Hdhdt&wwyhd

LSJohn

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Kicking at the ten also might work but if you're thinking along those lines than why not just try to kick in the two?

Tom
Right-hander or left-hander would determine which shot is easier, right?
 

Tom Wirth

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Right-hander or left-hander would determine which shot is easier, right?
You tell me, John. The cue ball is just about centered between the side rails and for the most part you're shooting directly toward the head rail. So, what difference would it make?

Have you tried to reach that shot without a bridge?

Tom
 

GoldCrown

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Yes! Seeing the possibility is the first step in learning how to execute any shot.

Exercise your imaginations. That's the fun of this game. What other pool game offers such wild opportunities?

Tom
The levels that some people play are fascinating. What a beautiful game of skill. And very good WWYD.
 
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beatle

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you can reach that with out the bridge. but why would he take a foul if you do it and leave him where it is. he will simply roll into the ball up table into the ball up there and your spotted ball will block the shot on the two ball. no way is he going to trade scratches with you and give up his one ball to win advantage.

when you need all the balls the game is basically lost. so you have to make a shot to give yourself a better chance than trying to win making one at a time.
make that two ball one rail and you can bank your way out.
 

LSJohn

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You tell me, John. The cue ball is just about centered between the side rails and for the most part you're shooting directly toward the head rail. So, what difference would it make?



Tom
The 10 is easier to reach for a right-hander, the 2 for a lefty. Certainly no bridge needed for either of those, but still difficult to get the tip on it as you'd like.

I'm not near my table now, so no I haven't tried it, but I can for sure reach a CB not jacked up at that location. You may be right that the stretch combined with the necessary elevation would be too much.

I'll be back to my table tomorrow night and I'll give it a go. (Probably have to post a few :eek: :eek: :eek: ) :eek:
 

LSJohn

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he will simply roll into the ball up table into the ball up there and your spotted ball will block the shot on the two ball. no way is he going to trade scratches with you and give up his one ball to win advantage.
Ah. (as in "Aw Sh*t.")

Thanks.
 

Jeff sparks

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I'm a little late on this, but if I understand the query correctly, the first question is, how did player ( "A" ) knock the 10 ball that far up table from that jacked up position over the 9 ball and leave the CB where it is now?

A right hander could reach the entire left side of the CB from that jacked position, so he either did a jacked up 5 rail swinger outta the upper right hand corner, or he hit the CB with a low draw stroke and went to cloth just to the right of the 12 ball on the head rail and executed a desperate kick out of the 10 ball. Not exactly sure how that happened if that's what he did, but the CB could have drawn off the head rail enough to contact the side rail and then smack the 10 up table????? I might be reaching, but how else could he move the 10 that far and keep the CB where it is now?

I forgot the second part of the question:frus..... So I'm posting this and going back to look up the other question!!! Lol gettin old!!

Ok, what would I have done from the jacked up position over the 9 ball....???
Well, I need 4, all of em, another ain't gonna matter, I'm pushing the CB a little towards my long rail, hoping he decides to take a foul with me. If he does, and he leaves me enough tip area on the CB, I'm kicking at the 2 ball next, if he totally jacks me up over the 9, well I guess if I couldn't get a tip on the CB, I'd put myself on two fouls and hope like hell to have a better opportunity to make a good kick on the 2 ball.

Whew!! I'm tired now, back to bed!!
 
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gulfportdoc

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Doc. I realize it is hard to see but there is a hair of separation between the cue ball and the nine. Still, you could shoot through the nine and drive the cue ball to the foot rail. It's a foul, but you might get away with it. That is unless you sell out a bank on the two.

Kicking at the ten also might work but if you're thinking along those lines than why not just try to kick in the two? Tom
Yeah, I'd mentioned kicking in the 2 as well. However when I went to the table I could not reach the CB for up and down shots without the bridge-- which makes those shots much harder.

In terms of the method the shooter used to bat the 10 out of there, Jeff made a good point about shooting the CB low or low left at the head rail then down to the 10.

I don't know if you could get the CB 5-railer long enough. Maybe so.

~Doc
 

Tom Wirth

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Skin and Larry were first to recognize the five rail kick on the ten. I've no doubt others here saw the same shot but were late to post. Good going guys. This is exactly what he did. I can't help but wonder if that would have been your choice had you been faced with this situation. I'd like to think you would.

Now I ask you, how did this player get the cue ball long enough to manage that shot? And why not take an intentional foul to get this opponent off needing only one?

Player A had better be careful with his initial foul though, because if he pushes the cue ball slightly toward his side rail he very well might leave a straight in shot on the nine ball.

Lagging to the twelve ball located along the head rail leaves a long somewhat straight in shot. If player A makes that shot he has a good chance to win the game. Personally, I wouldn't want to give him an opportunity as tempting as that regardless of the low percentages.

There is a lot to consider here.

Tom
 

petie

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How did he get out of the trap. Now all 4 balls will be up table..
why not kick the 2 in. Might be able to bank out if he makes it. Can't be worse off. Or leave him up table with the 2 hidden and a long shot on the ten with sellout angle.
Exactly my question.
 

NH Steve

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Given that player A is in such a dire trap, but that the cue ball location as it sits would also be a dire trap for his opponent, the first thing player A should do is take one touch foul right in place. That pretty much forces the opponent to scratch back, meaning the score now goes to A needing 5 and his opponent needing 2 -- that is considerably better odds than A needing 4 and his opponent needing 1 in a trap like this.

Next up is to kick somewhere as best you can to get safe -- who cares whether you get a legal shot or not because needing 6 vs opponent needing 2 is still looking pretty good compared with the trap A was in.

I don't see trying to hit the 10-ball -- just try to get under the 2-ball near YOUR OWN pocket, because that is about the only way you can defend against the cross corner bank. If you succeed in getting a better cueing approach after your opponent scratches back, then I do like kicking at the 2-ball.

One more thing -- when taking that first foul, I would try to move the cue ball over a tiny bit -- in an effort to create an angle that would make a one rail kick possible without shooting over the crown of the 9-ball.
 

NH Steve

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How did he get out of the trap. Now all 4 balls will be up table..
why not kick the 2 in. Might be able to bank out if he makes it. Can't be worse off. Or leave him up table with the 2 hidden and a long shot on the ten with sellout angle.
I like your shot of rolling up on the 12 ball to leave your opponent straight in on the 10 -- but only after a back scratch or maybe two in that case, since rolling on the 12 should be pretty doable even on two scratches.
 

Tom Wirth

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Given that player A is in such a dire trap, but that the cue ball location as it sits would also be a dire trap for his opponent, the first thing player A should do is take one touch foul right in place. That pretty much forces the opponent to scratch back, meaning the score now goes to A needing 5 and his opponent needing 2 -- that is considerably better odds than A needing 4 and his opponent needing 1 in a trap like this.

Next up is to kick somewhere as best you can to get safe -- who cares whether you get a legal shot or not because needing 6 vs opponent needing 2 is still looking pretty good compared with the trap A was in.

I don't see trying to hit the 10-ball -- just try to get under the 2-ball near YOUR OWN pocket, because that is about the only way you can defend against the cross corner bank. If you succeed in getting a better cueing approach after your opponent scratches back, then I do like kicking at the 2-ball.

One more thing -- when taking that first foul, I would try to move the cue ball over a tiny bit -- in an effort to create an angle that would make a one rail kick possible without shooting over the crown of the 9-ball.


Steve, thank you for your analysis of this situation. I would however want to know how you plan the part where "you kick safe as best you can." Can you be more specific? Remember, if you and your opponent each take a foul, the five rail kick will now be eliminated as a possibility. The cue ball path off the third rail leads through the foot spot.

I like your shot of rolling up on the 12 ball to leave your opponent straight in on the 10 -- but only after a back scratch or maybe two in that case, since rolling on the 12 should be pretty doable even on two scratches.
So you are willing to leave him straight in on the ten and give up the bank on the two if he makes it? The two is not frozen to the side rail.
I doubt this guy is going to take a foul which provides you access to the middle of the cue ball in the direction of the head rail.
Tom
 

NH Steve

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[/B]

Steve, thank you for your analysis of this situation. I would however want to know how you plan the part where "you kick safe as best you can." Can you be more specific? Remember, if you and your opponent each take a foul, the five rail kick will now be eliminated as a possibility. The cue ball path off the third rail leads through the foot spot.



So you are willing to leave him straight in on the ten and give up the bank on the two if he makes it? The two is not frozen to the side rail.
I doubt this guy is going to take a foul which provides you access to the middle of the cue ball in the direction of the head rail.
Tom
Well, when it comes to the kick -- your guy kicked 5 rails under the 10-ball right? I was talking about kicking below the 2-ball in order to defend against the bank. I know my opponent will follow with knocking away the 2-ball but when I am in this kind of trouble my first thought is survival, lol. It looks to me like I could kick three rails at or under the 2-ball but on looking at it more, now that the balls are spotted and seeing that the 2-ball appears to be in the "big ball" position, then I am kicking directly at the 2-ball. It blocks a direct scratch into my pocket which is something that could happen if I miss-kicked 3-rails. If the 2-ball happens to fall I am definitely back in the game, and if it doesn't fall, as long as my speed is good enough to land in the ballpark, I am likely to survive.

I would definitely take one scratch first off, in the hopes to draw my opponent into taking one also.
 

NH Steve

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Another thing worth mentioning about this situation overall is the threat -- for both players -- when there are easily bankable balls on opposite rails downtable, which you have in the 10-ball and 2-ball. That is a bit of a unique situation in and of itself that can be a challenge to defend.
 

NH Steve

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PS I tried the kick on the 2-ball four times. Once I did hit it badly enough that I missed the 2 completely and left a cross corner on it. But the other three times I tried it I hit the 2 either on the way down or once on the way back, and all three of those times (including the first time I tried it, lol), I was satisfied with my result. Because the 2-ball is so close to the rail it is almost impossible to hit it without coming up with a legal shot (i.e. catching a rail with the 2-ball). One of the four tries I would have made the 2 if I had rolled a hair harder, but it was still a legal shot and I would have been very happy with my result. I had earlier said kicking under the 2-ball but in setting it up, there is no need to get under it -- on top is tougher for your opponent anyway. You see I have put the two balls on the spot assuming both my intentional and my opponent's intentional back.
 

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LSJohn

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rolling up on the 12 ball to leave your opponent straight in on the 10 -- but only after a back scratch or maybe two in that case, since rolling on the 12 should be pretty doable even on two scratches.
... and CB goes off 12 to where 9 blocks the 2. Very good.
 

petie

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PS I tried the kick on the 2-ball four times. Once I did hit it badly enough that I missed the 2 completely and left a cross corner on it. But the other three times I tried it I hit the 2 either on the way down or once on the way back, and all three of those times (including the first time I tried it, lol), I was satisfied with my result. Because the 2-ball is so close to the rail it is almost impossible to hit it without coming up with a legal shot (i.e. catching a rail with the 2-ball). One of the four tries I would have made the 2 if I had rolled a hair harder, but it was still a legal shot and I would have been very happy with my result. I had earlier said kicking under the 2-ball but in setting it up, there is no need to get under it -- on top is tougher for your opponent anyway. You see I have put the two balls on the spot assuming both my intentional and my opponent's intentional back.
Steve, are you a righty or a lefty? When I looked at this from the angle you showed, it looked a little problematical as a righty.
 

LSJohn

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PS I tried the kick on the 2-ball four times. Once I did hit it badly enough that I missed the 2 completely and left a cross corner on it. But the other three times I tried it I hit the 2 either on the way down or once on the way back, and all three of those times (including the first time I tried it, lol), I was satisfied with my result. Because the 2-ball is so close to the rail it is almost impossible to hit it without coming up with a legal shot (i.e. catching a rail with the 2-ball). One of the four tries I would have made the 2 if I had rolled a hair harder, but it was still a legal shot and I would have been very happy with my result. I had earlier said kicking under the 2-ball but in setting it up, there is no need to get under it -- on top is tougher for your opponent anyway. You see I have put the two balls on the spot assuming both my intentional and my opponent's intentional back.
Pretty good results, but I'll bet you're a lot more proficient with the bridge than I.
 

androd

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Steve, are you a righty or a lefty? When I looked at this from the angle you showed, it looked a little problematical as a righty.
No problem if you're 7 ft.
I wouldn't make much of a yard man, I'm no good with the rake. :)
 
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