpose of drawing the CB and, in doing so, getting a good carom angle to go uptable and beat any kiss out. My guess is he was going for a two railer.

You're right. No one has ever misjudged the hit and speed of a shot.

Lou Figueroa
ever
 

straightback

Verified Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2014
Messages
1,851
You're right. No one has ever misjudged the hit and speed of a shot.

Lou Figueroa
ever
Well, even if he missed his line (badly) and somehow mistakenly cranked a soft spin shot, the CB would've been straight *loaded* with English after contact if he was trying to kick it. The (severe) angle he strikes the shot at tells me he was wanting draw, not sidespin.

Hell, he'll be at Derby, let's ask him.
 
Last edited:

wincardona

Verified Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
7,302
Well, even if he missed his line (badly) and somehow mistakenly cranked a soft spin shot, the CB would've been straight *loaded* with English after contact if he was trying to kick it. The (severe) angle he strikes the shot at tells me he was wanting draw, not sidespin.

Hell, he'll be at Derby, let's ask him.
No need to wait until the Derby to ask Tony I called him and asked him how he played the shot, his response was that he played it exactly the way it played out. I then mentioned to him that there were some players that believed he tried to kick the ball, his response to that was a one word response..really..followed by a chuckle and then saying.."How was I supposed to do that?" Which I interpreted as him believing that it was ridiculous to even think that that's what he tried.:rolleyes:

So, the answer to the question on Lou being a champion shit stirrer, or, knowledgeable player has been answered, he's not both.:sorry

Dr. Bill
 

jtompilot

Verified Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2009
Messages
3,977
No need to wait until the Derby to ask Tony I called him and asked him how he played the shot, his response was that he played it exactly the way it played out. I then mentioned to him that there were some players that believed he tried to kick the ball, his response to that was a one word response..really..followed by a chuckle and then saying.."How was I supposed to do that?" Which I interpreted as him believing that it was ridiculous to even think that that's what he tried.:rolleyes:

So, the answer to the question on Lou being a champion shit stirrer, or, knowledgeable player has been answered, he's not both.:sorry

Dr. Bill
Hundreds of one pocket players shoot that two rail shot off the point. Similar shots are all over the you tube. For someone to say he was trying to kick it out or off the bottom of the stack is clueless. But thanks for calling Tony and clearing that up for the clueless:)
 

John Brumback

Verified Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2010
Messages
1,747
No need to wait until the Derby to ask Tony I called him and asked him how he played the shot, his response was that he played it exactly the way it played out. I then mentioned to him that there were some players that believed he tried to kick the ball, his response to that was a one word response..really..followed by a chuckle and then saying.."How was I supposed to do that?" Which I interpreted as him believing that it was ridiculous to even think that that's what he tried.:rolleyes:

So, the answer to the question on Lou being a champion shit stirrer, or, knowledgeable player has been answered, he's not both.:sorry

Dr. Bill
I aint hit a ball since the last dcc... John B.
 

wincardona

Verified Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
7,302
He was shooting at it. You make it in his pocket, you send it toward your pocket, you double the corners and it goes toward your pocket, you hit it fat and maybe carom off the bottom of the stack, At any rate you take the CB uptable and hope the OB doesn't go over and back.:)
There's a formula for this shot, it's been on youtube with Efren making it. The CB is farther away than what's ideal, but what the hey!
That's funny, that's exactly the way Tony explained it when I talked to him.:cool::D

Dr. Bill
 

wincardona

Verified Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
7,302
To answer the question on whether he actually banked it or tried to kick it, one would have to look a little deeper into the way the balls were positioned to make a more clear determination. Like I mentioned in an earlier post that the distance the 1ball is to the pocket allowed the shooter to hit this shot poorly and still get decent results. As long as the rail is hit before the ball the 1ball doesn't have time to get away from the point, unless it's struck very poorly. Even then the 1ball will go into the bottom of the stack if it happens to not hit the point, the problem with hitting it in that fashion is that your cue ball will not be controlled as well as it would be if the 1ball is hit more thickly. Also, like the Ghost alluded to, the 3ball is positioned slightly above Tony's pocket on the side rail. The position of the 3ball is an ally for Tony, the 3ball will stop the 1ball from going back to Danny's side of the table if the 1ball misses Tony's pocket. This can happen a number of different ways, no need to explain them.:D

Lets go back to how the 1ball is positioned (close to the pocket) To attempt to kick the 1ball toward Tony's pocket the 1ball would need to be hit thinly or even rail before the 1ball, after the cue ball hits the side rail. Shooting from the angle that Tony's shooting from Tony would have to masse the cue ball to create the angle into the 1ball, not a reasonable thought, imo. This shot if attempted would most likely hit the 1ball too thickly and the cue ball would stay in the area of where the 1ball was positioned, again, not a reasonable conclusion for the shooter to play the shot by kicking it.

Synopsis: Kicking at the 1ball the degree of difficulty is very high, and your ability to make something positive happen is limited because of the possibilities that would develop from the kick. Controlling the cue ball is also very difficult.

Banking the 1ball hitting rail first allows the shooter to hit the shot a number of different ways to get good results. Plus your cue ball is much easier to control and will never end up on the bottom rail exposing the 3ball and any other balls that are positioned on your side of the table near the pocket. The 1ball will have the ability to cause more damage off the bank then it would off the kick.


Dr. Bill
 
Last edited:

gulfportdoc

Verified Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2004
Messages
9,620
If Tony said he played the bank, then I've got to take him at his word. What confused me from the start was how hard he hit the shot. On the other hand he needed that speed in order for the CB to draw up table.

I'm puzzled by those who are maintaining that it was a kick, or a rail first shot. It looks to me like he hit the 1 ball first-- about 1/2 ball. At least no one is arguing that it didn't turn out great!:D

~Doc
 
Top