Legal ball to shoot or not?

Poolsharker

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Aug 6, 2012
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Hello I just wanted to know if "Under onepocket.org rules only" because that what rules I use for my One Pocket league.....

Situation:My opponent scratched so I put cue ball behind the line or in the kitchen, and there was two balls there...one was clearly all the way in the kitchen so I can't shoot it but, another ball was 3/4 of the way out of the kitchen with the bottom of the ball clearly past the "kitchen line" my question is...UNDER THE ONE POCKET.ORG RULES what do you go by?

The base of the ball or does the entire ball have to be completely over the line?

Thanks, Poolsharker!!
 

tonygreen

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Welcome Sharker

Welcome Sharker

This is a question that can start a dozen other questions. This is a situation that often times is discussed prior to two people playing each other for the first time. "Do you want to play base of the ball or entire ball over the line?"

It's sometimes simply a matter of preference ...

others should chime in

Welcome!
cheers
 

WillieNilly

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As far as onepocket is concerned, its a full ball over the line.

unless ,Of course, agreed to by both players before a { private} match to play base of ball, to which has never came up in my experiences.

Ive only had base of ball play in bars with 8 ball, usually " house rules"
 

androd

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Hello I just wanted to know if "Under onepocket.org rules only" because that what rules I use for my One Pocket league.....

Thanks, Poolsharker!!

If it's your league make the rules whatever you want. :D
Rod.
 

Frank Almanza

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It's true that this issue should be handled before the games begin. Either base of the ball or any part of ball touching is fine as long as it's agreed on by both players.
But the real question is how do you rule if this comes up in the middle of a game if it wasn't discussed prior to starting. Flip for it? Or What?
 

wincardona

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I believe under one pocket.org rules the entire ball must be out of the kitchen for it to be a legal shot. Most gambling matches are played with that rule in effect, mainly because it's easier to determine if the ball is legal or not to shoot.

Dr. Bill
 

Poolsharker

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One Pocket.org rule only.

One Pocket.org rule only.

Hey Poolsharker here....I wanted to thank all of you for your responces!!

But, what I'm asking is under the Onepocket.org rules what is that rule? Is it the whole ball or the base of the ball?

:confused::confused:

I started a league and this came up and I looked for it under the rules but could not find it? Do you know where it is? If so.... please direct me to it.

Thanks, Poolsharker!!
 

Tennessee Joe6

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This is the opening statement for OnePocket.org. rules. I believe this deferes your question back to WPA.

Official One Pocket Rules

©2005 OnePocket.org

Adopted by OnePocket.org 1-19-05*


Unless clearly contradicted below, general pocket billiards rules of play and etiquette apply to One Pocket, and complete General Rules are available from the World Pool-Billiard Association (WPA).


The WPA rule is:
8.13 Position of Balls
The position of a ball is determined by the projection of its center vertically downward onto the playing surface. A ball is said to be placed on a line or spot when its center is placed directly over that line or spot
.

So in playing a scratched cue ball, the base of the cue ball has to be behind the line. An object ball with its base on the line can be legally shot. However, most One Pocket players have local rules and from lack of learning the new official rules seem to defend their position ad nausea. But in their defense, not having a head string line marked on the table could be an excuse.:frus
 
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Island Drive

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I believe under one pocket.org rules the entire ball must be out of the kitchen for it to be a legal shot. Most gambling matches are played with that rule in effect, mainly because it's easier to determine if the ball is legal or not to shoot.

Dr. Bill
So is the imaginary line in one pocket .org rules based on the center of the diamond or the outside edge of the diamond, whether it be a round diamond or a diamond with pts.
 

lll

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going to the wpa rules
http://www.wpa-pool.com/web/the_rules_of_play
it states in the fouls section this
6.11 Bad Play from Behind the Head String
When the cue ball is in hand behind the head string, and the first ball the cue ball contacts is also behind the head string, the shot is a foul unless the cue ball crosses the head string before that contact. If such a shot is intentional, it is unsportsmanlike conduct.
The cue ball must either cross the head string or contact a ball in front of or on the head string or the shot is a foul, and the cue ball is in hand for the following player according to the rules of the specific game.

this implies to me base of ball
 

lll

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So is the imaginary line in one pocket .org rules based on the center of the diamond or the outside edge of the diamond, whether it be a round diamond or a diamond with pts.
a table mechanic will draw a line so many inches foward from the head rail to mark the head spot
a line thru the center of that spot is the head line
it should go thru the center of the diamond(my opinion)
 

Tennessee Joe6

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So is the imaginary line in one pocket .org rules based on the center of the diamond or the outside edge of the diamond, whether it be a round diamond or a diamond with pts.
I was typing as you were responding. Does the above post clear this up?
 

gulfportdoc

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So WPA and 1p.o use the "base" of the ball. I've also used the base of the ball in the 1P tournaments I've run. However, I believe at the DCC and their other 1P events, that they use the "face" of the object ball to determine whether it's out of the Kitchen.

Doc
 

lll

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So WPA and 1p.o use the "base" of the ball. I've also used the base of the ball in the 1P tournaments I've run. However, I believe at the DCC and their other 1P events, that they use the "face" of the object ball to determine whether it's out of the Kitchen.

Doc
id like to hear from steve
and wonder how to get in touch with ken shuman
 

SactownTom

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I agree with the OnePocket.org rules that it is covered by the WSR when not mentioned in the OnePkct rules.

The Derby City Classic has their own set of rules.

You can send your question in an email to cuesportsjournal@gmail.com and it might show up in the Sept issue, Ken Shuman has a monthly article "Ask the Ref"


id like to hear from steve
and wonder how to get in touch with ken shuman
 

NH Steve

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I agree with the OnePocket.org rules that it is covered by the WSR when not mentioned in the OnePkct rules.

The Derby City Classic has their own set of rules.

You can send your question in an email to cuesportsjournal@gmail.com and it might show up in the Sept issue, Ken Shuman has a monthly article "Ask the Ref"
You are right, Tom. The DCC goes with the full ball, not the base of the ball. I just looked it up in their rules. One thing I would like to point out is that even in their rules, it is in the "general rules" section of their rules -- applying to all DCC games, not just One Pocket:
Ball in the Kitchen: The “base of the ball” rule does not apply. To be playable, object balls must be completely out of the kitchen. The edge of the ball may not touch or overlap the head string even if the base of the ball is completely outside the kitchen. The decision of the referee is final.
I have found that most local rooms that I have been to tend to have fairly clear house traditions (if not rules) regarding base of ball versus whole ball. Still a very good question to ask of the tournament director or opponent. The rule basically does not matter either way as long as you both know the rule ahead of time -- it is only when the question comes up midgame that it is an issue.
 

gulfportdoc

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Then it's pretty clear what the rule is in various tournament situations. But the question that Frank and Steve have posed is the common quandary of the issue: What happens when it comes up in a private game, and it hasn't been settle prior to the contest?

In friendly games it's not going to amount to much. A guy says, "Oh, I always play the base of the ball." The other guy kids him, and says, "Okay, shoot".

And in most high dollar games, the contestants are savvy enough to cover that circumstance in their negotiations.

But in strange situations where guys are gambling, and haven't stipulated that issue, it could be trouble.:eek: Sometimes there are house rules-- probably at places where a lot of 1P is played, such as House of Billiards (Sta Monica), Buffalos (N.O.), Red Shoes (Chi), Hard Times (CA), or Runway (Mobile).

If there are no house rules, then I would say, "Both the WPA and onepocket.org use the base of the ball rule." That could settle it, unless the other guys says, "Yeah, but at the DCC they play the face of the ball!" Then you argue for awhile, and the guy who shouts the loudest might get his way. But the guy on the losing end of the situation should probably stick to his guns and demand a game nullification...:D

~Doc
hates it when
guns are drawn
 

Cary

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It seems to me....

It seems to me....

that the simplest way to establish rules in private matches would be to say "We'll play by onepocket.org rules" and go from there. Since those rules reference WPA rules for anything not included, (almost) everything would be covered. Any deviations from those rules would have to be negotiated in advance but it places the burden where it belongs---on the person it matters to and who WANTS the deviation for some reason.

I used to play poker fairly often with a "gentleman" who always made it a point to establish that were playing "according to Hoyle". He also carried an antique copy of "Hoyle" with him that listed straights as an optional hand that didn't count unless agreed upon before hand. Also listed as optional hands were "Big Tiger" and "Little Tiger" but damned if I can remember what they were. It pays to know the rules.
 
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