It isn't about the person

petie

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Oct 2, 2005
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Personalities being what they are, I decided to rant a little about the subject. I hope anyone with any thoughts on the subject will also rant here so maybe we can all learn something.

Having different opinions of the same situation is basically impersonal. That is, my opinion is this or that for the following reasons and your opinion is that or this for the following reasons. Either or both of us may be way wrong or ill advised but none-the-less it is about the facts and the perceptions of them we hold—not so much who we are. Actually, it is a lot about who we are in a very deep sense which takes in our genes and experience but I’m not talking about that. I’m talking about situational decision making. We have perceptions, and see facts and more or less calculate our opinion based on the situation. This is relatively dispassionate. It only confuses the pursuit of truth to invoke attacks on the person. It isn’t about the person. Its about the facts and circumstances as one sees them. Personal attacks often show the ass of the attacker much more than that of the attacked.

In support of this, I would ask the reader to consider 2 or three names of posters who consistently show themselves to be asses. We all have a different opinion, right? I won’t embarrass them by naming the ones that come to my mind, but I’d bet a dollar to a donut that 95% of us are thinking of the same names. If that is the case, it would seem that all of the attack posts of the Asses have backfired. While trying to sound superior they have only shown themselves to be crippled sort of like, “What’s wrong with him?” or “I wonder what happened to him in his childhood that made him like that?” Its about them—no one else.

I won’t repeat my previous post(s) about Ego-offensive vs. Ego-syntonic. I’ll just say that if WWYD threads are about learning, being an ass about it gets in the way of learning. Also, if you wish to advance an idea about anything, personal attacks on dissenters works against the advance of your idea. It makes one think that the idea is not very strong if it cannot be defended with logic and information but instead must resort to personal attacks to get the point across. And, just like with the WWYD’s, the side effect is that you are showing your own ass—not the dissenter’s.

It isn’t about the person unless you make it so. Then its about you.

I’ll say two more things. If you are not willing to be wrong, you cannot learn. Think about it. The other is that I’ll bet I am not the only one who has a family member who really does ride the short bus. I have a grand nephew who is an absolute joy and honor to be around who is picked up by the short bus daily and taken to a special school. He can do some things better than most but due to a congenital condition, he cannot do some other things at the level of his chronological age. Anyone who has known a person like this knows that they can teach us very important things about life and love attitude. We are not superior to 'these, the least of my brethren.'
 

LSJohn

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Joined
Aug 15, 2013
Messages
7,761
Personalities being what they are, I decided to rant a little about the subject. I hope anyone with any thoughts on the subject will also rant here so maybe we can all learn something.

Having different opinions of the same situation is basically impersonal. That is, my opinion is this or that for the following reasons and your opinion is that or this for the following reasons. Either or both of us may be way wrong or ill advised but none-the-less it is about the facts and the perceptions of them we hold—not so much who we are. Actually, it is a lot about who we are in a very deep sense which takes in our genes and experience but I’m not talking about that. I’m talking about situational decision making. We have perceptions, and see facts and more or less calculate our opinion based on the situation. This is relatively dispassionate. It only confuses the pursuit of truth to invoke attacks on the person. It isn’t about the person. Its about the facts and circumstances as one sees them. Personal attacks often show the ass of the attacker much more than that of the attacked.

In support of this, I would ask the reader to consider 2 or three names of posters who consistently show themselves to be asses. We all have a different opinion, right? I won’t embarrass them by naming the ones that come to my mind, but I’d bet a dollar to a donut that 95% of us are thinking of the same names. If that is the case, it would seem that all of the attack posts of the Asses have backfired. While trying to sound superior they have only shown themselves to be crippled sort of like, “What’s wrong with him?” or “I wonder what happened to him in his childhood that made him like that?” Its about them—no one else.

I won’t repeat my previous post(s) about Ego-offensive vs. Ego-syntonic. I’ll just say that if WWYD threads are about learning, being an ass about it gets in the way of learning. Also, if you wish to advance an idea about anything, personal attacks on dissenters works against the advance of your idea. It makes one think that the idea is not very strong if it cannot be defended with logic and information but instead must resort to personal attacks to get the point across. And, just like with the WWYD’s, the side effect is that you are showing your own ass—not the dissenter’s.

It isn’t about the person unless you make it so. Then its about you.

I’ll say two more things. If you are not willing to be wrong, you cannot learn. Think about it. The other is that I’ll bet I am not the only one who has a family member who really does ride the short bus. I have a grand nephew who is an absolute joy and honor to be around who is picked up by the short bus daily and taken to a special school. He can do some things better than most but due to a congenital condition, he cannot do some other things at the level of his chronological age. Anyone who has known a person like this knows that they can teach us very important things about life and love attitude. We are not superior to 'these, the least of my brethren.'
It is not unusual for people to see something as being in bad taste that was said or done by someone who thought it was perfectly acceptable in the environment and under the circumstances. Attempted humor is often the source.

The most important thing to me is the intent of the actor, but there is some value in considering how easily it might be misunderstood to cause a negative outcome. Hacker and I are guilty of falling short on part B at times, but I consider that two other purveyors of friendly but misunderstandable digs -- Billy I and Ghost -- only do their digging in a giving-as-good-as-they-get, good-humored manner.

And, BTW, I am one who has a "short bus" relative. My nephew is downs syndrome and is the loveliest, sweetest person you'd ever want to know. His accomplishments given his difficulties are amazing, amazing, amazing. IMO it is no negative reflection on him or others who actually or metaphorically ride a short bus to jokingly claim an otherwise normal person is qualified to ride with them.

Members here, like people everywhere, have many different ideas about where the lines are that shouldn't be crossed. We need to be careful not to judge too harshly those whose lines are located to be either more or less restrictive than our own. Intent is important even when judgment seems to have been lacking.

P.S. If it had come from anyone but you I would have wondered whether a recent comment about CNN and Fox commentators was intended in a friendly manner. I wanted to respond that I would PM you anytime I planned to offer an opinion to warn you not to read it :D but I thought to myself, "Pete doesn't have a mean bone in his body." (Hacker and Billy I. don't have a mean bone in their bodies either, but you sometimes have to wonder about me and Ghost. :) )
 

petie

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Joined
Oct 2, 2005
Messages
3,314
It is not unusual for people to see something as being in bad taste that was said or done by someone who thought it was perfectly acceptable in the environment and under the circumstances. Attempted humor is often the source.

The most important thing to me is the intent of the actor, but there is some value in considering how easily it might be misunderstood to cause a negative outcome. Hacker and I are guilty of falling short on part B at times, but I consider that two other purveyors of friendly but misunderstandable digs -- Billy I and Ghost -- only do their digging in a giving-as-good-as-they-get, good-humored manner.

And, BTW, I am one who has a "short bus" relative. My nephew is downs syndrome and is the loveliest, sweetest person you'd ever want to know. His accomplishments given his difficulties are amazing, amazing, amazing. IMO it is no negative reflection on him or others who actually or metaphorically ride a short bus to jokingly claim an otherwise normal person is qualified to ride with them.

Members here, like people everywhere, have many different ideas about where the lines are that shouldn't be crossed. We need to be careful not to judge too harshly those whose lines are located to be either more or less restrictive than our own. Intent is important even when judgment seems to have been lacking.

P.S. If it had come from anyone but you I would have wondered whether a recent comment about CNN and Fox commentators was intended in a friendly manner. I wanted to respond that I would PM you anytime I planned to offer an opinion to warn you not to read it :D but I thought to myself, "Pete doesn't have a mean bone in his body." (Hacker and Billy I. don't have a mean bone in their bodies either, but you sometimes have to wonder about me and Ghost. :) )
We all have our faults. I tried mean but I didn't like myself that way. I am by nature pretty aggressive, and I often try for humor that flops and occasionally offends, but I don't ever try to hurt someone's feelings. Keone reminded me recently that I act like an 'Ugly American' sometimes. BTW, he did it in a very civil way and with no ill intent. It really gave me pause. I have had many occasions where I thought I was hilarious and discovered I was just being a jerk.
 

LSJohn

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We all have our faults. I tried mean but I didn't like myself that way. I am by nature pretty aggressive, and I often try for humor that flops and occasionally offends, but I don't ever try to hurt someone's feelings. Keone reminded me recently that I act like an 'Ugly American' sometimes. BTW, he did it in a very civil way and with no ill intent. It really gave me pause. I have had many occasions where I thought I was hilarious and discovered I was just being a jerk.
LOL, tell me about it. :)

I guess you had me fooled. I've never seen you be less than a perfect gentleman here.

My problem -- one of them -- is that a lot of my alleged/attempted humor is to entertain ME, and I don't often enough consider how easy it might be for others to misunderstand, or simply not think it's funny or in good taste.

Anyway, you made a thoughtful post with goodwill. Keep doin' what you're doin'. :)
 

androd

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Dec 10, 2008
Messages
7,144
LOL, tell me about it. :)



Anyway, you made a thoughtful post with goodwill. Keep doin' what you're doin'. :)
Agreed, I'm the only pessimist here and I doubt it'll work.

P.S. Hope I'm pleastantly surprised.
 

onepockethacker

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Joined
Jan 31, 2012
Messages
3,385
Personalities being what they are, I decided to rant a little about the subject. I hope anyone with any thoughts on the subject will also rant here so maybe we can all learn something.

Having different opinions of the same situation is basically impersonal. That is, my opinion is this or that for the following reasons and your opinion is that or this for the following reasons. Either or both of us may be way wrong or ill advised but none-the-less it is about the facts and the perceptions of them we hold—not so much who we are. Actually, it is a lot about who we are in a very deep sense which takes in our genes and experience but I’m not talking about that. I’m talking about situational decision making. We have perceptions, and see facts and more or less calculate our opinion based on the situation. This is relatively dispassionate. It only confuses the pursuit of truth to invoke attacks on the person. It isn’t about the person. Its about the facts and circumstances as one sees them. Personal attacks often show the ass of the attacker much more than that of the attacked.

In support of this, I would ask the reader to consider 2 or three names of posters who consistently show themselves to be asses. We all have a different opinion, right? I won’t embarrass them by naming the ones that come to my mind, but I’d bet a dollar to a donut that 95% of us are thinking of the same names. If that is the case, it would seem that all of the attack posts of the Asses have backfired. While trying to sound superior they have only shown themselves to be crippled sort of like, “What’s wrong with him?” or “I wonder what happened to him in his childhood that made him like that?” Its about them—no one else.

I won’t repeat my previous post(s) about Ego-offensive vs. Ego-syntonic. I’ll just say that if WWYD threads are about learning, being an ass about it gets in the way of learning. Also, if you wish to advance an idea about anything, personal attacks on dissenters works against the advance of your idea. It makes one think that the idea is not very strong if it cannot be defended with logic and information but instead must resort to personal attacks to get the point across. And, just like with the WWYD’s, the side effect is that you are showing your own ass—not the dissenter’s.

It isn’t about the person unless you make it so. Then its about you.

I’ll say two more things. If you are not willing to be wrong, you cannot learn. Think about it. The other is that I’ll bet I am not the only one who has a family member who really does ride the short bus. I have a grand nephew who is an absolute joy and honor to be around who is picked up by the short bus daily and taken to a special school. He can do some things better than most but due to a congenital condition, he cannot do some other things at the level of his chronological age. Anyone who has known a person like this knows that they can teach us very important things about life and love attitude. We are not superior to 'these, the least of my brethren.'
Seeing how this is directed at me I want to apologize about the short bus comments.. Yes I am guilty of the things you say because I get aggravated when people can't see common sense.. Anyway I like you Petie you are a great guy and I consider you my friend.. Anyway I will not be " showing my ass" in the WWYD's anymore.. I am done commenting on them.. Just listen to Dr. Bill's suggestions and you guys will do fine..
Your friend Rob
 

LSJohn

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Seeing how this is directed at me I want to apologize about the short bus comments.. Yes I am guilty of the things you say because I get aggravated when people can't see common sense.. Anyway I like you Petie you are a great guy and I consider you my friend.. Anyway I will not be " showing my ass" in the WWYD's anymore.. I am done commenting on them.. Just listen to Dr. Bill's suggestions and you guys will do fine..
Your friend Rob
Very nice, except the part about not commenting on the WWYDs. You give and take a lot of crap but your substantive input is valuable and appreciated by most -- maybe all -- of us. Fine to cool your jets if you think you should, but don't abandon us! :)

(It did get a little over-heated in the last couple of days, but fuggedaboudit... we need ya... you're one of the few I can call stupid without hurting anyone's feelings. :D )
 

petie

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Oct 2, 2005
Messages
3,314
Seeing how this is directed at me I want to apologize about the short bus comments.. Yes I am guilty of the things you say because I get aggravated when people can't see common sense.. Anyway I like you Petie you are a great guy and I consider you my friend.. Anyway I will not be " showing my ass" in the WWYD's anymore.. I am done commenting on them.. Just listen to Dr. Bill's suggestions and you guys will do fine..
Your friend Rob
Rob, please don't quit. I'd feel guilty forever. I like you too. In fact, my feelings about you have never changed. I liked you and your attitude from day one at DCC. This isn't anything I wouldn't tell my own son. There aren't too many of us who have not been an ass. Growing up takes a long time and some of us never do it. Now get right back on that horse.

Your friend,

Pete Saxton
 

Miller

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Aug 18, 2010
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4,148
Seeing how this is directed at me I want to apologize about the short bus comments.. Yes I am guilty of the things you say because I get aggravated when people can't see common sense.. Anyway I like you Petie you are a great guy and I consider you my friend.. Anyway I will not be " showing my ass" in the WWYD's anymore.. I am done commenting on them.. Just listen to Dr. Bill's suggestions and you guys will do fine..
Your friend Rob

rob,

you have consistently shown yourself to be a good guy and folks that have had the opportunity to meet or become acquaintances with you know that.

what would go over as good natured banter, ribbing, etc. in person can get lost in typed words. (occasionally, it might escalate and get a little outside of good taste - most are guilty of it at one point or another.)

average players who simply marvel at the game when properly played and all of its exponential variables are lucky to have access to great players minds and experiences on here - which certainly applies to you.

not having you post on the WWYD scenarios would be unfortunate.

go easy cabbage head.
:)
 

LSJohn

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Messages
7,761
Rob, please don't quit. I'd feel guilty forever. I like you too. In fact, my feelings about you have never changed. I liked you and your attitude from day one at DCC. This isn't anything I wouldn't tell my own son. There aren't too many of us who have not been an ass. Growing up takes a long time and some of us never do it. Now get right back on that horse.

Your friend,

Pete Saxton
Two thumbs up!
 

keoneyo

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Mar 31, 2014
Messages
2,558
We all have our faults. I tried mean but I didn't like myself that way. I am by nature pretty aggressive, and I often try for humor that flops and occasionally offends, but I don't ever try to hurt someone's feelings. Keone reminded me recently that I act like an 'Ugly American' sometimes. BTW, he did it in a very civil way and with no ill intent. It really gave me pause. I have had many occasions where I thought I was hilarious and discovered I was just being a jerk.
Pete the only thing I wanted to point out was the joke was beneath a person of your standard and you proved right by being a very honest person about it.
You were sensitive to my feelings and I appreciated that. I am the least "politically correct" person at times and I like a good joke. I can take em as well dish em out. But one thing I don't digest well is dishonesty. Not towards me but in oneself.
We all do things that are baseless and crass. I wish I could go back and take back a lot of things I did when I was younger but I cant. I just have to be honest and try to go on and be the best I can.
But when people hide behind lies and continue to justify their behavior by dishonest construction then they are not worthy of my time.

Not so with you. Ill argue with you who can be a bigger jerk but you showed me a beautiful humanity which is hard to compete with.
 

keoneyo

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The Gunslinger.

The Gunslinger.

Seeing how this is directed at me I want to apologize about the short bus comments.. Yes I am guilty of the things you say because I get aggravated when people can't see common sense.. Anyway I like you Petie you are a great guy and I consider you my friend.. Anyway I will not be " showing my ass" in the WWYD's anymore.. I am done commenting on them.. Just listen to Dr. Bill's suggestions and you guys will do fine..
Your friend Rob
I don't think all of it is directed at you. I think that you aren't as tactful or sensitive as some but do we need to be here? I mean its not a effing Tea Party that we are attending.
I for one appreciate your candor and your wit even though its a bit crass but I love crass too.
Its like that guy at an AA meeting who has heard all the excuses for bad behavior and says "Youre an effing Drunk and a piece of sheet, now do something about it." to those in self denial. And there are a lot of that around here too.

So you are sorely needed. At times even a Doctor, a noted Intellectual, or a Mystical Guru can solve the problem at hand.
 

lll

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14,785
Seeing how this is directed at me I want to apologize about the short bus comments.. Yes I am guilty of the things you say because I get aggravated when people can't see common sense.. Anyway I like you Petie you are a great guy and I consider you my friend.. Anyway I will not be " showing my ass" in the WWYD's anymore.. I am done commenting on them.. Just listen to Dr. Bill's suggestions and you guys will do fine..
Your friend Rob
rob
add me to the list of those that would like you to keep posting
i also know you and have met you in person and in person you are a real nice guy (at least to me...:D)
there is no question that you have alot of knowledge which you are willing to share which is appreciated
you not only talk the talk but walk the walk
...
it was similar in a way with sjd
he liked to needle too
but what started as friendly trash talk
crossed the line and it got too personal and eventually mean spirited
...
so back to peties theme
there are ways to tell someone you disagree and that they are stupid
its a matter of finding the right way to do it
go ask donald trump...:eek:.....:)
 

Billy Jackets

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Sep 3, 2011
Messages
1,190
So, are you asking us to name 2 people ? Or just think of them in our head?
Kinda sounds like a card trick to me .
I think it's the 4 of Diamonds and the Seven of Spades, however a psychologist might look at the diamond being ahead of the spade and deducting that I am a raging racist, and an eliteist.
When I went to school we walked, it was 2.7 miles one way.
Even the smart kids had to walk it.
The worst thing about throwing rocks in a pond is when a 20 foot crocodile moved in and nobody told you!
 

sappo

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Joined
Mar 29, 2006
Messages
1,101
personalities being what they are, i decided to rant a little about the subject. I hope anyone with any thoughts on the subject will also rant here so maybe we can all learn something.

Having different opinions of the same situation is basically impersonal. That is, my opinion is this or that for the following reasons and your opinion is that or this for the following reasons. Either or both of us may be way wrong or ill advised but none-the-less it is about the facts and the perceptions of them we hold—not so much who we are. Actually, it is a lot about who we are in a very deep sense which takes in our genes and experience but i’m not talking about that. I’m talking about situational decision making. We have perceptions, and see facts and more or less calculate our opinion based on the situation. This is relatively dispassionate. It only confuses the pursuit of truth to invoke attacks on the person. It isn’t about the person. Its about the facts and circumstances as one sees them. Personal attacks often show the ass of the attacker much more than that of the attacked.

In support of this, i would ask the reader to consider 2 or three names of posters who consistently show themselves to be asses. We all have a different opinion, right? I won’t embarrass them by naming the ones that come to my mind, but i’d bet a dollar to a donut that 95% of us are thinking of the same names. If that is the case, it would seem that all of the attack posts of the asses have backfired. While trying to sound superior they have only shown themselves to be crippled sort of like, “what’s wrong with him?” or “i wonder what happened to him in his childhood that made him like that?” its about them—no one else.

I won’t repeat my previous post(s) about ego-offensive vs. Ego-syntonic. I’ll just say that if wwyd threads are about learning, being an ass about it gets in the way of learning. Also, if you wish to advance an idea about anything, personal attacks on dissenters works against the advance of your idea. It makes one think that the idea is not very strong if it cannot be defended with logic and information but instead must resort to personal attacks to get the point across. And, just like with the wwyd’s, the side effect is that you are showing your own ass—not the dissenter’s.

It isn’t about the person unless you make it so. Then its about you.

I’ll say two more things. If you are not willing to be wrong, you cannot learn. Think about it. The other is that i’ll bet i am not the only one who has a family member who really does ride the short bus. I have a grand nephew who is an absolute joy and honor to be around who is picked up by the short bus daily and taken to a special school. He can do some things better than most but due to a congenital condition, he cannot do some other things at the level of his chronological age. Anyone who has known a person like this knows that they can teach us very important things about life and love attitude. We are not superior to 'these, the least of my brethren.'
tap, tap, tap!!!!
 

petie

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Joined
Oct 2, 2005
Messages
3,314
Pete the only thing I wanted to point out was the joke was beneath a person of your standard and you proved right by being a very honest person about it.
You were sensitive to my feelings and I appreciated that. I am the least "politically correct" person at times and I like a good joke. I can take em as well dish em out. But one thing I don't digest well is dishonesty. Not towards me but in oneself.
We all do things that are baseless and crass. I wish I could go back and take back a lot of things I did when I was younger but I cant. I just have to be honest and try to go on and be the best I can.
But when people hide behind lies and continue to justify their behavior by dishonest construction then they are not worthy of my time.

Not so with you. Ill argue with you who can be a bigger jerk but you showed me a beautiful humanity which is hard to compete with.
God, Keone, thanks. I still think of the words you invested in me. They definitely sunk in.
 

3RAILKICK

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Jul 5, 2005
Messages
238
I'm pretty new to the game and the forum.

I come from a rotation mindset, but now I'm old. Therein lies the major learning issue..

I largely stay on the porch and try to learn from the questions, comments, criticisms and complaints as well as the explanations and rationales of the assembled brain power and experience of our more accomplished members..

I feel lucky to listen in on so much knowledge being discussed and argued by members who have been in the heat and had to make real time decisions and perform when it counts.

Hacker..I hope you decide to continue to comment in/on the WWYD's. This site would be greatly diminished without your unique participation and teaching style. You sir, have some tough bark on you, but ain't nothing wrong with that. That preserves and protects the interior, that isn't exposed.



...an aside: we have a gentleman at our senior center who is a bit challenged but very pleasant to all..the other day I missed another easy 8ball shot and said to myself outloud...what an idiot! He came over to me and quietly assured me that I was not...his comment and his perspective gave me pause.

..but then, he doesn't see all the stupid sh1t I do.:eek:
 

beatle

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Joined
Jun 21, 2009
Messages
2,175
out of most of the guys here hacker and billy seem to understand the probability of shots, rather than a subjective reason for shooting one over another. for that reason and that reason alone i prefer hacker continues to contribute to us poor confused dumb -witted cant see the light people on this forum.

for those just mentioned you are all babes in the woods if hacker is too much for you. go into any action poolroom and put hacker in and he is lost compared to those that dwarf his harping, picking on certain people, acting like he knows it all, making hard hitting jokes , and all of his other quirks.

billy handles him well but lately hacker is getting the best of him big time. lets wait and see what happens.

ghost holds his own and doesnt seem to take abuse too personally. and he tries hard to put up good shots to discuss even if he doesnt ever know which is the right one to shoot. maybe thats his reason for putting up the shots is to find out the answer from us rather than to form a discussion.

i tend not to be weak and use similes, so take what i say for what you interpret it as. and run with the ball.

:)
 

Cory in dc

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Nov 21, 2012
Messages
1,464
To put things in perspective, this hurts:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/gyXhysmMNhE?start=22" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Somewhat mean words on the internet, not so much. Especially not when they further interesting conversations and help people learn. So bring it on.

That said, I think, e.g., Billy and Tom-Tom, come across a hell of a lot smarter and tougher because they pretty much always maintain an even keel. A few others, and there is more than one, have great insights and experience but don't always come across quite as well.

Cory
 
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Jeff sparks

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Apr 2, 2015
Messages
2,930
Rob,

If you quit, who is gonna keep the Ghost in line, lol, and who will I be able to pick on occasionally? Yeah, you push the edge of the toleration envelope sometimes, I also have some of the same failings myself, but hey, it's part of what makes you colorful! You contribute wisdom and humor and I for one would miss that! If all we have is sterile conversation and politically correct statements, then we are truly in trouble! We must continue to have learned sounding boards like yourself, Dr. Bill, Tom, Ghost, and all the others here who post and contribute to this wonderful site!!!

Jerk up those boot straps and stiffen that upper lip.
Or in your words, grow a pair and get back in the game!!!
We need ya here.
 
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