How playable is this bank?

Dudley

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I have seen it go in at times and I was curious to hear others opinion on this shot. Keep in mind I have the 10 frozen to the side rail. When I practice this shot I have very inconsistent results. I know that if you stun the rock you get more spin transfer on the object ball but over the full length of the table it seems that it might not matter that much. I tend to believe that it is more about catching the right amount of the point then the english transfer.

I have heard stories of players that drain this bank like it is a basic straight back.

Student Dudley

[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@3ACXQ4BCpA3CEUK4DCpg3EEmO3FChi4GBjO3HAcw4IAEe3Jawl4KDoC3LBKO3MFrX4NBal3OFaC3PQWJ3eawl2eWSk3eaEI3kQWJ3kahB7kTLq3kLcA1kbiR1kRlk@[/CUETABLE]
 

u12armresl

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On Grady's video he shoots a similiar shot and I believe he says he's even money on it. However, the cue ball is closer to the rail
 

Cowboy Dennis

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Dudley said:
I have seen it go in at times and I was curious to hear others opinion on this shot. Keep in mind I have the 10 frozen to the side rail. When I practice this shot I have very inconsistent results. I know that if you stun the rock you get more spin transfer on the object ball but over the full length of the table it seems that it might not matter that much. I tend to believe that it is more about catching the right amount of the point then the english transfer.

I have heard stories of players that drain this bank like it is a basic straight back.

Student Dudley

[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@3ACXQ4BCpA3CEUK4DCpg3EEmO3FChi4GBjO3HAcw4IAEe3Jawl4KDoC3LBKO3MFrX4NBal3OFaC3PQWJ3eawl2eWSk3eaEI3kQWJ3kahB7kTLq3kLcA1kbiR1kRlk@[/CUETABLE]

Dudley,

Are you hitting this rail first?

Dennis
 

Dudley

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Cowboy Dennis said:
Dudley,

Are you hitting this rail first?

Dennis
No,

But because its frozen there is a very fine line between rail first and not.

Not really sure what is the best way to shoot this shot is. I have only hit it good by accident.
 
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Cowboy Dennis

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Dudley said:
No,

But because its frozen there is a very fine line between rail first and not.

Not really sure what is the best way to shoot this shot was. I have only hit it good by accident.

I've never shot this in a game and don't know if I ever would but when I practiced it I would hit it rail first. I got pretty good at putting the cueball where I've shown but I can't say I ever got good at making the bank.

P.S. I don't think I've ever hit it with follow so I can't answer your specific question.

[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@3BOCP3INlk4KbXU4PWRn3VOCP3VLHy3dNlk3dMfo3dHxe4fbXU4fbvw1fUnj4fcht4kWRn4kbon4kbXk3karx3kSKi3kPxf3kPhc4uCUU@[/CUETABLE]
 

Dudley

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Cowboy Dennis said:
I've never shot this in a game and don't know if I ever would but when I practiced it I would hit it rail first. I got pretty good at putting the cueball where I've shown but I can't say I ever got good at making the bank.

P.S. I don't think I've ever hit it with follow so I can't answer your specific question.

[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@3BOCP3INlk4KbXU4PWRn3VOCP3VLHy3dNlk3dMfo3dHxe4fbXU4fbvw1fUnj4fcht4kWRn4kbon4kbXk3karx3kSKi3kPxf3kPhc4uCUU@[/CUETABLE]

This makes sense to play rail first to get more spin transfer although with my posted scenario it would seem to be too aggressive to play that line.

[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@3ACXQ4BCpA3CEUK4DCpg3EEmO3FChi4GBjO3HAcw4IAEe3Jawl4KDoC3LBKO3MFrX4NBal3OFaC3PQWJ3eawl3ebFQ2eWSj3eYnA3kQWJ3kapF3kaYB4kbmO4kFam@[/CUETABLE]
 

lll

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the "twister bank" which grady shows and gives credit to bugs as being one of his favorite banks the object ball is off the rail. whether you can get enough collision induced throw to twist a frozen ball in im not sure. FREDDY help us here?
 

Cowboy Dennis

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lll said:
the "twister bank" which grady shows and gives credit to bugs as being one of his favorite banks the object ball is off the rail. whether you can get enough collision induced throw to twist a frozen ball in im not sure. FREDDY help us here?

We don't need anybodys help to determine anything. The ball banks straight-back as I diagrammed it, just not often enough to be a good shot. At least not for me.

And GO YANKEES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

fred bentivegna

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Off the rail

Off the rail

u12armresl said:
On Grady's video he shoots a similiar shot and I believe he says he's even money on it. However, the cue ball is closer to the rail
Right on one point. The cue ball is only a few inches off the rail when Grady shoots it. However the important point is that the object ball is Not Frozen to the rail. From a 1/4 to a 1/2 inch out from the cushion.

I shoot that shot from several different situations in my DVD, Banks That Dont Go -- But Do.

However, in my same DVD, I shoot the shot described in the initial post on this thread, whereby the object ball is frozen. Of course, I also show you how to make it.


the Beard

Sorry to hear that nobody needs help with making this, I thought it was kinda hard, since I have been playing 50 years and nobody has of yet made it deliberately on me.
 
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Cowboy Dennis

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fred bentivegna said:
Sorry to hear that nobody needs help with making this, I thought it was kinda hard, since I have been playing 50 years and nobody has of yet made it deliberately on me.

Freddy,

A little touchy this morning aren't we? I wrote that we don't need anybody to tell us if the shot goes as I diagrammed it. I know it goes. I have shot it thousands of times in practice and even made it a few times.

Help or advice on how to hit it is an entirely different thing altogether.

Dennis
 

fred bentivegna

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Getting touchy and grouchy in my dotage

Getting touchy and grouchy in my dotage

Cowboy Dennis said:
Freddy,

A little touchy this morning aren't we? I wrote that we don't need anybody to tell us if the shot goes as I diagrammed it. I know it goes. I have shot it thousands of times in practice and even made it a few times.

Help or advice on how to hit it is an entirely different thing altogether.

Dennis
I am getting a little thin skinned. Especially when I cite a particular event or situation THAT I PERSONALLY ATTENDED, and relate what happened, instead of entering a different viewpoint from someone else who might have been there or had a personal stake in the situation, I keep getting, "I dont think so." or, "That dont sound right." or, "How could that be?" THOSE ARE NOT LEGITIMATE ARGUMENTS!
I dont like being brushed off and dismissed like some prankish little child. I said in another thread that Fats could beat Weenie Beanie and Strawberry. I also cited why I thought that was true. I havent as yet had one reply to that one.

the Beard

PS You must hit rail first with english.
 

Cowboy Dennis

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fred bentivegna said:
PS You must hit rail first with english.

I don't think so. How could that be? That don't sound right:D .

Just kidding Freddy, cheer up.

Dennis
 

Dudley

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thanks to all for the responses,

I guess I have my answer from Freddy, It does go you just have to know how to shoot it.


Doright
 

Skin

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Dudley said:
thanks to all for the responses,

I guess I have my answer from Freddy, It does go you just have to know how to shoot it.


Doright
Dudley, the practical way to make that shot is shoot to slightly "overcut" the ball for the top corner pocket and use high inside. If you want the cb to just go across, use center inside. The shot is very playable once you get the feel for how much to "overcut" the ob.

Anyway, that's how I do it.

Skin
 

Dudley

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Skin said:
Dudley, the practical way to make that shot is shoot to slightly "overcut" the ball for the top corner pocket and use high inside. If you want the cb to just go across, use center inside. The shot is very playable once you get the feel for how much to "overcut" the ob.

Anyway, that's how I do it.

Skin
thx Skin,

I'll give this a try....

Dud
 

fred bentivegna

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A clearer description

A clearer description

This is from a reply to a PM from a forum member who was unclear, and rightly so, about my advice to go "rail first." He thought simultaneous would work better and he was right.

Actually, it is pretty much simultaneous. I wasnt clear enough in my description. I was just trying too hard to differentiate this shot from the one Grady likes.

the Beard
 

wincardona

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fred bentivegna said:
This is from a reply to a PM from a forum member who was unclear, and rightly so, about my advice to go "rail first." He thought simultaneous would work better and he was right.

Actually, it is pretty much simultaneous. I wasnt clear enough in my description. I was just trying too hard to differentiate this shot from the one Grady likes.

the Beard
Something tells me it would have to be ball first to get the turn needed to bring it back, I really don't know, just a feeling that I have. I believe rail first would transfer the opposite turn on the object ball needed to bring it back.:confused:
 

wincardona

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wincardona said:
Something tells me it would have to be ball first to get the turn needed to bring it back, I really don't know, just a feeling that I have. I believe rail first would transfer the opposite turn on the object ball needed to bring it back.:confused:
I've always thought that what made this bank go was hitting the point a certain way. If so then ball first, or rail first would be inconsequential.
 

SJDinPHX

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Different strokes for different folks !

Different strokes for different folks !

fred bentivegna said:
I am getting a little thin skinned. Especially when I cite a particular event or situation THAT I PERSONALLY ATTENDED, and relate what happened, instead of entering a different viewpoint from someone else who might have been there or had a personal stake in the situation, I keep getting, "I dont think so." or, "That dont sound right." or, "How could that be?" THOSE ARE NOT LEGITIMATE ARGUMENTS!
I dont like being brushed off and dismissed like some prankish little child. I said in another thread that Fats could beat Weenie Beanie and Strawberry. I also cited why I thought that was true. I havent as yet had one reply to that one.

the Beard

PS You must hit rail first with english.
Beardman,

No one is dimissing you, as a "prankish little child". Some of us just happen to have differing opinions...sometimes you act as if that makes us all stupid, just because we don't see things YOUR way...So we politely say "I don't think so"
(and yes, you are getting a LITTLE thin skinned)

All through the 90's, several times a year, Beenie used to accompany his wife, Norma Jean... to Scottsdale. (Phx) She would shop and go to the resort spa's, sometimes with my wife,...and guess what Beenie and I did ?
We always hooked up and played, and even though we were both in our 60's, we still played decent, and had a great time playing semi-sociable ($100-200 a game.) He was my favorite adversary, ever in pool...win or lose, always a gentleman.

I always gave up a little weight to the Bean, just as I did with Fat's when he was past his prime. From those (first hand) observations...
I would rate Bill's game a little above Fat's game, as we all approached senility.

I never played Fat's in his prime...and you, or no one else on this forum did either.

As you always seem to need VERIFICATION for all things poolwise...I can only say that there are plenty of quality player's and railbug's still around, who witnessed those (sometimes all night) sessions I had with Bill.

You seem to have some problem with Beenie's quality of play, but you sure can't say he was not always a seasoned competitor, and played real solid, for his own cash.

Once again, there can be no way of proving ANYTHING, with regards as to who could beat who, on any given day. But Bill Staton was a great ambassador for the game, and maybe he was not as colorful as Fatty...but he was a true gentleman, and never felt the need to blow his own horn. (like some of us tend to do)

Ask my good friend Alfie Taylor, he and Beanie, and their wives, traveled the world together, and he held Eddie Taylor's hand, as he passed away. Many thought Alf and Eddie were related, but they were just life long friends. He also still maintains close ties to all of Beenie's family.
When he was living in Aspen, Alfie produced some of the highest quality pool video's ever made. all the greats came to him... Archer, Efren, and Eddie Taylor and others, and Beenie did the commentary.
They all thought the world of Alfie, as do I. (He is as different from Jack, as two brothers can be, sorry Alf, but its the truth) I think that qualifies him as knowing a little about our small world.
He has given up on pool, and is a very successful businessman, right here in Scottsdale.


PS..I never knew Strawberry, so I cannot comment on his game, or what kind of guy he was. All I know is what I hear. (like most of us.)

PPS...Sorry for the hi-jack Dudley...the Beard made me do it..:eek:
 
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