Joyner/frost

androd

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I'd try to put the CB here, off the 1 ball if I could hit it, off the 8 ball if not.
Rod.
 

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Frank Almanza

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androd said:
I'd try to put the CB here, off the 1 ball if I could hit it, off the 8 ball if not.
Rod.
Rod, if you did that you'll have to guard against him from playing the carom off the two (four?) and banking the eight into his hole and sticking the cue ball there. The two will travel to the stack. He might make the eight and be off to the races. Not much risk for him there.

If it's possible I would just kick softly behind the three if there was and alley to that. Or kick bank it to my side.
 

androd

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Frank Almanza said:
Rod, if you did that you'll have to guard against him from playing the carom off the two (four?) and banking the eight into his hole and sticking the cue ball there. The two will travel to the stack. He might make the eight and be off to the races. Not much risk for him there.

If it's possible I would just kick softly behind the three if there was and alley to that. Or kick bank it to my side.
Yeah Frank, whatever anyone does here the next shot they'll be in trouble deeper. In real life I might try to saw/spin the solid closest to the pocket in and try to (get lucky) clean the 3 ball outta there. :p
Rod.
 

petie

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Frank Almanza said:
Rod, if you did that you'll have to guard against him from playing the carom off the two (four?) and banking the eight into his hole and sticking the cue ball there. The two will travel to the stack. He might make the eight and be off to the races. Not much risk for him there.

If it's possible I would just kick softly behind the three if there was and alley to that. Or kick bank it to my side.
The soft kick will leave you vulnerable to Rod's favorite move--putting you on the other side of the stack. I like cutting the solid in if it goes like Rod. Can't tell if it does from here.
 

wincardona

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This looks like one of those situations where it can only get worse for the shooter if he doesn't do something risky now. The balls aren't really laying in a good ball running position for Frost the way their positioned, so now is the time to take a chance, before their positioned better for Frost. I would try to eliminate the 3 ball positioned in front of Frost's pocket by kicking three cushions at the 3 ball. Once the 3 ball is eliminated your chances of escaping this position is much better. But you must first start with eliminating the 3 ball. A little risky but it doesn't look like it's going to get better for Joyner if he doesn't do something really quick.

It may be a little more of a gamble than some may want to take but if you don't take it now i'm afraid that the next time you get back at the table you'll wish you had.

Billy I.
 

wincardona

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wincardona said:
This looks like one of those situations where it can only get worse for the shooter if he doesn't do something risky now. The balls aren't really laying in a good ball running position for Frost the way their positioned, so now is the time to take a chance, before their positioned better for Frost. I would try to eliminate the 3 ball positioned in front of Frost's pocket by kicking three cushions at the 3 ball. Once the 3 ball is eliminated your chances of escaping this position is much better. But you must first start with eliminating the 3 ball. A little risky but it doesn't look like it's going to get better for Joyner if he doesn't do something really quick.

It may be a little more of a gamble than some may want to take but if you don't take it now i'm afraid that the next time you get back at the table you'll wish you had.

Billy I.
Another option would be (if available) to cut the 2 ball in and go into the 3 ball with the cue ball. A strong shot maker would eat that shot up and possibly turn the game around.

Billy I.
 

fred bentivegna

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Good line of reasoning...

Good line of reasoning...

wincardona said:
This looks like one of those situations where it can only get worse for the shooter if he doesn't do something risky now. The balls aren't really laying in a good ball running position for Frost the way their positioned, so now is the time to take a chance, before their positioned better for Frost. I would try to eliminate the 3 ball positioned in front of Frost's pocket by kicking three cushions at the 3 ball. Once the 3 ball is eliminated your chances of escaping this position is much better. But you must first start with eliminating the 3 ball. A little risky but it doesn't look like it's going to get better for Joyner if he doesn't do something really quick.

It may be a little more of a gamble than some may want to take but if you don't take it now i'm afraid that the next time you get back at the table you'll wish you had.


Billy I.
One of the hardest things for a onepocket player to do, is to have enough nerve to take a low percentage shot -- when confronted with a desperate situation. What they usually fail to realize is that often times it is best to go ahead and take a shot with no guarantee for success, in lieu of hesitating and winding up with a situation with a guarantee of certain failure.

Next, even if a player decides to go ahead and take the flyer he usually does it with the trepidation proportionately associated with the realistic, limited chance of success. Why? Why would anyone do that? Being fearful and anxious certainly couldnt improve your chances. If you are going to shoot a give-up shot, approach it with the attitude that it is the right thing to do, and flush the worry into the toilet. Damn the torpedoes! Full speed ahead!
Or as Shakespeare put it, "If rape is inevitable, relax and enjoy it."

Beard

Also, cutting the 2 ball, if it is even possible is also a good option that follows the above line of reasoning.
 

wincardona

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wincardona said:
Another option would be (if available) to cut the 2 ball in and go into the 3 ball with the cue ball. A strong shot maker would eat that shot up and possibly turn the game around.

Billy I.
Oops, sorry Rod I hadn't noticed until now that you suggested that shot.:eek:

Billy I.
 

Frank Almanza

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kick bank.JPG If there is room I would do this. It looks like it can be done without disturbing the other balls near his pocket.
 

androd

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wincardona said:
Oops, sorry Rod I hadn't noticed until now that you suggested that shot.:eek:

Billy I.
I'm reluctant to recommend those at first cause I'm such a gofer. LOL
Welcome back ! speaking of back I hope yours is better. :)
Rod.
 

SJDinPHX

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I think, in that spot, you would have to put a gun to my head, to keep me from going for the 2 ball..It may require a little draw to keep from scratching off the 3 (can't tell)..But so be it...Its better than being in worse trouble, when Scott buries you in the stack..:cool:

PS..I agree with whoever said "Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead"...:eek:
 
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Frank Almanza

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Frank Almanza said:
View attachment 3660 If there is room I would do this. It looks like it can be done without disturbing the other balls near his pocket.
I'm officially retracting this option. I tried it a few time and could not get away from hitting the other balls. It would only be done the way I pictured it if the cue ball was farther up table to start with.
However when I tried to kick bank the three to my side and ran into the other balls it only sold out about a fourth of the time but never when I didn't play the shot with too much speed. The extra speed caused the cue ball to follow through the other balls too far.
I, like some others here, also would prefer to cut the two if it could be done and if I was confident of beating the scratch.
 

Rod

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Its hard to tell from this view but my first thought was to bank the two ball into the balls on the bottom rail. Then send the CB up table on Scott's side.
Another option is shoot the two off the bottom rail into the three. Then use draw to kill the CB on the other side of the balls on the bottom rail.

All we can do is guess from this angle but cutting the two that thin looks like a scratch.

Rod
 

wincardona

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fred bentivegna said:
One of the hardest things for a onepocket player to do, is to have enough nerve to take a low percentage shot -- when confronted with a desperate situation. What they usually fail to realize is that often times it is best to go ahead and take a shot with no guarantee for success, in lieu of hesitating and winding up with a situation with a guarantee of certain failure.

Next, even if a player decides to go ahead and take the flyer he usually does it with the trepidation proportionately associated with the realistic, limited chance of success. Why? Why would anyone do that? Being fearful and anxious certainly couldnt improve your chances. If you are going to shoot a give-up shot, approach it with the attitude that it is the right thing to do, and flush the worry into the toilet. Damn the torpedoes! Full speed ahead!
Or as Shakespeare put it, "If rape is inevitable, relax and enjoy it."

Beard

Also, cutting the 2 ball, if it is even possible is also a good option that follows the above line of reasoning.
I really enjoyed your post Fred, and you summed it up perfectly especially the part about the torpedoes.:D

Bottom line, believe in what you do and your results will be favorable.;)

By the way Rod my back seems to be getting better, at least today.:cool:

Billy I.
 

lll

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androd said:
In real life I might try to saw/spin the solid closest to the pocket in and try to (get lucky) clean the 3 ball outta there. :p
Rod.
well rod it was real life and thats what joyner did.
you get a cookie:)
for me from the angle of the screen i didnt think the cut was possible
joyner not only shot at the 2 but hit it at warp speed
the cue ball caromed into the 3 and jumped up landing near the corner a spinning like crazy
the 3 ricocheted off the rail into the 5 ball and i guess that was dead because the 5 went in:eek:
cliff left himself like this but missed the combo on the 6:( :mad:
jj2.jpg

jj3.jpg
 

wincardona

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Cutting the 2 ball was the correct shot, he must have hit the bottom cushion after striking the 2 ball, than went into 3 ball. Cliff's an excellent shot maker and choosing the 2 ball as thoe option of choice was never a question, as you can clearly see the results.;)

If Scott can't pocket the 10 ball I like banking the 7 ball into the 6 ball with inside english to avoid contacting the 3 ball:eek: ;) and than send the cue ball one cushion back toward the side pocket on Joyners side of the table.
Playing a top player you don't want to leave the cue ball near the foot rail unless you have protection, like positioning the cue ball behind another ball. They have the skills to make difficult bank shots while controlling the cue ball, so as a defense I like traveling further uptable (like I suggested) with the cue ball not allowing them to pull off any game winning shots.



Billy I.
 
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lll

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wincardona said:
Cutting the 2 ball was the correct shot, he must have hit the bottom cushion after striking the 2 ball, than went into 3 ball. Cliff's an excellent shot maker and choosing the 2 ball as thoe option of choice was never a question, as you can clearly see the results.;)

If Scott can't pocket the 10 ball I like banking the 7 ball into the 6 ball with inside english to avoid contacting the 3 ball:eek: ;) and than send the cue ball one cushion back toward the side pocket on Joyners side of the table.
Playing a top player you don't want to leave the cue ball near the foot rail unless you have protection, like positioning the cue ball behind another ball. They have the skills to make difficult bank shots while controlling the cue ball, so as a defense I like traveling further uptable (like I suggested) with the cue ball not allowing them to pull off any game winning shots.



Billy I.
good call billy
heres what scott shot
jj6.jpg
 
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