How do you spot owed balls when the table is cleared?

onepocketchump

Verified Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2005
Messages
255
This doesn't come up often for me but I have always played that the balls spot one by one - one comes up and shoot and another one comes up and shoot as long as it's my inning at the table when the table is cleared and I still owe balls.

This came up in the Gabe vs. Viffer match and they played it this way which I thought is how it is supposed to be. However many people said that it wasn't that way and that the owed balls should all spot at one time even though Gabe was still shooting.

What's the official rule? Is there one?
 

daphish1

New Member
Joined
May 24, 2009
Messages
8
Here's the official rules:

9.2 Any penalty balls owed by the shooter, or balls pocketed in a neutral pocket, are to be spotted at the end of the shooter’s inning. However, if a player runs off all the balls on the table without reaching a winning score, then all such balls are spotted immediately (all at once, not one ball at a time), and the shooter continues their inning. At no other time in One Pocket are balls spotted during any shooter’s ongoing inning.
 

mosconiac

Verified Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2005
Messages
237
BTW, if you're feeling ornery & playing a 1P newb...and you happen to beat him say 8 to -1 (you aint giving up any weight, right?)...tell him he has to carry over the owed ball to the next game. :D
 

ArkansasKingpin

New Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2010
Messages
15
onepocketchump said:
This came up in the Gabe vs. Viffer match and they played it this way which I thought is how it is supposed to be. However many people said that it wasn't that way and that the owed balls should all spot at one time even though Gabe was still shooting.
I was sitting right there when this happened... I guess it happened to them before because Dippy said "I learned the rule about spotting the balls and they're all suppose to go up @ once" Gabe told him "We're playing the same way we've always played"...
 

gulfportdoc

Verified Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2004
Messages
10,047
Peat was right. After all, he ought to know. Many of his opponents have been in that position.;)

Doc
 

DogsPlayingPool

New Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2011
Messages
7
Please clarify this for me in regard to the Gabe/Dippy match, because I see that situation as something a little different.

Rule 9.2 reads as follows:

9.2 Any penalty balls owed by the shooter, or balls pocketed in a neutral pocket, are to be spotted at the end of the shooter’s inning. However, if a player runs off all the balls on the table without reaching a winning score, then all such balls are spotted immediately (all at once, not one ball at a time), and the shooter continues their inning.
I wondered about this too when I saw it but the way I read the rule about spotting all balls at once this only applies to "owed" balls or balls made in "neutral" pockets. But in Gabe's case these were simply balls that were required to be put back on the table in order to be able to complete the game, not balls he "owed" or were holed in a neutral pocket.

Now I could see this rule applying if say Gabe owed 2 balls to start the inning, then went on a run and cleared the table. At that point the way I read the rules, the two balls he "owed" at the beginning of the inning would have to spot at the same time.

But I don't see where the rule addresses the situation where balls are needed to be spotted to complete the game but there are no "owed" or neutrally pocketed balls involved. Rule 9.3 wouldn't cover this either because the player's inning hasn't ended yet.
 
Last edited:

SJDinPHX

Suspended
Joined
Dec 7, 2007
Messages
9,226
DogsPlayingPool said:
Please clarify this for me in regard to the Gabe/Dippy match, because I see that situation as something a little different.

Rule 9.2 reads as follows:

I wondered about this too when I saw it but the way I read the rule about spotting all balls at once this only applies to "owed" balls or balls made in "neutral" pockets. But in Gabe's case these were simply balls that were required to be put back on the table in order to be able to complete the game, not balls he "owed" or were holed in a neutral pocket.

Now I could see this rule applying if say Gabe owed 2 balls to start the inning, then went on a run and cleared the table. At that point the way I read the rules, the two balls he "owed" at the beginning of the inning would have to spot at the same time.

But I don't see where the rule addresses the situation where balls are needed to be spotted to complete the game but there are no "owed" or neutrally pocketed balls involved. Rule 9.3 wouldn't cover this either because the player's inning hasn't ended yet.
I guarantee you, balls owed, or made in a neutral pocket, would be spotted when the table is cleared, in ANY well run tournament...Gabe just got away with something there. He does continue his inning, whether 1 or 10 balls spot up. It ain't gonna come into play very often, in an 8-8 head up game, but it can...I am surprised Dippy let him get away with it...:rolleyes:

PS..Maybe Dippy had him so locked up, maybe he just let him have his way...:cool:

Looks pretty clear to me...
9.2 Any penalty balls owed by the shooter, or balls pocketed in a neutral pocket, are to be spotted at the end of the shooter’s inning. However, if a player runs off all the balls on the table without reaching a winning score, then all such balls are spotted immediately (all at once, not one ball at a time), and the shooter continues their inning.
 
Last edited:

DogsPlayingPool

New Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2011
Messages
7
SJDinPHX said:
I guarantee you, balls owed, or made in a pocket, would be spotted when the table is cleared, in ANY well run tournament...Gabe just got away with something there. He does continue his inning, whether 1 or 10 balls spot up.
Ok, fair enough; I'm not trying to be argumentative here. I'm new to the game and really just want to understand it. But in the Gabe situation he did not owe any balls. Also, if the "traditional or customary" procedure in this situation is to spot them all at once that's fine too. All I'm saying is I'm just not sure where this is actually covered in the rules itself.
 

SJDinPHX

Suspended
Joined
Dec 7, 2007
Messages
9,226
DogsPlayingPool said:
Ok, fair enough; I'm not trying to be argumentative here. I'm new to the game and really just want to understand it. But in the Gabe situation he did not owe any balls. Also, if the "traditional or customary" procedure in this situation is to spot them all at once that's fine too. All I'm saying is I'm just not sure where this is actually covered in the rules itself.
DPP...Please read edit, and PS on post #7...Not trying to be argumentative either...But you'll be better off with a good understanding of the rules..:)... In gambling match-ups, the rules can, and often are "bent" a little...:rolleyes:
 
Last edited:

DogsPlayingPool

New Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2011
Messages
7
SJDinPHX said:
DPP...Please read edit, and PS on post #7...Not trying to be argumentative either...But you'll be better off with a good understanding of the rules..:)... In gambling match-ups, the rules can, and often are "bent" a little...:rolleyes:

I read it but still don't see it. You highlighted "balls in a neutral pocket" but we are not dealing with balls in a neutral pocket. The rule clearly is limited to say only balls owed or from neutral pockets are spotted all at once if the table is clear. But the Gabe situation had nothing to do with either owed balls or balls that went in a neutral pocket. He was spotting balls he legally made in his own pocket. The balls he spotted were not owed by him, nor were they balls he had made in other than his or Dippy's pocket. So the rules really don't say anything about how these balls should be spotted.

But hey, if that's the customary way it's handled, I get it and appreciate the information. I just don't agree that the situation is clearly covered by this rule.

If rule 9.2 was to include this situation it should have been written more general and not made reference only to "owed" or "neutrally pocketed" balls. It could have simply said if the table is cleared and balls are needed to complete the game the player spots the number of balls needed all at once.
 

lll

Verified Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2007
Messages
15,498
SJDinPHX said:
I guarantee you, balls owed, or made in a neutral pocket, would be spotted when the table is cleared, in ANY well run tournament...Gabe just got away with something there. He does continue his inning, whether 1 or 10 balls spot up. It ain't gonna come into play very often, in an 8-8 head up game, but it can...I am surprised Dippy let him get away with it...:rolleyes:

PS..Maybe Dippy had him so locked up, maybe he just let him have his way...:cool:

Looks pretty clear to me...
9.2 Any penalty balls owed by the shooter, or balls pocketed in a neutral pocket, are to be spotted at the end of the shooter’s inning. However, if a player runs off all the balls on the table without reaching a winning score, then all such balls are spotted immediately (all at once, not one ball at a time), and the shooter continues their inning.
im repeating the last sentence

However, if a player runs off all the balls on the table without reaching a winning score, then all such balls are spotted immediately (all at once, not one ball at a time), and the shooter continues their inning.


this states if the player doesnt reach a winning score (doesnt say OWES ANY BALLS)
ALL THE BALLS NECESSARY ARE SPOTTED ALL AT ONCE

that should be clear:)
 

DogsPlayingPool

New Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2011
Messages
7
lll said:
im repeating the last sentence

However, if a player runs off all the balls on the table without reaching a winning score, then all such balls are spotted immediately (all at once, not one ball at a time), and the shooter continues their inning.


this states if the player doesnt reach a winning score (doesnt say OWES ANY BALLS)
ALL THE BALLS NECESSARY ARE SPOTTED ALL AT ONCE

that should be clear:)

What it says is "all SUCH" balls should be spotted immediately. The "such' seems to be referring to owed and neutral pocket balls only. Now, if the "such" is meant to mean "all such balls as is necessary to complete the game" then it makes sense, but it certainly isn't clearly written that way. To me the "such" seems to refer to the previous sentence reference to penalty balls owed and neutral pocket balls.

Anyway, I understand the procedure now. Thanks for the info.
 
Last edited:

tonygreen

Well-Known-Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2011
Messages
391
this kind of situation should be clarified before playing (like playing 8-ball , there are 437 ways to play)
 

SJDinPHX

Suspended
Joined
Dec 7, 2007
Messages
9,226
tonygreen said:
this kind of situation should be clarified before playing (like playing 8-ball , there are 437 ways to play)
OK DPP...I'll give it one more shot...If Gabe reached a winning score...the game would be OVER...So he must still owe balls...wherever they were made...and as stated in the rules, I think you are overlooking the sentence "without reaching a winning score" The rules clearly state that,...You are saying "he didn't owe any balls".

"Such" balls must be spotted all at once......If he didn't owe any balls, after clearing the table..as I said, it would be a moot point... because, the game would be over !

PS..Tony, don't exagerate, there are only 425 different ways to play 8 ball..:D
 
Last edited:

DogsPlayingPool

New Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2011
Messages
7
SJDinPHX said:
I'll give it one more shot...If Gabe reached a winning score...the game would be OVER...So he must still owe balls...wherever they were made...and as stated in the rules, I think you are overlooking the sentence "without reaching a winning score" The rules clearly state that,

"Such" balls must be spotted all at once...If he didn't owe any balls, after clearing the table..as I said, it would be a moot point... because, the game would be over !
Oy. Gabe doesn't "owe" any balls according to the rule because the rule, when read in full, actually refers to PENALTY balls owed (and neutral pocket balls). Owed balls doesn't refer to the number of balls you still need to make. If the score is 0-0 and I take an intentional foul, do I now owe one ball or 9 balls? I owe 1 ball.
 

SJDinPHX

Suspended
Joined
Dec 7, 2007
Messages
9,226
DogsPlayingPool said:
Oy. Gabe doesn't "owe" any balls according to the rule because the rule, when read in full, actually refers to PENALTY balls owed (and neutral pocket balls). Owed balls doesn't refer to the number of balls you still need to make. If the score is 0-0 and I take an intentional foul, do I now owe one ball or 9 balls? I owe 1 ball.
You are straying off target..Of course you would only owe one ball per foul...Please keep in mind...Gabe was playing Dippy, like 18 to 4...The situation you are having trouble understanding, came up quite often...The rail was lined with pennie's (owed balls) every game...I'm sorry, I cannot explain it any clearer....I tried my best..:)
 
Last edited:

DogsPlayingPool

New Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2011
Messages
7
SJDinPHX said:
You are straying off target..Of course you would only owe one ball per foul...Please keep in mind...Gabe was playing Dippy, like 18 to 4...The situation you are having trouble understanding, came up quite often...The rail was lined with pennie's (owed balls) every game...I'm sorry, I cannot explain it any clearer....I tried my best..:)
I get what you're saying about owed balls in the context of this handicapped match. I just don't see how the rule covering "penalty balls owed" applies here because I don't think of handicap balls owed falling into that category. But I do appreciate you're patience in explaining it and since no one has offered a different opinion I certainly accept that is the way it is supposed to go down. I would just not want to have to rely on 9.2 to defend that position, especially if I was playing myself. ;)
 

lll

Verified Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2007
Messages
15,498
DogsPlayingPool said:
What it says is "all SUCH" balls should be spotted immediately. The "such' seems to be referring to owed and neutral pocket balls only. Now, if the "such" is meant to mean "all such balls as is necessary to complete the game" then it makes sense, but it certainly isn't clearly written that way. To me the "such" seems to refer to the previous sentence reference to penalty balls owed and neutral pocket balls.

Anyway, I understand the procedure now. Thanks for the info.
hopefully your matches will be close enough that this rule wont come into play because of the spot:D :)
 

DogsPlayingPool

New Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2011
Messages
7
lll said:
hopefully your matches will be close enough that this rule wont come into play because of the spot:D :)
If it does I can promise you I'd be the one arguing for "all balls spot at once" because it surely would be me on the 4 side of 18-4 sitting in the chair.:eek:
 

treeMan

Verified Member
Joined
Sep 2, 2004
Messages
242
maybe this will help.

Gabe owes those balls before the game starts. There is no other way to go to 18. There is no such thing as "additional balls that are needed to complete the game".

Think of 18-4 as 12-4 AND the player going to 12 starts out "owing" 6 balls. That is what it really is imo.

tree
 
Top