J. Brumback vs. J. Parica 2011 D.C.C. #2

wincardona

Verified Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
7,546
NH Steve said:
Yeah, but often that little half-kiss does not hurt, since it sends away the object ball anyway. I guess it remains to be seen if it hurt here.
He actually played the kiss, I thought that shot may have been available but didn't mention it. If you ask him about the shot and he remembers it he will tell you that he played the kiss.

Billy I.
 

wincardona

Verified Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
7,546
Cowboy Dennis said:
Jose decided to shoot the 5 ball but he double-kissed it off the side-rail and sent it into the 14.

View attachment 3314

Here's how he left it for JB:

View attachment 3315
From the position John is left in he has to be thinking about banking the 7 ball toward his pocket and swing three cushions with the cue ball ending up adjacent to the 14 ball. There may be a kiss with the shot because of the angle going into the 7 ball, a straighter angle ( if the 8 ball was the cue ball) would offer him better control with the cue ball and he could easily beat the kiss.

I'm only bringing this shot up not because it's the right shot but when the angle allows you to shoot it it's a very strong shot. But it takes many attempts at shots like this one to develop a good feel for the angles that carry a kiss and how to sometimes avoid the kiss. And then there are the angles that there is no kiss and that's the times when you want to shoot the shot, providing it's the correct shot for the situation.

Billy I.
 

wincardona

Verified Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
7,546
wincardona said:
From the position John is left in he has to be thinking about banking the 7 ball toward his pocket and swing three cushions with the cue ball ending up adjacent to the 14 ball. There may be a kiss with the shot because of the angle going into the 7 ball, a straighter angle ( if the 8 ball was the cue ball) would offer him better control with the cue ball and he could easily beat the kiss.

I'm only bringing this shot up not because it's the right shot but when the angle allows you to shoot it it's a very strong shot. But it takes many attempts at shots like this one to develop a good feel for the angles that carry a kiss and how to sometimes avoid the kiss. And then there are the angles that there is no kiss and that's the times when you want to shoot the shot, providing it's the correct shot for the situation.

Billy I.
I hope i'm not being redundant but with shots like the possible bank on the 7 ball you want to hit the object ball full enough to speed up the object ball and slow up the cue ball. That way the object ball (7 ball) will hit the bottom cushion and leave that area before the cue ball has a chance of catching up with it. If you remember the cue ball will take a three cushion route and will also hit the bottom rail, and you want the object ball to beat the cue ball to the bottom rail at least a full second before the cue ball gets there.

With the angle that John has you will notice that in order to bank the 7 ball toward his pocket he NEEDS to cut the 7 ball thinly, and if he hits the 7 ball accurately the cue ball will SPEED up and catch up with the 7 ball at some point.:eek:

Timing with both balls is the crux of figuring out a way to beat the kiss.
I hope that my explanation of this shot has drawn an imaginary picture in your mind and that way you will remember about how to beat the kiss.

Billy I.
 

petie

Verified Member
Joined
Oct 2, 2005
Messages
3,314
If I try to bank the 7 and go three rails behind the stack, I'm worried I won't go short enough to avoid the stack off the third rail. Also, I'd be giving the cueball the opposite english that I should to make it a natural bank and spin the 7 towards my pocket. This would require an even thinner hit on the 7 which would make the cue ball go tighter into the corner making it run longer off the third rail.

I like combo banking the 10 ball by hitting it with the 3 ball and snuggling the cue ball up into the rack. The 3 ball will go north a little toward the side pocket.
 

androd

Verified Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2008
Messages
7,316
petie said:
If I try to bank the 7 and go three rails behind the stack, I'm worried I won't go short enough to avoid the stack off the third rail. Also, I'd be giving the cueball the opposite english that I should to make it a natural bank and spin the 7 towards my pocket. This would require an even thinner hit on the 7 which would make the cue ball go tighter into the corner making it run longer off the third rail.

I like combo banking the 10 ball by hitting it with the 3 ball and snuggling the cue ball up into the rack. The 3 ball will go north a little toward the side pocket.
Petie, The easiest way to make the 7 ball is with inside (What you call opposite)English. ;) The CB should come to the 4th rail just below the side pocket.

If the CB were to hit the stack the 7 ball would barely make it to the middle of the table. :confused:
IMO
Rod.
 

petie

Verified Member
Joined
Oct 2, 2005
Messages
3,314
Rod, when I use the term 'opposite' I merely mean that if whitie were not an issue, I would give the cueball outside english which would help overcome collision induced sidespin and throw it to my pocket.

You know I bow to your greater knowledge as you have busted me ever so gently on several occasions. If the cue ball hits just below the side pocket, it is on a path very close to the stack, I think. I say this because the second diamond on the third rail lines up with the corner pocket and 'near the side pocket is almost 2 diamonds longer. Of course, I'm not a competent billiard player, and some would say not a competent one pocket player either, and these views can be misleading. Now you have me hoping he went for the shot so I can see the outcome.

I just re-read your post and see that you are talking about the 4th rail that the cue ball will hit just below the side pocket. If you say so. I'll have to set this one up to prove it to myself. How could I be that far off?

Petie
"The crux of the bisquit is the hypothesist."
 
Last edited:

androd

Verified Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2008
Messages
7,316
petie said:
Rod, when I use the term 'opposite' I merely mean that if whitie were not an issue, I would give the cueball outside english which would help overcome collision induced sidespin and throw it to my pocket.


Petie
"The crux of the bisquit is the hypothesist."
Petie, when the angle is to much for the english to hold, then the opposite occurs. :D
Rod.
PS,Thanx to Calired for the desktop cue table (Wei)
[CUETABLE]http://pool.bz/P/?@4ELFk2PWRT4YLFk4YEvq2YYUk2kWRT4kLmb4kbpi3kAWs3kbJA1kaGp2uAYQ@[/CUETABLE]
 
Last edited:

Frank Almanza

Verified Member
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
2,434
Since nothing appears to go to Parica's pocket I might decide on this if I could beat the kiss using outside english (left).outside.JPG
 

ChrisBanks

Verified Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2011
Messages
149
What do you think about hitting the 5 into the 14, banking the 14 to your side. Run the cueball into the 2.

Emphasis on making sure the cueball hits the 2.

Or maybe better yet is to run the cueball into the stack (I think the 7ball), and pop out the stripe to your side.
 

fred bentivegna

Verified Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2005
Messages
6,690
Please!

Please!

Anybody who cant beat the kiss on the 7 ball deserves a flogging. Here is just one way to do it: 2 or 3 tips of RIGHT hand english, which will slow the cue ball down and speed up the object ball. It will also help the cue ball travel 3 rails and go behind the stack.

Beard
 

wincardona

Verified Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
7,546
fred bentivegna said:
Anybody who cant beat the kiss on the 7 ball deserves a flogging. Here is just one way to do it: 2 or 3 tips of RIGHT hand english, which will slow the cue ball down and speed up the object ball. It will also help the cue ball travel 3 rails and go behind the stack.

Beard
Sorry Fred but right hand english speeds up the cue ball. It's your other right that slows it up.:D

Billy I.
 

lll

Verified Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2007
Messages
15,932
:)
ChrisBanks said:
What do you think about hitting the 5 into the 14, banking the 14 to your side. Run the cueball into the 2.

Emphasis on making sure the cueball hits the 2.

Or maybe better yet is to run the cueball into the stack (I think the 7ball), and pop out the stripe to your side.
im leaning towards your type of shot like this
jp1.jpg
p.s billy thanks for your description on deciding if there is a kiss or not:) :)
 

lll

Verified Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2007
Messages
15,932
i like that shot because the balls are a close distance which tends towards more accuracy at my level
plus you move a ball towards your pocket get another one more up table
and you hide him behind the stack
all that sounds good to me:)
im sure ill find out how good that sounds

p.s.chrisbanks
if "we" get criticized badly it was "your shot":eek: :rolleyes:
if they like it we can share it:D
 

androd

Verified Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2008
Messages
7,316
wincardona said:
Sorry Fred but right hand english speeds up the cue ball. It's your other right that slows it up.:D

Billy I.
Neither one is a kiss. :)
Rod.
 

Miller

Verified Member
Joined
Aug 18, 2010
Messages
4,410
as a neophyte of the game, it is cool to see the beard chirp in on a layout.

i like chrisbanks shot also.

is the pittsburgh kid's and frank the barber's shot the same? not sure what billy means by adjacent to the 14.
 

petie

Verified Member
Joined
Oct 2, 2005
Messages
3,314
lll said:
i like that shot because the balls are a close distance which tends towards more accuracy at my level
plus you move a ball towards your pocket get another one more up table
and you hide him behind the stack
all that sounds good to me:)
im sure ill find out how good that sounds

p.s.chrisbanks
if "we" get criticized badly it was "your shot":eek: :rolleyes:
if they like it we can share it:D
That's my shot. Post #24 but I called it the 3 ball instead of the 5 ball. One proviso is that if you are going to send whitie to the left of the stack, play to hit the 2 or you might just run past it and sell it out. I was going to try to nestle into the niche created between the 9 ball and the brown ball being careful to hit the brown ball and not the 9 ball. Hitting the 2 might be better.
 

fred bentivegna

Verified Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2005
Messages
6,690
Sorry Willy,

Sorry Willy,

wincardona said:
Sorry Fred but right hand english speeds up the cue ball. It's your other right that slows it up.:D

Billy I.
Billy, you should know better than to challenge me on stuff like this. In this instance you are kinda right, but mostly wrong. Right hand english speeds up the cue ball, AFTER the cue ball contacts a rail. Sorta. Complimentary english (in this case, right eng) does picks up speed off of the cushions. Left hand (reverse) english kills speed after it contacts cushions. Or so it would appear.

And before Figeroa turns this over to Dr Dave on AZ, I had better clarify further. Right hand english doesnt really speed up the cue ball either! What it does do is pick up more english every time it contacts a cushion. What that does is help to increase the distance the cue ball will travel. Complimentary english adds distance not actual speed as in MPH.

Conversely, reverse english kills distance not speed.
My solution of what to do and why, was pertinent to the bank shot in question and one way to beat the kiss.

Even more elucidation. The point I was trying to make with slowing the cue ball down was actually directed towards the initial carom off of the object ball. The carom off of that 7 ball would proceed slower to the rail if there was english applied to the cue ball. Right or left hand english wouldnt matter either, as to the speed of approach to the first cushion. You wouldnt want to use reverse of course, because that wouldnt allow you to travel 3 rails and land behind the stack. (Conclusion: a no english carom off of the 7 ball would proceed faster to the rail then a carom with english)

That is the slowdown I was looking for that would allow me to beat the kiss on the bank.

Even after contacting the 1st cushion and picking up more english, the cue ball would proceed slowly to the 2nd rail because the cue ball would be traveling with side spin and roll, rather than pure roll, which would be much faster.

(I am sure everyone can relate to watching how slowly a spinning cue ball rolls between the rails-- but then how far it eventually travels.)

I knew all this of course, when I made my suggestion, but I thought I could just make it simple and say, "use right hand english to slow the cue ball down to beat the kiss." Bottom line, all who listened to me can beat that kiss.

Beard

I hope this post doesnt affect the Olive Oil I asked you to bring back for me from Europe.
 

Jimmy B

Verified Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2007
Messages
5,437
fred bentivegna said:
Billy, you should know better than to challenge me on stuff like this. In this instance you are kinda right, but mostly wrong. Right hand english speeds up the cue ball, AFTER the cue ball contacts a rail. Sorta. Complimentary english (in this case, right eng) does picks up speed off of the cushions. Left hand (reverse) english kills speed after it contacts cushions. Or so it would appear.

And before Figeroa turns this over to Dr Dave on AZ, I had better clarify further. Right hand english doesnt really speed up the cue ball either! What it does do is pick up more english every time it contacts a cushion. What that does is help to increase the distance the cue ball will travel. Complimentary english adds distance not actual speed as in MPH.

Conversely, reverse english kills distance not speed.
My solution of what to do and why, was pertinent to the bank shot in question and one way to beat the kiss.

Even more elucidation. The point I was trying to make with slowing the cue ball down was actually directed towards the initial carom off of the object ball. The carom off of that 7 ball would proceed slower to the rail if there was english applied to the cue ball. Right or left hand english wouldnt matter either, as to the speed of approach to the first cushion. You wouldnt want to use reverse of course, because that wouldnt allow you to travel 3 rails and land behind the stack. (Conclusion: a no english carom off of the 7 ball would proceed faster to the rail then a carom with english)

That is the slowdown I was looking for that would allow me to beat the kiss on the bank.

Even after contacting the 1st cushion and picking up more english, the cue ball would proceed slowly to the 2nd rail because the cue ball would be traveling with side spin and roll, rather than pure roll, which would be much faster.

(I am sure everyone can relate to watching how slowly a spinning cue ball rolls between the rails-- but then how far it eventually travels.)

I knew all this of course, when I made my suggestion, but I thought I could just make it simple and say, "use right hand english to slow the cue ball down to beat the kiss." Bottom line, all who listened to me can beat that kiss.

Beard

I hope this post doesnt affect the Olive Oil I asked you to bring back for me from Europe.



I knew what you were speaking of in the first post, but I could never expain it like that. Very instructive. I use to think the ball speeded up sometimes with running english but I suppose it was just an illusion, but like you said it increases the distance the ball will travel due to the energy on it. But like you said, it's about beating the kiss AND locating the cue ball. I got to wondering about olive oil when I saw your first post about Bill going to Europe and went right out and bought these bottles of Pompeian extra virgin olive oil. The name intrigued me but the bottle has no instructions or suggestions or anything. It just keeps bragging about being a key component of a health Mediterranean diet and how it is cholesterol free and transfat free and on and on so I just used it to fry some French Fries and then threw some chicken nuggets in there too even though they were precooked and ready to eat but I just want to say they were very very tasty and I will use it again so I'm glad I can use it for more than a sexual lubricant or something like that because it is perfect for that and has a very pleasant odor to me but If anyone has info on some good kinds of meat to cook in that I would appreciate it even though this stuff is probably shit compared to the kind of the real deal stuff available over there..............
 
Top