oldspurguy said:
Dick, do you really think that all it took for Fat's to gain his notariety and success was to jump up and say, "I'm Minnesota Fats from 'The Hustler"?
How far do you think that would have gotten the average Joe? Fat's had talent and charisma in spades. I enjoyed viewing his BCA HOF speech that the Beard has on his site. To say that stealing the persona of Minnesota Fats, in itself, is responsible for his success, is hard to swallow.
In the 70's I went to an exhibition Lou Butera gave in Austin, TX. I asked him his opinion of Fat's. He quickly gave the same opinion that a lot of pros had at the time, I remember him saying, "Fat's only played in one professional tournament and he came in dead last, and I have the newspaper clipping to prove it."
I carried this opinion until many years later, I heard differently from guys like Helfert and Fred B. Sounds like there was some sour grapes from some because of Fat's bragging and the amount of notariety he achieved.
I have to say I find The Beard's arguments compelling and well stated. I think Fat's did more for pool and one pocket than Tevis, Gleason, etc.
Freddy, no need for the heiroglyphics, your information regarding Fat's level of play is appreciated!!
OSG,
You have grossly mis-stated the intent of my post, I never once said Fats did not have charm, charisma, and a real presence about him, in fact I always lauded those attributes. He was truly one unique individual.
What I said was, had it NOT been for the movie...he would never have gained a PUBLIC persona...ever. He would have only been known and appreciated in pool lore, by pool players, for many years after he was gone.
Fat's was well past his prime in 1961..the movie gave him a new lease on life...Just like the senior tour did for Arnie and Jack...the difference being... EVERYBODY allready knew their names.
For Fat's, there would have been NO "Celebrity Billiards",.. NO TV appearances,.. and very probably NO Billiard product endorsment's, had it not been for the movie.
I further quantified it by saying, stop any man on the street, prior to 1961... and ask him to name one or two pool players. 99.9% of them would have said "Willy Mosconi, or maybe Willie Hoppe". Those were the only names that had ANY recognition in those days.
After the movie..."Minnesita Fat's" (not Rudolph Wanderone, few even knew his real name)... became a household name, whenever anybody mentioned pool.
What a coincidence, huh ?
NOBODY, outside of pool "insiders", had a clue about Ed Kelly, Jersey Red, or Rag's, or Johnny Irish, or any of dozens of other names WE as pool player's, had handed down to us. Even the average guy in the pool room didn't have a clue who was, or who was not, in the BCA or 1P Hall of Fame.
There is a hell of a difference between public notoriety...and being well known by a few thousand hard core pool player's and pool room detectives. If Fat's was not more show, than substance...wouldn't he allready be in the One Pocket HOF ?
There are no sour grapes here OSG...only what we should all know to be the truth.
Fat's was a hell of a salesman, and I agree, few could have "sold" themselves better than he did...AFTER 1961.
PS..I know Jay was a big fan of Fatty, but I think even he might realize the realities...I know Freddy won't...he thinks a bottom feeder like Detroit Whitey, deserved fame and recognition..
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