Learning to play Bank pool question

Dennis "Whitey" Young

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Hank,
Those cushions you are playing on are worn out, creating them to be extra sensitive. The drill lll gave you made this very evident.

I called Mueller, and at this time they do not provide offering new rail replacements.

I check with Ozone and you can get a pretty good cloth $80, and new K66 cushions $40, so for around $130. So check with Ozone and they can get you guys all set up.

Get a tin can and put in a quarter for each game played, and pretty soon you guys will have the funds. Or do something, you need a better playing table. Whitey
 

hankh

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Whitey, Howdy;

I've talked to the Quartermaster (financial boss), of the Post and he's in
agreement with me about getting both tables re-done and done right. Both
tables have their own line in the ledger book and they should be self-supporting.
But, ..... it's got to go through a committee :rolleyes:, before it can be acted on.

When I started getting back into pool a few years ago I also nosed around for
some of the support folks, cue maker/repair person, places to shoot, and
equipment supplies. Found a repair guy, and there are 2 places that do table
work. One is a guy that just makes rails for all the tables made, think he may
be the wholesale source for Ozone and a few others. The other is run by Olhausen,
actually one of the daughters. As for supplies I can get all that stuff online these days.

Actually, I think that by learning on this table(s), it might be helpful. By learning
on these I can be better able to adjust to other not-so-perfect tables that I'm
more likely to run across then 'perfect' tables, ... I think :confused:

hank
 

hankh

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Whitey & lll, Howdy;

Thursday was 9-ball day. Got set-up and started practicing the 5-Corner system
as recommended. Stayed with it for about an hour. Interesting results, I like it.
Played a few racks of 15 ball rotation for position practice and then the tourney.

We only had 7 players for this I just took it easy for the most part and payed
more attention to how the cue ball was moving around after hitting an object
ball. Where it was striking the rails and the paths it took to get to where it
ended up. I'm realizing that I need to pay more attention to where I strike
the CB and how hard I hit it. I got into doing more game play with Safeties.
Amazing how some folks react to a steady barrage of Safeties, especially
those that take their game much to seriously :heh .

lll and I have been having an interesting PM conversation and I'm realizing
that the the Diamond system is an excellent tool for kicking and Safety play
but for Banking I'm liking the Beard's system. Using one with the other
should be like the "Perfect Storm". But it's going to be a lot of work to
become proficient at both. I'm looking forward to this. It's gonna be fun :frus

Many thanks for the help, suggestions and thoughts from all.

hank

PS. I don't want this thread to die so if anyone has anything else to contribute PLEASE do so. Always eager to learn more.

hank
 

Dennis "Whitey" Young

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Hank, in working the diamond system when banking a ball multiple rails, I find it best to use natural english (running english) this makes the ob come off the first rail with a natural role, and it continues that throughout the other rails. This will become very evident when shooting the classical 3 railer in the corner.

This is straight from the book of McCready. If you pay attention to the way Keith addresses the ball, he is very deliberate, all of his time on the shot is before he ever goes down on the ball. He sees the whole shot, what english to use, what position he wants, and what speed to stroke it before he ever goes down on the shot. Once down, two to three strokes and fires the ball in.

This is what I would like you to do. 'Be very deliberate', and take your time before going down on the shot, check the angle, decide you english and speed. Then once down on the shot; One Stroke It, not two strokes, One Stroke. This does not give you a chance to let your mind change your mind.
Also;
This will tell you your tendency (hitting it fat or thin) for going down on that particular shot. Once executed, and if you miss the whole pocket, redo it again and again until you figure out how to go down on the shot to hit the hole.

Your the kind of guy that can over think the shot, so do your thinking before you go down on the shot. So break a full rack of balls and go to work on it, by One Stroking It!
I just One Stroke a few racks of banks, and it felt great! Whitey
 

hankh

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Whitey, Howdy;

Hank, in working the diamond system when banking a ball multiple rails, I find it best to use natural english (running english) this makes the ob come off the first rail with a natural role, and it continues that throughout the other rails. This will become very evident when shooting the classical 3 railer in the corner.

This is straight from the book of McCready. If you pay attention to the way Keith addresses the ball, he is very deliberate, all of his time on the shot is before he ever goes down on the ball. He sees the whole shot, what english to use, what position he wants, and what speed to stroke it before he ever goes down on the shot. Once down, two to three strokes and fires the ball in.

This is what I would like you to do. 'Be very deliberate', and take your time before going down on the shot, check the angle, decide you english and speed. Then once down on the shot; One Stroke It, not two strokes, One Stroke. This does not give you a chance to let your mind change your mind.
Also;
This will tell you your tendency (hitting it fat or thin) for going down on that particular shot. Once executed, and if you miss the whole pocket, redo it again and again until you figure out how to go down on the shot to hit the hole.

Your the kind of guy that can over think the shot, so do your thinking before you go down on the shot. So break a full rack of balls and go to work on it, by One Stroking It!
I just One Stroke a few racks of banks, and it felt great! Whitey
Yea, I do tend to analyze stuff a bit, but I have learned that in pool it's not the
best way to find happiness. I generally only stroke 2 or 3 times after my mind's
made up. Perhaps I didn't land 'xactly where I felt I should be, didn't look right
from the down position. I get up re-check my alignment and if it all looks good ... re-do it.
I figure most folks that spend a lot of time are trying to say "Look at me, I'm
good because I take so long that you Have to look at ME!" that's
my opinion and it only matters to me. I attempt to stick to the "Think long, think
wrong school.

I will take your advise and give it a good try. See how I do and will get back with ya.
Tomorrow is free pool and I need to put the truck in the shop so, I'll be there at least 5 or
6 hours, time to try a few things and the 1 stroke will be first. After all, if I'm not hitting it
correctly nuttin' else matters.

Thanks for the thoughts, suggestions and help.

hank
 

hankh

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Whitey, Howdy;

Took your advise, tried the mind meld then down and 1 stroke it. Kept missing
to the Right. Sometimes a whole pocket width, other times less and would
rattle the jar but the ball would drop. Reckon I'm hitting a bit to the Right of
center ball :confused:, I missed by a greater amount on longer shots. I did
this for about an hour then went back to my usual 3-5 swings so I'd be comfortable
doing my new to me work-out routine.
\/ \/ \/

I also worked the side-to-side twisting drill, Corner-5 and then some 15 ball
rotation followed by a few racks of short rack banks. Overall, about 4-4.5 hours.

Thanks for the drill, I'm likein' it, shows me a deficiency that needs work.
Reckon I'll need to do some of Dr. Dave's MOUFUDAT drill;
https://billiards.colostate.edu/bd_articles/2008/sept08.pdf with 1 stroke

Thanks again, much appreciated as always.

hank
 

Dennis "Whitey" Young

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Hank, I had a student that would over think shots, go up and down, and so forth. I got him to be deliberate before he went down on the shot and I only allowed 3 strokes, and never get up off of the shot. He did better. Once the lessons stopped he went back to his bad habits, and there were a lot of them.

But now you have found a pattern, and your tendency is to miss to the right. So you are coming down on the shot wrong. Next time correct it on each bank. Other words keep banking it tell you hit the hole. 1 stroking keeps your mind out of the equation. I believe it will take you quite a few racks to get this down, but I think it just might work for you at this point, because of your over thinking tendency.

Just remember since you are pattern missing to right then that can be corrected to pattern hit the hole. Goal is try to hit the pocket, not necessarily make it, this is a very high goal in and of itself. You should feel very good about yourself in just hitting the pocket, let alone making it. This is a personal goal of mine at this stage.

I just played 4 full racks of being deliberate and then down and 1 stroke banks, and there were a few shots I missed the same way, but I stayed with it and corrected it. It was very good to realize that on some shots I am coming down on it wrong. I am liking it, and am banking pretty good with this method.

Actually this thread is getting me back into banking! thanks Hank for the thread. I hope some of my suggestions are helping. Whitey
 

hankh

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Whitey, Howdy;

"Actually this thread is getting me back into banking! thanks Hank for the thread. I
hope some of my suggestions are helping. Whitey"

Yup, between you and Larry, I think I'm about to get my feet on the ground
with this Banking stuff. I was even able to connect a 3-railer Kick shot 2
diamonds up from the corners today using the Corner-5 system. Didn't sink it
but hit it square.

I have both of the Beard's Books and the DVDs that go with them. Watching the
videos and making notes in the books. Once I feel I understand what I'm watching
and taking notes about I'll drag the books down for to practice with. EDIT TO ADD;
Then back to the videos, notes, ... wash, rinse, repeat ...

In the mean time I'll keep working on the One Stroke that is, as it appears, a
very nice way to troubleshoot any problems that might show up with stroke, sighting,
stance, all the Basic stuff. A useful tool to help find the weak points so we can correct
them and make a stronger foundation.

Have I told you guys lately THANK YOU for the thoughts and help. This stuff ain't
easy and it surely helps to have some knowledgeable folks to help out.

Sincerely;

hank
 
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hankh

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Whitey, Howdy;

Had some time today before our little 9-ball tourney to get some practice in.
What I found was I was lining-up a bit (body), to the Right and striking the CB
a tad off to the left of where I needed to. Shot 3 or 4 racks of 15 ball rotation
using the 1 swing method. Better, but still a work in progress. Monday will be
more the Banks practice as well as some more 1 stroke to get my alignment to
where it needs to be.

I'll keep ya posted, thanks for your thoughts and suggestions.

hank
 

Dennis "Whitey" Young

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Whitey, Howdy;

Had some time today before our little 9-ball tourney to get some practice in.
What I found was I was lining-up a bit (body), to the Right and striking the CB
a tad off to the left of where I needed to. Shot 3 or 4 racks of 15 ball rotation
using the 1 swing method. Better, but still a work in progress. Monday will be
more the Banks practice as well as some more 1 stroke to get my alignment to
where it needs to be.

I'll keep ya posted, thanks for your thoughts and suggestions.

hank
I like playing rotation also! Sounds like you did pretty good 1 stroking, excellent! That means your coming down on the shot well, deliberations is going well, and seeing the shot before your going down is coming along well.

That is a great discovery that you made about coming down on the shot to the right and stroking to the left.
I had that with a student. He lined up on the shot way off to make the ob, but put a lot of inside english and thus push the cb to make the shot that way. This is approx. a foot to a foot and half distance to the ob. A cb will push more in short distances.
I did not realize this until I got in front of the shot and looked back at him. I never seen anything like it. He was literally aiming a 1/4 to a 1/2 ball off.

But in your case, being deliberate and then 1 stroking, still means making sure you are contacting the cb where you want it. We are not going that fast, whereas you miss a step in the shot process.

I am 1 stroking banks daily, and it is coming along nicely also, as long as I am being deliberate. And like you, it is a work in progress.

We'll get into the use of english one of these days, if that is an issue with you.
Whitey
 

hankh

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Whitey, Howdy;

Today is 8-ball, my friend Tony (91 yo) shows up early so we can shoot a few
games before the rest show-up. He likes his Bank shots as well. Blind (almost),
in 1 eye, difficult to see outta the other, deaf in 1 ear. Before he
had his stroke, he was one of the top players in this area and he's still a fairly
'sporty' player. Chuckle. Reckon there's hope for us all.

I can continue with the 1 stroke while I play the warm-ups but I tend to revert to
my usual 3-4 strokes when it comes to the tourney. Noticed that I wasn't missing
as much Thurs. So, my alignment is coming into where it's supposed to be. I know,
baby steps not giant strides.

Good to hear that you are getting back into something you enjoy (Banks).

Thanks for the thoughts and suggestions.

hank
 

hankh

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Whitey, Howdy;

Well, no win, place or show for me yesterday. Tony showed up and we had our
practice/warm-up games. I stuck with the 1 swing and got closer to being in
proper stance and stroke. Also found that if I increase my back-swing pause to
a 1,2 count things end up better.
During the tourney I decided to stick with the 1 swing. I was matched up with
one of the better shooters and just messed with his head. He is one of those
that thinks his game is good enough to ______ (fill in the blank). So, I kept
rearranging the table by mostly shooting defensive shots and leaving him
Hooked. Sunk 5 of mine (using bank shots), before he dropped the 8 . He walked
away muttering to himself. I had fun and was able to consider that as a bonus
practice session.

I remember reading somewhere, book, forum, YouTube title ... I dunno, but
the words remain and I have to stop and say them out loud in my head when
ever I start thinkin' after I've gotten down behind the CB, they are;
"the brain is a lousy pool player. let it do the planing and the muscles do the
playing." I may have modified the last bit, but I use it as a sort of mantra.

Thanks again for your thoughts and suggestions.

hank
 

Dennis "Whitey" Young

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Hank, as per your previous post and this one, I want to clarify the 1 stroke. It is meant for you to practice coming down on the shot properly, and to eliminate thoughts in your head when you are down on the shot.

In accordance with your previous post whereas you stated that you still were using 2 to 3 strokes in the tournament, that is perfect. What ever works best for you. Tournament is different than practice.

Players like McCready and Earl can shoot within 3 strokes because of not only being deliberate before the shot, but also because they play so much. The more you play the quicker you see the shot and the less strokes it 'should' take before you pull the trigger.

But, it sounds like you sure had a lot of fun playing that guy. I believe you have come along ways since you first started this thread, and your banks have picked up.

I also play 'speed pool' to make me come down on the shot properly. Whitey
 

hankh

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Whitey, Howdy;

Practice went well today. Did the up an back (lagging), long ways and sideways,
some Corner-5 shots, not all from the corner. I want to and feel I need to see
where else the diamonds connect. Both for corners and sides pockets as well. I
also like to grab 6 balls from the trough and scatter them then try to run out.
Now I've added banking into the mix. :D . Lots of fun that is. Then into the full
rack rotation. Spent a good solid 4 hours there today. Had a few 3 ball Bank runs
and a lot more 1 Bank an done.
Alignment is improving, not so many misses to the Right. I do a short pause at
the back end of my swing. Did it years ago and am just getting it back into place.
This 1 swing bit is helping me find it again. Thanks also for that.

Tomorrow is our Tue. 8-Ball Not sure how I'm gonna play it. that decision
will depend on who's there and how I feel.

As always, thanks for the thoughts and suggestions.

hank
 

hankh

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lll, Howdy;

:lol . Thanks, don't recollect anyone ever cheering for me before.

hank
 

hankh

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Whitey & lll, Howdy;

Yesterday was a good day. Tony showed up and we shot our warm-up
games and he likes to do banks as well.
These aren't anything close to big tourneys, maybe 8 to 10 or 12 folks, single rack
double elimination. The guy I gave a difficult time to on Sat. was there but
he went out early. I lost one game early but hung around till the end. ended up
needing to win 2 against one of the best shooters in our VFW. We played both as
I won the first and it came down to a long straight back for me and he was already
on the 8. Made the bank and ended up with a shallow angle cut for the win. Made
the cut. :D

In every game that I played I was able to shoot at least 1 sometimes 3 or 4
Banks, my average is nearer to 25% (1:4), then 20% (1:5), so I'm thinkin'
not bad, could be better.

As always, Thanks guys, your help and suggestions are gratefully appreciated.

hank
 

Dennis "Whitey" Young

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Hank, This long distance coaching has been quite an experience and quite an experiment. Credit to you for asking for help, and taking the information to heart and working through it.
I think your avg. in banking is really good. Take time to watch DCC banks and you'll realize that if a player avg. 1 ball/inning/tournament they either win the tournament or definitely be in the money. Some matches 1/2 a ball/inning would win the match. Of course there are some matches whereas a guy makes 3 balls or so, and then you have to match him.
Great Win, great news! Whitey
 

Mkbtank

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Learning to play Bank pool question

You go, Hank! Keep it up and we are going to start calling you “Hank the Bank!”
 

hankh

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Whitey, Howdy;

I think you are misunderstanding me. What I'm trying to convey is that in several
innings of a singular rack of 8-ball I am able to drop 1:4 attempts at a Bank shot,
not all at once. I'd like to and want to, but not quite yet ... ;), :lol.

I am also enjoying this long range tutelage. Sometimes the point goes by without
notice but the second time 'round hits the mark. That's with stuff flying in both
directions ...

I like the format, you send out some info. and I have a chance to mull it over,
ponder it awhile then go mix it into the practice routine and see what gets spit-out
at the end of practice. Then I send some info back to you, and you try to figure out
what I'm trying to say, we iron out any misunderstandings and you give forth with
another nugget of info for me to ponder ... wash, rinse, & repeat. It's fun this way
and basically that's what it's supposed to be ... fun.

Tomorrow is 9-ball, so I get another 2 hours to practice before the tourney starts.
Lookin' forward to it :D.

Thanks for the thoughts and suggestions, as always.

hank
 
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