Josh Roberts vs Mike Davis WWYD

gulfportdoc

Verified Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2004
Messages
9,620
This is a tough situation to be in. I don't see any home run shots that could turn the tables in one inning. I wouldn't open up the stack in any way. My shot would be to hit the ten ball thin on its left side and freeze the cue ball on the side rail as close to the side pocket as is possible. If possible let him look only at the ten ball and make him try to come up with some shot where he leaves me in the stack which I think would be hard to do. Like I always say, make him keep the heat on me if he can. There are always intentional scratches available. Lastly, you just have to be patient playing one pocket as no body is perfect in keeping the heat on every shot.
Jerry, I might be misunderstanding your shot, but if the shooter thins the 10 and leaves the CB on the side rail, why wouldn't the opponent then simply shoot the 10 into the stack, moving even more balls in front of his hole?

~Doc
 

LSJohn

Verified Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2013
Messages
7,798
Jerry, I might be misunderstanding your shot, but if the shooter thins the 10 and leaves the CB on the side rail, why wouldn't the opponent then simply shoot the 10 into the stack, moving even more balls in front of his hole?

~Doc
He might kick something loose that gives you a good option. Also, I've heard some smart people say that moving more balls toward your pocket can be a disadvantage as well as an advantage if you already have a favorable layout with balls near it. How good or bad it might be here is anyone's guess unless there is specific ball-movement that you think you can predict.

I don't think I'd mind my opponent blasting the 10 into the stack from there. My $.02.
 

Jeff sparks

Verified Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2015
Messages
2,936
Jeff, the down side to your shot is that if you will have given your opponent the option to shoot at the three. The only reason to shoot the three would be if he liked the possibilities and had confidence in the outcome. If he didn't like it he would have a few other things he could do which have no risk and yet keep you in the doghouse. Either way, you are giving up good choices to your opponent and the only way you benefit is if he dogs it bad.

Tom
Yep,
He has the option of pocketing the 3 ball, and I'm hoping he shoots it, I don't even care if he makes it. To me it's a sucker shot, if he makes it... he gets one ball... If he misses it, he's given up his position and very possibly given up a good shot and quite possibly several balls.

Now if he decides he doesn't like that shot and wants to keep me trapped, the only other option I can see from up table between the 1st & 2nd diamonds near the joint is rolling on the 10 ball, trying to move it over. I don't believe he's got anything good trying to slide off the stack or move anything to his side out of the stack. I might be overlooking something, I do it all the time, if you see other options please point them out...

Thanks Tom
 

LSJohn

Verified Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2013
Messages
7,798
if you see other options please point them out...

Thanks Tom
If I'm visualizing the ball positions correctly, can't he comfortably shoot-and-stick on the 10 if he turns down the 3? (I think I must be seein the 3's path toward his pocket differently that some of you. I'm seeing a full pocket -- or nearly so -- and a "free" rhe roll of the CB to the neighborhood of straight-in on the 7, which doesn't go, but gives him more choices.)
 

Tom Wirth

Verified Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2004
Messages
2,604
Sending the cue ball up table provides your opponent options that can only hurt you further. Whether it be sliding off the ten, banking it three rails (side rail-foot rail-head rail), driving the six-seven combo three rails and sticking the cue ball, rolling softly into the six, leaving the cue ball nestled in the stack while sending the seven safely to the foot rail. or shooting the three, if it provides additional shots. Any one of these options are guaranteed to add to your problems.

Escaping one of these traps and eventually winning this game may be possible, but for me, if I have a viable shot which leaves my fate in my own hands, I would feel a lot better going down the tubes trying to win than I would hoping my opponent steps on his pencil and gives me a pass.

There's nothing like having strong shooting skills when you need them. Jeff, I know you are very much aware of that axiom.

Tom
 

Jeff sparks

Verified Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2015
Messages
2,936
If I'm visualizing the ball positions correctly, can't he comfortably shoot-and-stick on the 10 if he turns down the 3? (I think I must be seein the 3's path toward his pocket differently that some of you. I'm seeing a full pocket -- or nearly so -- and a "free" rhe roll of the CB to the neighborhood of straight-in on the 7, which doesn't go, but gives him more choices.)
John,
From where I'm planning on leaving the CB, (close to the middle diamond on the head rail) if he shoots at the 3 to make it, the CB will be moving toward the left side of the two other balls to the right and below the 3 ball, he will not have a shot at either of those balls unless it's some sort of a bank across corner.

As to shooting at the 10 from up table, well I'm putting the 10 close to the side pocket and he will have to follow the CB along the side rail to get me trapped again, and then if he doesn't get perfect, I might be able to escape off the 10 getting in back of the 9 and I'm out of the trap.

I can't see what you're referring to when talking about free roll to straight in on the 7 ball, the 7 doesn't go in anyone's pocket???
 

Jeff sparks

Verified Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2015
Messages
2,936
Sending the cue ball up table provides your opponent options that can only hurt you further. Whether it be sliding off the ten, banking it three rails (side rail-foot rail-head rail), driving the six-seven combo three rails and sticking the cue ball, rolling softly into the six, leaving the cue ball nestled in the stack while sending the seven safely to the foot rail. or shooting the three, if it provides additional shots. Any one of these options are guaranteed to add to your problems.

Escaping one of these traps and eventually winning this game may be possible, but for me, if I have a viable shot which leaves my fate in my own hands, I would feel a lot better going down the tubes trying to win than I would hoping my opponent steps on his pencil and gives me a pass.

There's nothing like having strong shooting skills when you need them. Jeff, I know you are very much aware of that axiom.

Tom
You're gonna get a chance to demonstrate those options for me in October if you still plan on coming over for the Super Seniors. I gotta see you execute some of those options with splinters in your fingers and looking at about 1/16 of the CB. I believe you are one of the best minds in the game Tom, but you don't come off the joint like Smith or Chohan... :sorry ole buddy ole pal :):)
 

LSJohn

Verified Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2013
Messages
7,798
(close to the middle diamond on the head rail)
Either I misunderstood or you mis-typed this: "I'm gonna leave him a shot on the 3 ball, thin the 10 & go to his long rail above the side pocket with the CB"

I think now that what you meant was to describe where CB would hit the long rail, then rebound to the head rail. I didn't catch that before.

As to shooting at the 10 from up table, well I'm putting the 10 close to the side pocket and he will have to follow the CB along the side rail to get me trapped again, and then if he doesn't get perfect, I might be able to escape off the 10 getting in back of the 9 and I'm out of the trap."
Good point. Proximity to the side would be critical in determining what he could or couldn't do off the 10.

I can't see what you're referring to when talking about free roll to straight in on the 7 ball, the 7 doesn't go in anyone's pocket???
I was just saying where I thought the CB could be comfortably placed while shooting the 3. Safe, hiding the 2 remaining by his pocket, and an easy way to play the seven toward his pocket while freezing you to the stack or even playing 7-15 combo. Of course all this changes is he mis-hits the 3, or if you leave the CB where you intend rather than where I thought. :heh
 

Tom Wirth

Verified Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2004
Messages
2,604
You're gonna get a chance to demonstrate those options for me in October if you still plan on coming over for the Super Seniors. I gotta see you execute some of those options with splinters in your fingers and looking at about 1/16 of the CB. I believe you are one of the best minds in the game Tom, but you don't come off the joint like Smith or Chohan... :sorry ole buddy ole pal :):)
Jeff, you are, oh so right about that last statement my friend. The thing is, in this case i don't have to play like Smith or Chohan. With so many options at my disposal, it won't be difficult to choose one that I can pull off. What then, buddy? The way I see it, your shot is just another instance of waiting for the ax to fall.

So Jeff, would you have chosen this same shot had you been playing Smith or Chohan, or would you have gone with your strong suit and banked the ten like I suggested earlier?

Tom
 
Last edited:

wincardona

Verified Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
7,302
I'm gonna leave him a shot on the 3 ball, thin the 10 & go to his long rail above the side pocket with the CB and freeze him on the joint as straight in as possible on the 3 ball. I would welcome him to shot at the 3 from there.
Jeff, your thinking on this position is viable, however, I don't like how your playing off the 10ball. I do like where you're placing the cue ball but the 10ball will most likely end up in a position where it would be easy for your opponent to either roll on it or softly bank it to the other side, in either case you figure to be back in trouble when you get back to the table. Like I mentioned, I do like your cue ball. Can you bank the 10ball to miss it by playing it long and follow the cue ball to where you need to place it? Playing the cue ball in this fashion you will then force your opponent to either shoot the 3ball (which he won't like) or play off the 10ball. If he decides to play off the 10ball your chances of getting back to the table in a better situation is much improved.

I also would consider banking the 10ball to pocket it and stick. This method of playing the shot will offer you a decent shot on the 1ball if you pocket the 10ball and if you miss the 10ball bank your opponent will be forced to play off the 10ball with his return.

Then there's always Tom's option with banking the 10ball and playing shape on the bank on the 9ball. If I were his opponent I wouldn't want him to shoot that option, but that's just me.

Dr. Bill
 

Jeff sparks

Verified Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2015
Messages
2,936
Jeff, your thinking on this position is viable, however, I don't like how your playing off the 10ball. I do like where you're placing the cue ball but the 10ball will most likely end up in a position where it would be easy for your opponent to either roll on it or softly bank it to the other side, in either case you figure to be back in trouble when you get back to the table. Like I mentioned, I do like your cue ball. Can you bank the 10ball to miss it by playing it long and follow the cue ball to where you need to place it? Playing the cue ball in this fashion you will then force your opponent to either shoot the 3ball (which he won't like) or play off the 10ball. If he decides to play off the 10ball your chances of getting back to the table in a better situation is much improved.

I also would consider banking the 10ball to pocket it and stick. This method of playing the shot will offer you a decent shot on the 1ball if you pocket the 10ball and if you miss the 10ball bank your opponent will be forced to play off the 10ball with his return.

Then there's always Tom's option with banking the 10ball and playing shape on the bank on the 9ball. If I were his opponent I wouldn't want him to shoot that option, but that's just me.

Dr. Bill
Hi Bill,
Glad you chimed in, always appreciate your input.
The CB is to close to the 10 to get the desired result banking it long, the speed is wrong, ie; it's gotta be hit to hard to get the CB up table where I'd like it and the 10 will be long gone from my scoring quadrant. But you're given rise to a thought, perhaps crossing it back towards the 6/7 with high RHE going long rail/long rail/ head rail might work.

I was really just being the devils advocate here, the right shot, the one I'd more than likely shoot for the money would be the bank and stop, unless it laid absolutely perfect, with no stiff needed, then I would draw back for shape on the 9.

Ok Tom, you're right as usual, it just took two or three voices of reason ( you, Frank, & Dr.Bill ) to make me change my mind. Just hate leaving the rock on the wrong side of the stack, and all the while you're drawing it back, that thought looms large on your mind and sometimes has an affect on the stroke.
 

baby huey

Verified Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2008
Messages
1,366
I don't like shooting any shot where I leave my opponent a clean free shot at his hole, especially where he can get ahold of the balls by his hole. I like leaving the cue ball on the rail where he can only push a ball ( ten ball )towards the stack. I chose my shot because it's easily accomplished and he might open the stack enough where a lane opens up for a take out of his balls or stick him him in the stack. I've won many a game with worse conditions. Regardless I'm going to shoot again and I'm always optimistic when I can stay alive.
 

Mkbtank

Verified Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2013
Messages
5,316
Josh Roberts vs Mike Davis WWYD

I'm banking the 10 as well. (But you knew that) Especially if I know the table.
 

Mkbtank

Verified Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2013
Messages
5,316
Josh Roberts vs Mike Davis WWYD

Yeah, but are you sticking or playing shape?


Shape for the 9. Otherwise if I make the 10 with no shape it's a wasted bullet and I'm still trapped. If I'm confident about the bank on the 10, I can turn the whole game around. 10, 9, then that loose ball under the stack to break out more...
 

LSJohn

Verified Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2013
Messages
7,798
Shape for the 9. Otherwise if I make the 10 with no shape it's a wasted bullet and I'm still trapped. If I'm confident about the bank on the 10, I can turn the whole game around. 10, 9, then that loose ball under the stack to break out more...
Agreed. Shooting the 10 gains essentially nothing unless you play shape (and get it. :) )
 

gulfportdoc

Verified Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2004
Messages
9,620
He might kick something loose that gives you a good option. Also, I've heard some smart people say that moving more balls toward your pocket can be a disadvantage as well as an advantage if you already have a favorable layout with balls near it. How good or bad it might be here is anyone's guess unless there is specific ball-movement that you think you can predict.

I don't think I'd mind my opponent blasting the 10 into the stack from there. My $.02.
Blast shot-- no. But the shooter could be very selective and precise with the CB and 10 balls from that position. The stack offers several good selections for moving balls toward the shooter's hole without jeopardy.

~Doc
 

wincardona

Verified Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
7,302
jerry matchin

I don't like shooting any shot where I leave my opponent a clean free shot at his hole, especially where he can get ahold of the balls by his hole. I like leaving the cue ball on the rail where he can only push a ball ( ten ball )towards the stack. I chose my shot because it's easily accomplished and he might open the stack enough where a lane opens up for a take out of his balls or stick him him in the stack. I've won many a game with worse conditions. Regardless I'm going to shoot again and I'm always optimistic when I can stay alive.
Jerry, I don't think your strategy applies in this situation because there is another option that will force your opponent to play a specific shot off his choice of options. This would be to bank the 10ball and stick. Choosing your option of sliding off the 10ball to the side rail will offer your opponent too many possible return shots. One in particular would be not to play the 10ball into the stack but to play the 10ball to the side rail and block any kicking lanes your opponent may have once the 10ball is moved. Your opponent can no longer kick to the inside of the 3ball if you block the lane with the 10ball.
Mkbtank

Shape for the 9. Otherwise if I make the 10 with no shape it's a wasted bullet and I'm still trapped. If I'm confident about the bank on the 10, I can turn the whole game around. 10, 9, then that loose ball under the stack to break out more...
______
____________

Like I mentioned to Jerry banking the 10ball and sticking is a viable option that will force your opponent to play off the 10ball if the bank is missed, if you should happen to pocket the bank you should have a decent angle (Franks suggestion)with playing off the 1ball to open up a ball or two to your side and possibly protect them with the 6 and 7ball. If you notice that the 10ball the way it lays in the initial position precludes you from kicking to the inside of the 3ball, once the 10ball is moved like in banking the 10ball you will then open up that option for you in a later inning if needed.

Kicking two rails behind the 9ball like Bill suggested doesn't appear to be available. Playing up table with the cue ball like Jeff suggested would only be good if you could control the 10ball to a difficult position for your opponent to play off of it if forced to. Jerry's option is not my choice for the reasons I explained. That would leave the shot that Mike shot and Frank liked, banking and sticking or the shot that Tom suggested, banking all out and playing shape on the 9ball. Banking and sticking would be the option many would choose because gambling on banking and playing shape is too much of a gamble for valid reasons. My $.02

Dr. Bill
 

BRLongArm

Verified Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2006
Messages
721
The worst ball for you right now is the three. You have to re-position the three ball. Bank the one into the rail firmly, sending the three towards your pocket. You hit it hard with outside english, which sends the cue to the end rail. With that pace, the one should also clear. This leaves only an off angle combo to your opponent, with distance. The ten and one should be threatening your hole, causing him to duck, and giving you an inning to neutralize the table further, or even get a shot at your hole.
 
Last edited:

Jeff sparks

Verified Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2015
Messages
2,936
I'd have to have a good close look at it at the table, but the speed seems right and the angle seems doable for banking the 10 ball one rail at the 6/7 balls and sending the CB to each long rail then settle it on the head rail near the middle of the rail. This could turn out very well... Opening up 3 balls to my hole and applying some pressure and distance.

I only saw this shot because Dr. Bill suggested putting the 10 near my pocket and placing the CB up table. I didn't think it possible to follow that far and keep the 10 near my pocket, so I immediately looked for a way to accomplish that and banking the 10 at the 6/7 looked very doable. I believe I would shoot it if I thought I could control the CB to the spot I wanted. Thanks Bill...
 
Top