i need advice here

lll

Verified Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2007
Messages
16,137
my pocket is where the cue ball is
we both need one
whats the shot for me
i am sorry i didnt take a picture of what i shot but i will diagram later
 

Attachments

12squared

Verified Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2005
Messages
2,184
I would just hit it like I was cutting it in to the left hand pocket slowly (pocket speed), or hit the 2 railer with high karate with speed like I'm shooting a 4 railer to send it back close to where it began.
 

catkins

Verified Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2016
Messages
1,294
I cut bank this one rail with high inside and hold the cue ball on the top rail
 

Dennis "Whitey" Young

Verified Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2017
Messages
2,293
The easiest way to make this ball is to just use straight high, absolutely no right or left english, this way you improve the accuracy in banking the ball two rails to your hole.
The high will hold the cb down table, even though you use close to pocket speed, for the ob being so close to the rail will cause the cb to obtain low coming off the rail and keep it down table.
You would never IMO pass on this shot in this scenario.
I of course do not have the experience as others, but this is how I see it. Whitey

Edit: I have to recant my statement after taking it to the table. In two railing the ob I would have to hit it very hard to get the cb to get the karate effect and to stay down table, so undesirable.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/Q87QAKPR2aLzDMP18 I also was unable to hold the cb with straight high, on my table the karate effect is less than on other tables. So I went to high reverse and got it to hold at pocket speed.

I pushed out to almost an identical situation as this in playing 9-ball. The difference was I pushed to where the cb was near frozen to the foot rail, I had the 8 ball in just the position Larry has his ob, but the 9 ball was also on the head rail by 1st diamond. Of course the opponent did not accept the push. I stoned it with high inside reverse english and the cb hugged and went to the long rail and tremendously reversed back and killed, and I was nearly straight in on the 9.
Of course this requires softer playing cushions. This is what made 9-ball shoot-out such a great game, stoning it after they gave it back!
Thanks Larry for the thread, it brought back a good memory! Whitey
 
Last edited:

One Pocket Ghost

Verified Member
Joined
May 25, 2004
Messages
9,536
my pocket is where the cue ball is
we both need one
whats the shot for me
i am sorry i didnt take a picture of what i shot but i will diagram later
Larry, you can pm me re. this position if you want to.
 
Last edited:

sappo

Verified Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2006
Messages
1,286
Larry, I have a question about the Xmas stocking, are you late in taking it down or just very early in putting it up?

As for the shot I would just slow role the cb up onto the object ball and wait for a better shot.

As far as advise, it depends what % you could make the 2 rail or 1 rail bank and what control you would have over the cb so as not to leave an easy cross side bank if you miss. If its a low % then you must duck. Keith
 
Last edited:

vapros

Verified Member
Joined
May 24, 2004
Messages
3,853
Yes, I would vote for Catkins' shot, and Whitey hit it great, as usual - but I have to note that he picked a better spot to shoot it from. The cue ball was nearly in the jaws of the pocket in Larry's picture.
 

BRLongArm

Verified Member
Joined
Feb 19, 2006
Messages
810
In bank pool, you would shoot it two rails with speed and let your cue ball end up on the foot rail. But in one pocket this is one of those shots where the juice is not worth the squeeze, and you just move it to his side rail with the cue ball even or even higher to prevent the kick bank. This will leave him just thinning the ball and sending the cue ball down table near your side rail. In humid areas, this will allow you to four rail the ball to your pocket, but in most places, you just have to win the first shot safety battle.
 

Dennis "Whitey" Young

Verified Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2017
Messages
2,293
Yes, I would vote for Catkins' shot, and Whitey hit it great, as usual - but I have to note that he picked a better spot to shoot it from. The cue ball was nearly in the jaws of the pocket in Larry's picture.
Your right, I cheated. Usually I take a picture with my phone camera off the computer screen, and then go out to the table and replicate the position of the balls, I did not do that this time. my bad! LOL! Whitey
 

Tom Wirth

Verified Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2004
Messages
2,702
Larry, Attempting to get aggressive here and playing to pocket the ball for the win requires turning the cue ball loose.
You had better know what you are doing before playing either the cut straight back or the two rail bank.
I'm betting against anyone here, game for game and shooting from this position while taking either of those shots.

Do you remember the four safety positions we talked about when dealing with one ball?
Which of the four options do you think is easiest to preform in this situation? I would suggest
to you that there are only two reasonable choices to consider.

I suggest you see for yourself which of these two options work best for you. You will quickly determine which options
are unreasonable and which are not. I have plenty of confidence that you will find the right solution rather quickly
without any additional help from us.

Tom
 
Last edited:

cincy_kid

Verified Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2015
Messages
5,397
If I am playing an aggressive shot and I am a better shooter than my opponent, I would shoot catkins shot as well, that's the first thing I saw.

For a defensive shot, I shoot 12squared's shot of cutting the ball to the left corner to miss it and bring the cb back down to the foot rail.
 

wincardona

Verified Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
7,556
Larry, you need to try to control the OB by SOFTLY cutting it to the left with two tips of right English. You suggested bringing the cue ball back down to the foot rail which would be wrong because you are not controlling the OB using a hard speed. By controlling the cue ball to stay at the top end of the table you are limiting the ability of your opponent by leaving awkward angles for possible return banks. The right English will aid you in creating awkward angles for return banks as well.

Advanced method of executing this shot would be to use a low right ball with two tips of low right English. This technique will allow you to shoot this shot with a slightly harder speed, the low English will slow the cue ball up as it travels down the table but the English will stay on the cue ball to give you the desired result needed. This method of playing the shot takes a little practice to familiarize yourself with the masse that takes place with shots of this type.

Dr. Bill
 
Last edited:

Bob Jewett

Verified Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2005
Messages
369
Yes, I would vote for Catkins' shot, and Whitey hit it great, as usual - but I have to note that he picked a better spot to shoot it from. The cue ball was nearly in the jaws of the pocket in Larry's picture.
I've played that shot before, but the position in the OP requires a lot of side and is jacked up. Here is what it looks like:

CropperCapture[47].jpg
 

Bob Jewett

Verified Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2005
Messages
369
Chris, you need to try to control the OB by SOFTLY cutting it to the left with one tip of right English. You suggested bringing the cue ball back down to the foot rail which would be wrong because you are not controlling the OB using a hard speed. By controlling the cue ball to stay at the top end of the table you are limiting the ability of your opponent by leaving awkward angles for possible return banks. The right English will aid you in creating awkward angles for return banks as well.

Dr. Bill
Something like this?

CropperCapture[48].jpg
 

Jeff sparks

Verified Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2015
Messages
3,151
Larry, I see a couple of possibilities...
(#1). Use a tip of right, aim for a 1/2 full hit, ( it’ll be less when it gets there ) and think of the proper speed with which to shoot this shot before ever getting down to shoot it, you must feel the speed... in this case I would use the opponents side pocket as a speed target... at least that’s how I try to gauge speed when shooting a speed sensitive shot, don’t know how others do it?

( #2 ) is difficult, but doable... kick very softly one rail off his long rail and lay on the object ball...
 

Tom Wirth

Verified Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2004
Messages
2,702
Doc. Bill "Larry, you need to try to control the OB by SOFTLY cutting it to the left with two tips of right English. "

So Larry, The good Doctor's shot creates a situation where the cue ball and object ball end up table and on opposite side rails, basically
parallel to the head rail. This is probably the easiest solution to execute.
What position do we call this?

Second question:

Of the four safety options that we have discussed, what is the one other viable option?

Tom
 

Billy Jackets

Verified Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2011
Messages
1,803
I've played that shot before, but the position in the OP requires a lot of side and is jacked up. Here is what it looks like:

View attachment 432180
I've played that shot before, but the position in the OP requires a lot of side and is jacked up. Here is what it looks like:

View attachment 432180
This shot works much better for me on newer cloth. I was talking with Bernie Pettipiece before a US Open and I showed him this shot , he practiced it a while and got to hitting it pretty good, I think we both liked 3 o clock English , but agreed that it is mostly a desperation shot
When he came back from the tournament he said he had been playing Santos and there were 2 balls on his side of the table, in, or near the kitchen, both went and Santos left him this shot , with the ob a few inches to the left, Bernie needed all 3 balls.
He said he made the shot and got perfect shape on the other balls, he also said Santos looked shocked. lol no doubt.
Then he laughed and said, I got up and missed the next ball.
I am not saying I am a player of Bernies caliber , only that I know some shots, even a lot of great players do not know.
Dr Bills shot seems the most likely to succeed, for less than champion speed players. It is not without it's dangers though , I don't use a low deflection cue, I like being able to move my cueball around, I know that is not how they play now , but I am too old to want to change, so I need to be careful with a shot like this , that I don't hit the ball too thick or thin, because of deflection. I am very envious of anyone who could even hit the ob while jacked up and with a lot of side spin,let alone have a chance of making it , that shot has just never been in my arsenal.
I went down and shot it every way I could think of , Dr Bills shot was the best except scratching in the side pocket came in play for me too many times . my speed is off from not playing and when I turned it down a knotch , the cueball deflected more and I missed the whole ball . The correct shot for me is the kick off the side rail , especially if the ob is not frozen. Even if it is , spotting a ball from there is not as bad as it seems.
If I were healthy and playing all the time , my speed was good and I wasn't betting more than my guts could stand, I would probably have played the spin shot , it was the first shot I saw after dismissing the 1 railer. But , in my altered state, I am kicking at that ball . I would clean the path between them, and hit it with just above center ball.
I just came back from the basement and saw that 12 sq had shot the same shots I had , except he hit them better .
I thought I would be the scapegoat with the 1 rail lag kick,
 
Last edited:
Top