kicking to the top of the ball

John Brumback

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You didn't ruffle my feathers at all. I just wanted to point out that to hear you talk, you appear to me to come from the instinct or trial and error side of the continuum, and that I will wager that most new players shorten their learning curve with kicking systems. Hell, just knowing the Corner Five system will help you out tremendously.

Difference between a method and a system? Dunno, depends on exactly what your method is, I suppose. Perhaps you can tell me all your secrets and then I can make a ruling;)
Thanks Dan,for the food for thought.:) John B.
 

LSJohn

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I understand all of that and it even makes sense:p

Only one problem though...I have never in my life used a diamond to help me with a pool shot :eek: :lol John B.
I figured that once you picked your aim point on the first rail you identified it relative to one of the two closest diamonds to hold the aim-point in your mind while you got down on the shot. That's what I do and it doesn't work worth a shit for me... maybe because I haven't given that "practice" system of yours a fair chance. :eek: :)
 

petie

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As far as 3-rail kicks and 1 rail for that matter, by know I am just repeating stuff I think I know. When I was young I read about a few systems but have not actively used them in game situations. My knowledge of 3 rail kicks comes from fiddling around, as I'm sure we all have, hitting the ball 3 rails to see what works. Its easy enough to hit parallel to a successful path or to duplicate that same angle when you are shooting from farther up or down the rail. I have toyed with picking a spot on the wall when it was possible. This works too. I think I will try to relearn a couple of systems just to increase accuracy on key shots like 'top of ball.' Larry was a great help for me on this.
 

lll

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LS John (inferentially) makes a good point - how do you go about aiming at three-rail kick *without* using a system of some sort?
dan
i think it goes back to
do you use numbers (system)
or do you just "see the angle "(method)
brief story
there was a recent 9 ball one day /one pocket the next day tourney near me in jacksonville
in the room they had a billiard table and some of the pros on their down time were playing billiards
one pro attending the tourney who is a former us open 9 ball champ
was studying a layout trying to figure out how to make the billiard
another pro said just hit 6 (diamond number)
the us open champ said "i dont know that stuff" (paraphrased)
similar situation with another very well known elite 9 ball player
so to answer your question top level players can hit a 3 rail kick by "seeing the angle and not aiming at a number on the rail
my .02 cents
 

John Brumback

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I figured that once you picked your aim point on the first rail you identified it relative to one of the two closest diamonds to hold the aim-point in your mind while you got down on the shot. That's what I do and it doesn't work worth a shit for me... maybe because I haven't given that "practice" system of yours a fair chance. :eek: :)
Hell no!!! Like I said!!! I have never looked at or used a diamond to help me make a pool shot in my entire life!!! :) JB

PS: you should quit using them old diamonds and maybe practice a few minutes ever now and then.....:p
 

John Brumback

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As far as 3-rail kicks and 1 rail for that matter, by know I am just repeating stuff I think I know. When I was young I read about a few systems but have not actively used them in game situations. My knowledge of 3 rail kicks comes from fiddling around, as I'm sure we all have, hitting the ball 3 rails to see what works. Its easy enough to hit parallel to a successful path or to duplicate that same angle when you are shooting from farther up or down the rail. I have toyed with picking a spot on the wall when it was possible. This works too. I think I will try to relearn a couple of systems just to increase accuracy on key shots like 'top of ball.' Larry was a great help for me on this.
The "FIDDLING AROUND SYSTEM" Is the best, imho. John B.
 

John Brumback

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LS John (inferentially) makes a good point - how do you go about aiming at three-rail kick *without* using a system of some sort?
Easy,I use a method of some sort:lol John B.

No really, I just play them by feel and memory from practice,Oh and every table plays different it seems so that's why I don't want to rely on any system.
 
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lll

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As far as 3-rail kicks and 1 rail for that matter, by know I am just repeating stuff I think I know. When I was young I read about a few systems but have not actively used them in game situations. My knowledge of 3 rail kicks comes from fiddling around, as I'm sure we all have, hitting the ball 3 rails to see what works. Its easy enough to hit parallel to a successful path or to duplicate that same angle when you are shooting from farther up or down the rail. I have toyed with picking a spot on the wall when it was possible. This works too. I think I will try to relearn a couple of systems just to increase accuracy on key shots like 'top of ball.' Larry was a great help for me on this.
petie thanks for the thank you....:)
those interested in systems can always pm me
i may not play great but i am a student of the game and am happy to help/share the knowledge stuff
 

1pwannabe

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Hell no!!! Like I said!!! I have never looked at or used a diamond to help me make a pool shot in my entire life!!! :) JB

PS: you should quit using them old diamonds and maybe practice a few minutes ever now and then.....:p
This is an age old "fountain of youth" type myth. No system exists that will account for all the variables at any given time. I can measure out a bank or kick shot here in the deep south and 2 hours later it won't behave the same due to changes in humidity and temperature. Every table has different cloth, rails, dirt, etc. and I won't even go into the variance with balls.

John is right, you have to feel it after a few shots to see how the table behaves. Then as things change, you have to adapt. Instead of looking for shortcuts, just go practice banking.

Here's one system that works, HAMB (Hit a Million Balls)
 

lll

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This is an age old "fountain of youth" type myth. No system exists that will account for all the variables at any given time. I can measure out a bank or kick shot here in the deep south and 2 hours later it won't behave the same due to changes in humidity and temperature. Every table has different cloth, rails, dirt, etc. and I won't even go into the variance with balls.

John is right, you have to feel it after a few shots to see how the table behaves. Then as things change, you have to adapt. Instead of looking for shortcuts, just go practice banking.

Here's one system that works, HAMB (Hit a Million Balls)
thats a good system
here is another one for pocketing balls
P.I.I.T.H. ..........(put it in the hole)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_q4jEPmHFa8
 

John Brumback

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This is an age old "fountain of youth" type myth. No system exists that will account for all the variables at any given time. I can measure out a bank or kick shot here in the deep south and 2 hours later it won't behave the same due to changes in humidity and temperature. Every table has different cloth, rails, dirt, etc. and I won't even go into the variance with balls.

John is right, you have to feel it after a few shots to see how the table behaves. Then as things change, you have to adapt. Instead of looking for shortcuts, just go practice banking.

Here's one system that works, HAMB (Hit a Million Balls)
That's what I keep thinking too. I guess if you only play on one table your whole life a system might work....................unless the weather changes,then you will have to adjust:eek::lol John B.
 

lll

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This is an age old "fountain of youth" type myth. No system exists that will account for all the variables at any given time. I can measure out a bank or kick shot here in the deep south and 2 hours later it won't behave the same due to changes in humidity and temperature. Every table has different cloth, rails, dirt, etc. and I won't even go into the variance with balls.

John is right, you have to feel it after a few shots to see how the table behaves. Then as things change, you have to adapt. Instead of looking for shortcuts, just go practice banking.

Here's one system that works, HAMB (Hit a Million Balls)
thats very true
but once you know how the table plays you adjust
ie based on how short or long the table is playing you adjust your aim point
feel /method players and system players will always say their way is right/best
really what happens and what dan alluded to is this
the rookie who has no clue how to go around the table learns the corner 5
now he has a target that will get him in the neighborhood of hitting his target 3 rails away
he practices this and over time his subconscious learns the near misses and what needs to be corrected
eventually he uses the system to give him an orientation
and since i just saw star wars ...:)
he uses the force to "fiddle"/adjust for his final aim /how much english to use
decision of how to hit it
this has saved him countless hours of time to find the general pattern of the 3 cushion shot by trial and error
there definitely is no substitute for table time
because you cant teach experience and perfect practice makes perfect
jmho
icbw
john your thoughts please
 

John Brumback

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thats very true
but once you know how the table plays you adjust
ie based on how short or long the table is playing you adjust your aim point
feel /method players and system players will always say their way is right/best
really what happens and what dan alluded to is this
the rookie who has no clue how to go around the table learns the corner 5
now he has a target that will get him in the neighborhood of hitting his target 3 rails away
he practices this and over time his subconscious learns the near misses and what needs to be corrected
eventually he uses the system to give him an orientation
and since i just saw star wars ...:)
he uses the force to "fiddle"/adjust for his final aim /how much english to use
decision of how to hit it
this has saved him countless hours of time to find the general pattern of the 3 cushion shot by trial and error
there definitely is no substitute for table time
because you cant teach experience and perfect practice makes perfect
jmho
icbw
john your thoughts please
:sorry Larry,I'm not buying it. I will always think that learning the "method" for (the shot at hand) will be stronger to learn,than some system,even for a first timer. Larry,what diff does it make when you adjust?!! I hate to break this to ya Larry ol buddy,but playing pool is about "(NOTHING BUT ADJUSTING")!!!:lol John

PS: next meal is on me.....
 

lll

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:sorry Larry,I'm not buying it. I will always think that learning the "method" for (the shot at hand) will be stronger to learn,than some system,even for a first timer. Larry,what diff does it make when you adjust?!! I hate to break this to ya Larry ol buddy,but playing pool is about "(NOTHING BUT ADJUSTING")!!!:lol John

PS: next meal is on me.....
john
we are buddies so you dont have to be sorry to set me straight..:)
tough love is ok ...:D
cant wait to see you hopefully this summer.....:)
p.s. a 5 dollar foot long subway would be a great for dinner for me....:D
 

John Brumback

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john
we are buddies so you dont have to be sorry to set me straight..:)
tough love is ok ...:D
cant wait to see you hopefully this summer.....:)
p.s. a 5 dollar foot long subway would be a great for dinner for me....:D
I like subway:lol I have to say That I'm not setting you straight. Everything That I say or think is jmho:D Hope to get down there one of these years:eek: John B.
 

John Brumback

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This is an age old "fountain of youth" type myth. No system exists that will account for all the variables at any given time. I can measure out a bank or kick shot here in the deep south and 2 hours later it won't behave the same due to changes in humidity and temperature. Every table has different cloth, rails, dirt, etc. and I won't even go into the variance with balls.

John is right, you have to feel it after a few shots to see how the table behaves. Then as things change, you have to adapt. Instead of looking for shortcuts, just go practice banking.

Here's one system that works, HAMB (Hit a Million Balls)
I vote for this ( 1pwannabe's post) to be one of them sticky things.

I'm sure it will save a lot of headaches over the years. John B.
 

1pwannabe

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I like subway:lol I have to say That I'm not setting you straight. Everything That I say or think is jmho:D Hope to get down there one of these years:eek: John B.
I tend to use common sense with stuff like this. IF there were one system that truly worked, and it were pretty easy to teach, wouldn't we all already know it? Wouldn't it be common knowledge by now after close to 100 years, and untold millions of people playing billiards type games?

This isn't UFO's or bigfoot, it's pool...and we wouldn't even be having this discussion if such a system existed.
 

John Brumback

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I tend to use common sense with stuff like this. IF there were one system that truly worked, and it were pretty easy to teach, wouldn't we all already know it? Wouldn't it be common knowledge by now after close to 100 years, and untold millions of people playing billiards type games?

This isn't UFO's or bigfoot, it's pool...and we wouldn't even be having this discussion if such a system existed.
Another sticky thing!!! :lol Well said,imo. John B.
 

1pwannabe

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I vote for this ( 1pwannabe's post) to be one of them sticky things.

I'm sure it will save a lot of headaches over the years. John B.
I watched your finals match with Shannon at the Derby last year, the table changed completely and banks that worked earlier were all a hair off. The commentators theorized it was the lights that had warmed up the table after a while...but who knows. If we flip on the A/C at our pool hall everyone in the place starts missing balls left and right and balls start rattling in the pockets.

Too many variables to count, much less calculate.
 
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