I may not like it, but I gotta do it.

wincardona

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I may not like it, but I gotta do it.:help

This thread apply's to the times when we as people/players are confronted with situations where there really aren't any good options other than a tough one.:eek: I'm sure we all know and have been confronted numerous times in life, or playing a game with a situation where we only had one good option, and that really sucks.:( But the reality of it is...pay me now, or you figure to get charged double later. I'm sure we can relate to what i'm referring to, many times in our life experiences. The point i'm trying to make is, we would serve ourselves best if we prepared ourselves to make tough decisions when they surfaced.

Playing pool, particularly one pocket there will be times when we are confronted with a situation where there is actually only one good option available. We will try our hardest to find a simpler solution, and settle for a compromise, just to avoid playing the shot we know is the right shot, but were scared to do it. Does this sound familiar? I'll bet it does, i've been guilty of dogging it many many times, and yes avoiding the right thing to do just because it's tough, and looking elsewhere is a form of dogging it. So how do we break this habit? The easiest way to break this habit is to develop our game and build confidence as a player, or we can just say screw it I gotta do what I gotta do, and go for it. By adopting this mindset we now are prepared to accept the challenge, but more importantly we are feeling good about the way we are feeling about ourselves, because we realize we are going into a danger zone with no help, and it's ok.:D Once we familiarize ourselves with this type of pressure we will feed off of it and feel that we are a better player for it.

I'm bringing this up because of a thread that I participated in, in the bank pool forum. There was a shot that came up where there were a few options other than the best option, and certain players were trying to avoid shooting a shot that was clearly the right shot because it was a little daunting. Well the player shot the right shot and benefited from it, but in spite of that certain people still argued against the decision the player made, with shooting the shot.

Pool just as in life there are going to be times when we need to do something that is difficult, and if we prepare ourselves for the inevitable we will be training our heart and gut to make the decision for us. And it doesn't ever get any better than that. Ask any champion.

Dr. Bill
 

fred bentivegna

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Confession

Confession

Believe it or not, IMO, what you just described is the only real flaw/mistake/weakness I ever saw in your one pocket game. I held it against you and never brought it up because we were usually adversaries. It is amazing that you are dealing with it objectively, and have a real honest understanding of a super important (secret) concept now. When did the light come on?

I always thought that when these dreadful situations came up, your analytically- percentage, driven mind, would resent being put in such a fix, and even if you decided to proceed with the correct, however improbable, shot, you would not proceed wholeheartedly. And that cost you. And kept you from realizing your real potential.

This is what I put up on my website (for free) off of this link. This delves into more of what you were talking about. (Of course I said it first a few years ago)
http://bankingwiththebeard.com/?p=354


A Secret of One Pocket

Next, is what I think of as a secret, or important concept of One pocket, and probably all the other pool games also. I call it a secret because I have observed it in many fewer players than you would think. The best way to prove it, is for you to observe it yourself. I was taught it by Gene Skinner, and I later watched Ronnie Allen, Bugs, Cornbread Red and other successful pool killers employ and rely on it. I’m not so much in tune anymore with today’s player, but I would suggest you observe, Cliff Joyner and Scott Frost for today’s examples.

They utilize it for sure, and that’s whether or not they consciously realize that they are doing it, and what it is that they are doing. Everybody with any common sense knows pretty much what to do in ordinary situations in One pocket. That can all be easily taught. You don’t need me for that. What separates the good from the exceptional, is what I am trying to relate. I will try to describe this through some examples.

When a player gets a tough shot, or is put in a terrible situation, with only a marginal chance of making the shot or getting out of the trap, the normal human reaction to that plight, is fear, anxiety, doubt, and rightly so. Plus, those feelings are directly proportional to the added pressures of the particular game situation. Albeit, just how much is riding on the game? Key game in a big money session or tournament match? The enlightened player takes on a different perspective. He realizes his situation is near hopeless and desperate, so he takes a rational, practical approach. Fear, anxiety and doubt is not going to help an already low percentage situation. Plus, those feelings are there, they are real, and they ain’t going to go away. The enlightened player acknowledges them, but doesn’t try to fight them off, he just shifts into another place. The key is to accept and consider the absolute worst thing that could happen. Next, make peace with the horror and then look for the positive elements. What are some of them? One, he is not expected to produce in these circumstances. If he is shooting at a shot where the odds are prohibitive against him, if he misses he won’t be embarrassed. That alone should remove some pressure. Next, if he somehow comes with the shot and makes it, his opponent may feel disparate, frustrated, and probably intimidated. So the player can reap the rewards of success at little cost to himself, since he was probably going to lose anyway. “I have nothing to lose, and everything to gain.”
Base every difficult shot situation on this premise and you will go a long way.

To reiterate, when you are ahead, play conservative and only take high percentage shots, and when you are behind, there is no such thing as a low percentage shot. Take this principle to the extremes.
Example: If you have to shoot a sellout bank to get out of the trap, don’t wallow in considerations, but instead shoot the shot with verve and gusto. You will never get better advice than that. Wouldn’t that be more fun then agonizing over the shot that you have to shoot anyway?

The above actually is a decent definition of the concept. If a guy just followed that advice diligently he would do OK. Obviously, to get the real power out of that advice you would need to go deeper. Top One pocket players, if they like you, will usually give you that much to work with.

Singleness of purpose and total commitment.
That means to forget about everything but making and succeeding with the shot. 100% effort is required, which means that you don’t waste any percentage of your effort by compromising and wasting some of your power trying, and hoping, to maybe get safe in case you miss it. (“Gotta shoot it like you mean it.”) Remember, you have already made peace with missing the shot and losing, those thoughts and considerations are all behind you.

OK, now here is where the mysticism and the real power comes in:
The very fact that you have made peace with the consequences, and have now committed totally, opens up some, “Joss,” “Positive karma,” “Power of prayer,” “Guardian angel,” “Oneness with the Universe,” etc., or whatever — that will provide assistance, and help you to your goal!
The shot actually becomes easier! The odds against, are not valid! Odds, begone! To speak quantitatively, if the shot is normally 5 or 10 to 1 against, you can throw those odds out the window. The odds are reduced proportionately, according to the amount of your concentration and commitment. That’s the real reason Ronnie Allen, Bugs and Efren could make those incredible shots to get out of “death traps.”
 

androd

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I may not like it, but I gotta do it.:help

This thread apply's to the times when we as people/players are confronted with situations where there really aren't any good options other than a tough one.:eek: I'm sure we all know and have been confronted numerous times in life, or playing a game with a situation where we only had one good option, and that really sucks.:( But the reality of it is...pay me now, or you figure to get charged double later. I'm sure we can relate to what i'm referring to, many times in our life experiences. The point i'm trying to make is, we would serve ourselves best if we prepared ourselves to make tough decisions when they surfaced.

Playing pool, particularly one pocket there will be times when we are confronted with a situation where there is actually only one good option available. We will try our hardest to find a simpler solution, and settle for a compromise, just to avoid playing the shot we know is the right shot, but were scared to do it. Does this sound familiar? I'll bet it does, i've been guilty of dogging it many many times, and yes avoiding the right thing to do just because it's tough, and looking elsewhere is a form of dogging it. So how do we break this habit? The easiest way to break this habit is to develop our game and build confidence as a player, or we can just say screw it I gotta do what I gotta do, and go for it. By adopting this mindset we now are prepared to accept the challenge, but more importantly we are feeling good about the way we are feeling about ourselves, because we realize we are going into a danger zone with no help, and it's ok.:D Once we familiarize ourselves with this type of pressure we will feed off of it and feel that we are a better player for it.


Pool just as in life there are going to be times when we need to do something that is difficult, and if we prepare ourselves for the inevitable we will be training our heart and gut to make the decision for us. And it doesn't ever get any better than that. Ask any champion.

Dr. Bill
Just to recap.
TOUGHEN UP ! :)
Rod.
 

SJDinPHX

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Just to recap.
TOUGHEN UP ! :)
Rod.
Amen Rodman,...As usual, (unlike poster's #1 and 2)..you have cut to the chase WITHOUT a page or two, of boring rhetoric, while trying to PROVE your point ...Kudos ! ;)

SuperDuck <---Used to practice those same qualities, 'til he became to old and senile, and dealt with nothing but lunatic's...Thanks for reminding me. :rolleyes:
 

usblues

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If you....

If you....

have good position dont play it.[Buddy].Sometimes the best shot isnt the one to take.[Bobby Jones]The point is to look ahead not where your at.More reasons to be light on your feet,good thread Mr.I,cheers,James
 

Guest

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Just to recap.
TOUGHEN UP ! :)
Rod.
Rod, you are the antithesis of Artie. That does not mean that Artie does not have some very good things to say. I personally like and appreciate his insights. You have a different style. I like yours, too.

Clare

P.S. Freddy and Billy, and all the rest of us have our own style, too. I particularly like Sunnyone's style. To me, it's all good. :)
 

Fast Lenny

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Sometimes when your back is to the wall you gotta just shoot and maybe turn things around, worst thing that can happen is you lose the game and some coin. Its not life or death but can feel like it in some ways. :cool:
 

wincardona

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Believe it or not, IMO, what you just described is the only real flaw/mistake/weakness I ever saw in your one pocket game. I held it against you and never brought it up because we were usually adversaries. It is amazing that you are dealing with it objectively, and have a real honest understanding of a super important (secret) concept now. When did the light come on? You have misinterpreted my post, and obviously didn't understand my message.:sorry My message is ..short and simple..Play your best game (whatever style it is) and believe in what you feel. If a tough situation appears, train yourself to except the challenge if you know it's the right thing to do. Not to except it because of all the things you mentioned, but to accept it because it's the right thing to do. With this concept as your game raises so does your confidence.
I always thought that when these dreadful situations came up, your analytically- percentage, driven mind, would resent being put in such a fix, and even if you decided to proceed with the correct, however improbable, shot, you would not proceed wholeheartedly. And that cost you. And kept you from realizing your real potential. Well you actually fooled yourself again, when I played great pool I relished the challenge, but yet played a control game. A great or very good player doesn't have to be an over aggressive player to show heart. That's where you were fooled. What cost me from reaching my potential was because I quit, early in my prime.

This is what I put up on my website (for free) off of this link. This delves into more of what you were talking about. (Of course I said it first a few years ago)
http://bankingwiththebeard.com/?p=354


A Secret of One Pocket

Next, is what I think of as a secret, or important concept of One pocket, and probably all the other pool games also. I call it a secret because I have observed it in many fewer players than you would think. The best way to prove it, is for you to observe it yourself. I was taught it by Gene Skinner, and I later watched Ronnie Allen, Bugs, Cornbread Red and other successful pool killers employ and rely on it. All the players you mentioned are very aggressive players, seems like you have this admiration for the overly aggressive player. Believe it or not there are many other players that play with my concept. Players like Hall, Sigel, Hopkins, Mizerak, Gentile, and players like Gentile. Yes these players play a solid game and have trained themselves to take on a challenge if it comes there way just as I did when I was playing my best. I’m not so much in tune anymore with today’s player, but I would suggest you observe, Cliff Joyner and Scott Frost for today’s examples.

They utilize it for sure, and that’s whether or not they consciously realize that they are doing it, and what it is that they are doing. Everybody with any common sense knows pretty much what to do in ordinary situations in One pocket. That can all be easily taught. You don’t need me for that. What separates the good from the exceptional, is what I am trying to relate. I will try to describe this through some examples.

When a player gets a tough shot, or is put in a terrible situation, with only a marginal chance of making the shot or getting out of the trap, the normal human reaction to that plight, is fear, anxiety, doubt, and rightly so. Plus, those feelings are directly proportional to the added pressures of the particular game situation. Albeit, just how much is riding on the game? Key game in a big money session or tournament match? The enlightened player takes on a different perspective. He realizes his situation is near hopeless and desperate, so he takes a rational, practical approach. Fear, anxiety and doubt is not going to help an already low percentage situation. Plus, those feelings are there, they are real, and they ain’t going to go away. The enlightened player acknowledges them, but doesn’t try to fight them off, he just shifts into another place. The key is to accept and consider the absolute worst thing that could happen. Next, make peace with the horror and then look for the positive elements. What are some of them? One, he is not expected to produce in these circumstances. If he is shooting at a shot where the odds are prohibitive against him, if he misses he won’t be embarrassed. That alone should remove some pressure. Next, if he somehow comes with the shot and makes it, his opponent may feel disparate, frustrated, and probably intimidated. So the player can reap the rewards of success at little cost to himself, since he was probably going to lose anyway. “I have nothing to lose, and everything to gain.”
Base every difficult shot situation on this premise and you will go a long way.

To reiterate, when you are ahead, play conservative and only take high percentage shots, and when you are behind, there is no such thing as a low percentage shot. Take this principle to the extremes.
Example: If you have to shoot a sellout bank to get out of the trap, don’t wallow in considerations, but instead shoot the shot with verve and gusto. You will never get better advice than that. Wouldn’t that be more fun then agonizing over the shot that you have to shoot anyway?

The above actually is a decent definition of the concept. If a guy just followed that advice diligently he would do OK. Obviously, to get the real power out of that advice you would need to go deeper. Top One pocket players, if they like you, will usually give you that much to work with.

Singleness of purpose and total commitment.
That means to forget about everything but making and succeeding with the shot. 100% effort is required, which means that you don’t waste any percentage of your effort by compromising and wasting some of your power trying, and hoping, to maybe get safe in case you miss it. (“Gotta shoot it like you mean it.”) Remember, you have already made peace with missing the shot and losing, those thoughts and considerations are all behind you.

OK, now here is where the mysticism and the real power comes in:
The very fact that you have made peace with the consequences, and have now committed totally, opens up some, “Joss,” “Positive karma,” “Power of prayer,” “Guardian angel,” “Oneness with the Universe,” etc., or whatever — that will provide assistance, and help you to your goal!
The shot actually becomes easier! The odds against, are not valid! Odds, begone! To speak quantitatively, if the shot is normally 5 or 10 to 1 against, you can throw those odds out the window. The odds are reduced proportionately, according to the amount of your concentration and commitment. That’s the real reason Ronnie Allen, Bugs and Efren could make those incredible shots to get out of “death traps.”
You don't have to be a killer, or a champion to play with intellegence and heart. You just have to believe in what you know is right, THEN DO IT. That's what i'm selling.

Dr. Bill
 
Last edited:

wincardona

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Rod,

Do you think they're talking to us?:confused::)

Dennis
I'm in a talkin mood, I guess I was talking to whoever wanted to listen. Would you rather have Artie type it for me, and include some of his thoughts?

Glad you read it that means a lot, really.;)
And thanks for not giving me your usual critique, I feel better now.:D

Dr. Bill
 

wincardona

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Amen Rodman,...As usual, (unlike poster's #1 and 2)..you have cut to the chase WITHOUT a page or two, of boring rhetoric, while trying to PROVE your point ...Kudos ! ;)

SuperDuck <---Used to practice those same qualities, 'til he became to old and senile, and dealt with nothing but lunatic's...Thanks for reminding me. :rolleyes:
You have just confirmed once again how good you moved playing one pocket. You've always had it figured out.:heh

Dr. Bill
 

wincardona

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have good position dont play it.[Buddy].Sometimes the best shot isnt the one to take.[Bobby Jones]The point is to look ahead not where your at.More reasons to be light on your feet,good thread Mr.I,cheers,James
You have the strongest game of deception that I know, but for some reason I believe your no stranger to the winners circle.:p

Dr. Bill
 

wincardona

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Rod, you are the antithesis of Artie. That does not mean that Artie does not have some very good things to say. I personally like and appreciate his insights. You have a different style. I like yours, too.

Clare

P.S. Freddy and Billy, and all the rest of us have our own style, too. I particularly like Sunnyone's style. To me, it's all good. :)
Clare, I think you also adhere to my way of thinking, and then go on in your eloquent way.:)

Dr. Bill
 

wincardona

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Sometimes when your back is to the wall you gotta just shoot and maybe turn things around, worst thing that can happen is you lose the game and some coin. Its not life or death but can feel like it in some ways. :cool:
Lenny, your almost there, almost, but definitely in the right vain.

Dr. Bill
 

Cowboy Dennis

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I would like to suggest that for players like Ronnie Allen, Efren, Bugs, Cornbread, Cliff & Frost it's very easy to have a "nothing to lose & everything to gain" mentality because they were/are usually being staked in the games they played/play. They had "nothing to lose & everything to gain" by the virtue of not betting their own.

I'm guessing that unless I'm forgetting someone here then I've played Red more than anyone who posts on this site. There was always a sense of danger when playing Red, like you never knew what might happen. But every time he played me he was betting his own money and when he chose a shot he protected his money. I always knew that I just had to win 3 or 4 games and he was out of money. That's not to detract from his game at all, he did some extraordinary things at times when in trouble (and when not in trouble) but his legend and other legends are built on what they did in high-dollar games when they were being staked, not playing relatively cheap against a nobody, even if it was a nobody who wanted to bet higher.

To claim that these guys named above have something special is not completely accurate. That statement needs to be qualified with "they had something special when being staked in high-dollar games". With that I have no problem. What they had was nothing to lose & everything to gain. They were/are great players for cash because it wasn't their cash.

That makes all the difference in the world.

Dennis
 

Cowboy Dennis

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I'm in a talkin mood, I guess I was talking to whoever wanted to listen. Would you rather have Artie type it for me, and include some of his thoughts?

Glad you read it that means a lot, really.;)
And thanks for not giving me your usual critique, I feel better now.:D

Dr. Bill
Bill,

You make some good points but to tie it in to the Bank forum didn't quite get it for me. There are quite often several shots that present and sometimes there is only one good choice. Different players see it different.

Definitely an interesting thread and much better than the crap that's been posted here for more than a week.

P.S. No, I don't want AB typing it up:eek::D

Dennis
 

beatle

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the only way to know which is the right shot or the right thing to do is to know the percentages of all the possible outcomes at least to a reasonable guess that is close.

only then can you make the right choice and you will then make the right choice as you will know it gives you the best chance.
 

wincardona

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Bill,

You make some good points but to tie it in to the Bank forum didn't quite get it for me. There are quite often several shots that present and sometimes there is only one good choice. Different players see it different.

Definitely an interesting thread and much better than the crap that's been posted here for more than a week.

P.S. No, I don't want AB typing it up:eek::D

Dennis
My point was , understanding what the right shot is, and not get frightened to shoot it because of the penalty it carries. The right shot is a shot you know how to execute, that's what makes it the right shot for you. And when you look at the shot you understand the possibilities that the shot carries(good and bad) so if in your gut you still know it's the right shot, then focus and shoot it. I was referring to the shot on the 7 ball that Piggy eventually shot.

Allow me to use this as a comparison of how I feel the mind works. It may be stupid but it's what I believe. It has to do with panic.

Have you ever been looking for a location while driving your car, and really weren't sure if you have traveled far enough down the road to have reached it? Well you've been there before and you feel that you haven't reached it yet, but your afraid to go further because you may have passed it. So you turn around and back track, only to find out had you driven a little further before turning around you would have reached it.

I knew I had not reached it, so I convinced myself that I must have and turned around, simply because I didn't trust myself when I thought I was right. Plain and simple, I dogged it. We do the same things when we play pool, many of us. We feel that we should do one thing because we feel it's right but get deterred because of negative thoughts.

I hope you understand my logic.:sorry

Dr. Bill
 

wincardona

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the only way to know which is the right shot or the right thing to do is to know the percentages of all the possible outcomes at least to a reasonable guess that is close.

only then can you make the right choice and you will then make the right choice as you will know it gives you the best chance.
That's right, but once you understand what the right shot is for you, you then have to shoot it. Often players are spooked into playing another shot other than the right shot because they are thinking negatively.

My point is familiarizing yourself with the pressures of always shooting the shot you believe is the right shot..regardless of the consequences if missed. With this mind set you will eventually raise your level of performance in pressure situations. Except the challenge and play your game.

Dr. Bill
 
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