Ghost vs. Pat 26 wwyd

Jeff sparks

Verified Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2015
Messages
3,113

Ok then, nobody guessed it....what Pat attempted, was to draw back off of the 7ball with exact precision, in order to leave me on the foot rail and froze against the side of the 14ball...

And I give major props to Pat here - he hit it great/almost perfect - just about executed it like Efren (y) I'm sure I wouldn't have executed it as well as Pat did...

So Pat did kill whitey dead on the rail, and he did get me snookered on the 1ball, but he just missed by 1/8" getting that key second snookering of me on the 6ball = just barely, I could see the middle of the 6ball to escape...here's how his shot turned out >>>

P.S. I've put up several wwyd's where Pat didn't hit his shot too well, so youse guys give him a tap on your pool cue, or on your mouse :) for his excellent cueball/execution with this shot.
Here’s what I think... Pat could have shot it 100 more times and not hit it any better... the way those 3 balls are configured I don’t see how he got it to where it ended up? Looks impossible!
Good eye Bill. I was looking at that shot and I feel that If the two cushion intentional wasn't available I would definitely choose your option.

Dr. Bill
Dr. Bill,
Since you like this shot, could you perhaps elaborate on the interactions of the 7 and 10 balls and describe where you believe the 7 ball might stop after hitting it with enough force follow speed to get the cb up table...
 

Ratamon

Well-Known-Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2018
Messages
319
Ok then, nobody guessed it....what Pat attempted, was to draw back off of the 7ball with exact precision, in order to leave me on the foot rail and froze against the side of the 14ball...

And I give major props to Pat here - he hit it great/almost perfect - just about executed it like Efren (y) I'm sure I wouldn't have executed it as well as Pat did...

So Pat did kill whitey dead on the rail, and he did get me snookered on the 1ball, but he just missed by 1/8" getting that key second snookering of me on the 6ball = just barely, I could see the middle of the 6ball to escape...here's how his shot turned out >>>

P.S. I've put up several wwyd's where Pat didn't hit his shot too well, so youse guys give him a tap on your pool cue, or on your mouse :) for his excellent cueball/execution with this shot.
well well well. Two balls are gone from his side with a shot on the 6. I wouldn’t call it a great success. For what it’s worth, I like a simple roll up to either the 1 or the 14 quite a lot more than what Pat did (probably favouring the 14 a bit more as the roll-up to the 1 is a foul and costs me a ball).

Perhaps, there is a reason why no one else chose to shoot Pat’s shot.

Great execution, I’ll give him that!

Edit. I see that I basically repeated what beatle had said. Great minds and all that 😀
 
Last edited:

cincy_kid

Verified Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2015
Messages
5,179
Very nice execution Pat!

For vapros shot, I too like these kinds of shots and they have to be in your arsenal. The main prob I see on this layout is what Jeff brought up. I think the CB is awful close to the 7. Not impossible but touchy for sure.
 

jtompilot

Verified Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2009
Messages
4,453
I was hoping for a comment or two on my shot in post #5, but I didn't get a single one. How about it, Jeff? Actually, I could shoot it straight into the face of the 7 ball, with no cut at all - nearly as good.
I didn’t post it but I like your shot better than the intentional.
 

wincardona

Verified Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
7,536
Here’s what I think... Pat could have shot it 100 more times and not hit it any better... the way those 3 balls are configured I don’t see how he got it to where it ended up? Looks impossible!


Dr. Bill,
Since you like this shot, could you perhaps elaborate on the interactions of the 7 and 10 balls and describe where you believe the 7 ball might stop after hitting it with enough force follow speed to get the cb up table...
Jeff your position is very strong here and it needs to be protected if possible, I'm an advocate of the two cushion intentional, however, if that option wasn't available I would choose Vapro's option off the 7ball. I look at this option as one that can reposition the cue ball up-table near the 12ball with a fairly good success rate. Using the 7ball into the 10ball (depending on the accuracy of the hit) the safeness of the shot will be somewhat compromised but not so much that I would be discouraged with the outcome. The thin hit on the 10ball with the 7ball will help control the 10ball to a safe area and the 7ball most likely will travel cross table to possibly contact a ball on the opposite side or even travel further north (depending on the thinness of the hit) Yes I understand that there's a chance that I may sell out a return shot which is factored into my decision but the way the shot is presented I'm feeling that I will be successful at least 80% of the time and if a shot should leak out it may not be a good option for my opponent.

There's a cost for everything we do... if the ends justify the means.... (in our mind's eye) lets "rock and roll"

By the way, I'm in total agreement with you on your rebuttal with the projected success rate on Pat's shot.

Dr. Bill
 
Last edited:

Jeff sparks

Verified Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2015
Messages
3,113
Jeff your position is very strong here and it needs to be protected if possible, I'm an advocate of the two cushion intentional, however, if that option wasn't available I would choose Vapro's option off the 7ball. I look at this option as one that can reposition the cue ball up-table near the 12ball with a fairly good success rate. Using the 7ball into the 10ball (depending on the accuracy of the hit) the safeness of the shot will be somewhat compromised but not so much that I would be discouraged with the outcome. The thin hit on the 10ball with the 7ball will help control the 10ball to a safe area and the 7ball most likely will travel cross table to possibly contact a ball on the opposite side or even travel further north (depending on the thinness of the hit) Yes I understand that there's a chance that I may sell out a return shot which is factored into my decision but the way the shot is presented I'm feeling that I will be successful at least 80% of the time and if a shot should leak out it may not be a good option for my opponent.

There's a cost for everything we do... if the ends justify the means.... (in our mind's eye) lets "rock and roll"

By the way, I'm in total agreement with you on your rebuttal with the projected success rate on Pat's shot.

Dr. Bill
Ok,
Just for the sake of argument, let’s look at exactly how this shot lays... at least as close as we can from the pictures...
Examine the shot from the best view, which is pic two, the view from behind the cb looking at the angle offered for shooting the 7 into the edge of the 10, and following the cb, in whatever fashion we choose... the angle appears to me, off...by that I mean it lays good to accomplish the thinning of the 10 with the 7, however in order to get the cb up table, it appears to me that the 7 would have to be cut slightly on the left, thereby causing the 7 to miss contacting the 10 ball entirely, and henceforth eliminating this shot as an option... In order for the 7 to contact the 10, it would have to be shot pretty much how it lays, head on with no cutting action on the 7 ball...Shooting it this way, with what I would describe as a high follow stroke, I thought it was very close to a side pocket scratch initially, but I believe it’s possible to get the cb a tad north of the side pocket shooting it in this manner... However I see now way to accomplish the task you, Vapros, Tobe, and others advocate... This assessment, along with the speed which must be applied, is my reasoning as to why I would pass this option and look elsewhere if the two rail kick was not available.. as I said in an earlier post, I see the merit of this type of shot, and realize that if it laid slightly different, it would also be a favorable option...

Somebody has to disagree with you once in awhile! Since Hackers gone, I guess I’m elected...
Peace my brother...👍 : )
 

Tobermory

Verified Member
Joined
Mar 12, 2017
Messages
1,490
Just for the record: my comment was not so much to endorse the force follow shot in this situation as it was to endorse the idea of force follow shots as a useful survival tool. In this WWYD, Jeff's analysis seems correct...it may not be possible to move the 10 and force follow the cue ball to a safe spot. That's why I still favor just laying on the 14, even over the revealed solution which requires moving a ball on my side. I will accept the likelihood of an up table game in exchange for the safety of my shot, and will hope that my opponent's rebuttal gives me more to work with later.

Ok,
Just for the sake of argument, let’s look at exactly how this shot lays... at least as close as we can from the pictures...
Examine the shot from the best view, which is pic two, the view from behind the cb looking at the angle offered for shooting the 7 into the edge of the 10, and following the cb, in whatever fashion we choose... the angle appears to me, off...by that I mean it lays good to accomplish the thinning of the 10 with the 7, however in order to get the cb up table, it appears to me that the 7 would have to be cut slightly on the left, thereby causing the 7 to miss contacting the 10 ball entirely, and henceforth eliminating this shot as an option... In order for the 7 to contact the 10, it would have to be shot pretty much how it lays, head on with no cutting action on the 7 ball...Shooting it this way, with what I would describe as a high follow stroke, I thought it was very close to a side pocket scratch initially, but I believe it’s possible to get the cb a tad north of the side pocket shooting it in this manner... However I see now way to accomplish the task you, Vapros, Tobe, and others advocate... This assessment, along with the speed which must be applied, is my reasoning as to why I would pass this option and look elsewhere if the two rail kick was not available.. as I said in an earlier post, I see the merit of this type of shot, and realize that if it laid slightly different, it would also be a favorable option...

Somebody has to disagree with you once in awhile! Since Hackers gone, I guess I’m elected...
Peace my brother...👍 : )
 

beatle

Verified Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2009
Messages
2,679
if you choose to lay on the 14 instead of kicking it in or closer as you feel that isnt a good option for you. then bumping it a little as you lay up gives you a couple benefits. it takes it off the rail and puts it a tad closer. both of which will give a very easy kick in later on if you get a chance. and bumping it may block the other shots for him.

not saying any of my shots are better than the 2 rail kick. but i like to give out shots that increase your advantage rather than just get out of the trap. many of my shots are not in most players repertoire and may be blue ski for anyone but something to look for instead of quickly sending balls where you get out of that inning.

if you notice the great players only a few times in any game hit shots that just get them to another inning. they almost always are shooting something that can change the game for them now or in the near future. like in football you only punt when nothing else can get you a better chance.
 

wincardona

Verified Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
7,536
👍
Ok,
Just for the sake of argument, let’s look at exactly how this shot lays... at least as close as we can from the pictures...
Examine the shot from the best view, which is pic two, the view from behind the cb looking at the angle offered for shooting the 7 into the edge of the 10, and following the cb, in whatever fashion we choose... the angle appears to me, off...by that I mean it lays good to accomplish the thinning of the 10 with the 7, however in order to get the cb up table, it appears to me that the 7 would have to be cut slightly on the left, thereby causing the 7 to miss contacting the 10 ball entirely, and henceforth eliminating this shot as an option... In order for the 7 to contact the 10, it would have to be shot pretty much how it lays, head on with no cutting action on the 7 ball...Shooting it this way, with what I would describe as a high follow stroke, I thought it was very close to a side pocket scratch initially, but I believe it’s possible to get the cb a tad north of the side pocket shooting it in this manner... However I see now way to accomplish the task you, Vapros, Tobe, and others advocate... This assessment, along with the speed which must be applied, is my reasoning as to why I would pass this option and look elsewhere if the two rail kick was not available.. as I said in an earlier post, I see the merit of this type of shot, and realize that if it laid slightly different, it would also be a favorable option...

Somebody has to disagree with you once in awhile! Since Hackers gone, I guess I’m elected...
Peace my brother...👍 : )
beatle, if the angle you see thinning the 10ball sends the cue ball toward the side pocket than I wouldn't shoot it either. However, that's not the angle I see. I can hit the 7ball a fraction off-center cutting it to the right which will thin the 10ball and send the cue ball straight toward the 12ball. If in fact, that is the angle than this option becomes quite productive. Thanks for the debate, it not only clarifies clouded situations it also helps educate players that are not understanding why there are disagreements from more educated players. On the computer screen, we often see things differently, explaining how a fraction of an angle can change a viable option to not an option clears a lot of clouds.

Dr. Bill
 

sorackem

Well-Known-Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2019
Messages
653
I don't like the force-follow 7 clip the 10.
If the 7 hits the 10 too full it could come off the side rail too well positioned for opponent.
If the 7 hits the 10 less full it may be somewhat beneficial in moving it toward my side a bit better - but;
The CB goes into the long-rail above the side pocket at a rather steep (45d) angle. If left jut past there it leaves a good return bank on the 12 for opponent
If CB is followed further up to the head-rail it leaves a question as to how the 10 will rest and a 12 that would be easy to safety off.
GhostPat XXVI 7_10.png
These lines don't mean anything really, but they do help me get a feeling I don't care for the shot.
I'll stick with kicking the 14 to the back of the pocket.
 

Billy Jackets

Verified Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2011
Messages
1,652
Oh by the way , I have found that the Croanal helmet I am wearing, not only stops viruseses, it blocks most of the stuff my old lady throws at me when I ain't paying attention to her, like she thinks I should. I might start selling them if I get enough orders. Only 3 payments of 29.99
 

One Pocket Ghost

Verified Member
Joined
May 25, 2004
Messages
9,534
Oh by the way , I have found that the Croanal helmet I am wearing, not only stops viruseses, it blocks most of the stuff my old lady throws at me when I ain't paying attention to her, like she thinks I should. I might start selling them if I get enough orders. Only 3 payments of 29.99
25283953.jpg
 

catkins

Verified Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2016
Messages
1,165
my thinking on this shot is if you leave the cue ball low your kinda giving up for an up table game. even if you don hood your low ball and leave him up table there is not fram sot available so he will have to play a soft shot to remove one ball and play you safe. where as low, he will move balls out of your hole and leave you in a place where you looking to either move balls away from your hole or take an intentional. This is definitively why I don't want to leave him down table
 

vapros

Verified Member
Joined
May 24, 2004
Messages
3,738
Whitey, you are my hero. You hit it perfectly, just as I saw it and described it. Thanks -
 

Jeff sparks

Verified Member
Joined
Apr 2, 2015
Messages
3,113
👍

beatle, if the angle you see thinning the 10ball sends the cue ball toward the side pocket than I wouldn't shoot it either. However, that's not the angle I see. I can hit the 7ball a fraction off-center cutting it to the right which will thin the 10ball and send the cue ball straight toward the 12ball. If in fact, that is the angle than this option becomes quite productive. Thanks for the debate, it not only clarifies clouded situations it also helps educate players that are not understanding why there are disagreements from more educated players. On the computer screen, we often see things differently, explaining how a fraction of an angle can change a viable option to not an option clears a lot of clouds.

Dr. Bill
With the exception of you referring to me as beatle, there was never a more true statement... : )

If you set it up how you see it and it works, then it’s a viable option... if I set it up as I see it , it’s not going to work, period... no matter who shoots it... guess no matter who performs the shot, it depends on who sets it up as to its success or failure....
 
Top