Ghost vs. John 46 wwyd?

Dennis "Whitey" Young

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Good to see you back One Rock! I was working on banking the 9 into the 3 this morning and came in and seen you had posted this shot. I went around the 3 twice, made the 3, hit the 3 on the wrong side a couple of times. But IMO it is a very valid shot, I just need to hit it better, and easy to leave cb on end rail.
I did Nick B's shot and it was great working on this shot. I guess this shot is 101 of OP.
Jimmy B's shot, I had the 11 set up straight off the head center diamond just above the 1st. diamond side rail. Pretty precarious shot set up there, but I can see if the 11 is a little further out from the head cushion approaching a diamond and a half, I then see this is a very valid shot, and I believe it is further off the cushion than I had it. Nice shot, but for me, I like stopping the cb behind the stack using pocket speed on the 11.
I played with masse' around the 7 into the 3 and/or into the cushion behind the 3, sending the 3 into other balls. I also played with some stack shots, but it is to hard to get the balls set up exactly, so no point really. Thanks for the thread Ghost! Whitey
 
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Tom Wirth

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Yes, banking the eleven into the three and stopping the rock on the head rail can be very effective. It's a bit more risky but the benefits can be strong if hit well.

These are the only two options I see as viable but I'm willing to learn something here. Count me skeptical.

The two rail bank on the eleven and bringing to cue ball down table is not an option for me. Not that it can't work out well. It's just that the shot carries risk that is unnecessary given the position of the balls and the game score.

Sliding off the edge of the eight doesn't cut it for me either. Unless you can find a way to cover the cue ball into some sort of catcher's mitt I don't see that as much of an advantage. Prove me wrong.

Playing anything having to do with the stack is just asking for trouble. The position of the balls within the stack all work in the shooter's favor. Why disturb that set up now unless there is something the photos aren't showing me.

Tom
 

One Pocket Ghost

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For the many of you who chose a shot (banking the 11 straight back, etc.) whereby you are leaving your cueball down at the head rail...I think you slept the fact that you will be leaving your opponent the 15-10 combination-carom off of the 5 - which will likely include the desired angle for the cueball to come off of the long rail and land behind the 8ball...and hit softly enough, the 5 should not sell out.

- Ghost
 

wincardona

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Looking to play an offensive shot from here involving the 11ball is too risky and low% IMO. Playing off the 8ball hitting it thickly and spinning g to the side rail slightly past the 1st diamond will put you in an advantageous position. The 8ball should end up near the 7ball in a good position for the shooter. Most importantly if the cue ball is positioned near or on the rail slightly up from the diamond your opponent will be at a disadvantage.

This option is easily executed with zero risk and will put your opponent at a disadvantage.

Dr. Bill
 

wincardona

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Looking to play an offensive shot from here involving the 11ball is too risky and low% IMO. Playing off the 8ball hitting it thickly and spinning to the side rail slightly past the 1st diamond will put you in an advantageous position. The 8ball should end up near the 7ball in a good position for the shooter. Most importantly if the cue ball is positioned near or on the rail slightly up from the diamond your opponent will be at a disadvantage.

This option is easily executed with zero risk and will put your opponent at a disadvantage.

Dr. Bill
 

Dennis "Whitey" Young

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For the many of you who chose a shot (banking the 11 straight back, etc.) whereby you are leaving your cueball down at the head rail...I think you slept the fact that you will be leaving your opponent the 15-10 combination-carom off of the 5 - which will likely include the desired angle for the cueball to come off of the long rail and land behind the 8ball...and hit softly enough, the 5 should not sell out.

- Ghost
Exactly, I just noticed this when banking the 9 into the 3 and leaving the cb by head rail. I cleared out the 9 and 3 and they went part way to my side, but when going down table and viewing the opponent's next shot there is a devastating return shot, as Ghost stated. Whitey
 

Kybanks

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For the many of you who chose a shot (banking the 11 straight back, etc.) whereby you are leaving your cueball down at the head rail...I think you slept the fact that you will be leaving your opponent the 15-10 combination-carom off of the 5 - which will likely include the desired angle for the cueball to come off of the long rail and land behind the 8ball...and hit softly enough, the 5 should not sell out.

- Ghost
If I land my cb a diamond from the corner pocket on my side of the table, the carom would be a sell out unless you make it, which could happen!
 

gulfportdoc

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Looking to play an offensive shot from here involving the 11ball is too risky and low% IMO. Playing off the 8ball hitting it thickly and spinning to the side rail slightly past the 1st diamond will put you in an advantageous position. The 8ball should end up near the 7ball in a good position for the shooter. Most importantly if the cue ball is positioned near or on the rail slightly up from the diamond your opponent will be at a disadvantage.

This option is easily executed with zero risk and will put your opponent at a disadvantage. Dr. Bill
That's essentially the same shot as I suggested in post #23. But I'd be looking to hit the 8 thinner to place it as a blocker for a return bank on the 5 or 6.


Still, I'm leaning towards Tom's kick of the 3 ball off the foot rail.


~Doc
 

Jimmy B

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Bingo! - Yeah Jimmy, that's what John shot...

...but he hit the 11ball too full and it banked short/into the 7ball - and the full hit caused the cueball to stop 2 diamonds slow of getting to the foot rail...here's how it ended up >>>


Uh oh.. Tom Tom warned me about that.. Damn.. I can't do anything right.. Oh well.. Next time..
 

wincardona

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That's essentially the same shot as I suggested in post #23. But I'd be looking to hit the 8 thinner to place it as a blocker for a return bank on the 5 or 6.


Still, I'm leaning towards Tom's kick of the 3 ball off the foot rail.


~Doc
Doc, the difference with our options is playing a good cue ball. With your option of trying to fall under the 3ball is too difficult and you can easily leave a return bank on the 8ball that would clearly put you in trouble. If you look at the Ghost's 3rd. Opening picture it gives you a very clear picture of the angle the shooter is looking at to play both our options and it's laying perfectly to hit a half a ball and spin softly to the side rail slightly above the 1st. diamond.

I have noticed on many of the wwyd's we try to figure out offensive shots when just playing a sound simple shot will suffice. I bring this up because it's decisions of this nature that ends up costing us the game as opposed to making your opponent earn the win. Too many "Hero" shots are being suggested particularly at times where a solid effective easy to execute option would be the much better choice.

Dr. Bill
 
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Tom Wirth

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I have noticed on many of the wwyd's we try to figure out offensive shots when just playing a sound simple shot will suffice. I bring this up because it's decisions of this nature that ends up costing us the game as opposed to making your opponent earn the win. Too many "Hero" shots are being suggested particularly at times where a solid effective easy to execute option would be the much better choice.

Dr. Bill[/QUOTE]
[/B]

This, I couldn't agree with more. Hence the title of the book; Controlled Aggression with the emphasis on the word "controlled".
Good post here, Take heed people.

Though your shot is simple to execute I do see it as having the risk of the cue ball traveling beyond the destination you envision and selling out an easy bank on either the six or five balls. For this reason I like my choice of kicking the ticky on the three or the bank on the eleven into the three better.

Tom
 
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gulfportdoc

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Doc, the difference with our options is playing a good cue ball. With your option of trying to fall under the 3ball is too difficult and you can easily leave a return bank on the 8ball that would clearly put you in trouble. If you look at the Ghost's 3rd. Opening picture it gives you a very clear picture of the angle the shooter is looking at to play both our options and it's laying perfectly to hit a half a ball and spin softly to the side rail slightly above the 3rd diamond.

I have noticed on many of the wwyd's we try to figure out offensive shots when just playing a sound simple shot will suffice. I bring this up because it's decisions of this nature that ends up costing us the game as opposed to making your opponent earn the win. Too many "Hero" shots are being suggested particularly at times where a solid effective easy to execute option would be the much better choice. Dr. Bill
Bill, with the shot I suggested the CB would either be behind, or more likely, next to the 3 ball. Shallow banking the 8 would bring it up out of range for an 8 ball cross-corner, and also block any bank on the 5 or 6. The shot you described (a fuller bank of the 8) would expose those balls for banking.

But as to the second part of your post, I couldn't agree more. Everyone wants to be Tony Chohan, only without Tony's skill....:D In this case John hit the shot well, but it didn't turn out as he had envisioned. He's no better off in the new position than he would have been with a simple safety.

~Doc
 

wincardona

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Bill, with the shot I suggested the CB would either be behind, or more likely, next to the 3 ball. Shallow banking the 8 would bring it up out of range for an 8 ball cross-corner, and also block any bank on the 5 or 6. The shot you described (a fuller bank of the 8) would expose those balls for banking.

But as to the second part of your post, I couldn't agree more. Everyone wants to be Tony Chohan, only without Tony's skill....:D In this case John hit the shot well, but it didn't turn out as he had envisioned. He's no better off in the new position than he would have been with a simple safety.

~Doc
Firstly I would like to thank both you and Tom Doc
for your reply, however, playing a good cue ball from the position referenced when choosing my option is elementary and much more reliable IMO then any option that has been discussed in this thread. I have personally shot this particular shot enough to feel extremely comfortable with controlling the cue ball to the area I described.

All I ask is go to the table and shoot this shot it's a slam dunk.

Incidentally, my option isn't meant to trap my opponent, but it will put him in a position where he doesn't want to be 100% of the time.

Dr. Bill
 

baby huey

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One shot I haven't seen discussed (excuse me if it has already) is to strike the eight ball with running english and bring it up about a foot or so and lay the cueball on the opponents side about the first diamond. The cross corner banks are now back cuts with the nine ball impeding them from being pocketed. What's left is nothing offensive for your opponent. Play the game and don't be a hero when you don't have to be.
 

wincardona

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One shot I haven't seen discussed (excuse me if it has already) is to strike the eight ball with running english and bring it up about a foot or so and lay the cueball on the opponents side about the first diamond. The cross corner banks are now back cuts with the nine ball impeding them from being pocketed. What's left is nothing offensive for your opponent. Play the game and don't be a hero when you don't have to be.
Hallelujah, thank you thank you thank you.

Dr. Bill
 

wincardona

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One shot I haven't seen discussed (excuse me if it has already) is to strike the eight ball with running english and bring it up about a foot or so and lay the cueball on the opponents side about the first diamond. The cross corner banks are now back cuts with the nine ball impeding them from being pocketed. What's left is nothing offensive for your opponent. Play the game and don't be a hero when you don't have to be.
Jerry, I have been advocating this shot starting on post 45 and then again on other postings. To me this is the best option in this situation and you mimmicked exactly my thoughts.

Dr. Bill
 

Tom Wirth

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Firstly I would like to thank both you and Tom Doc
for your reply, however, playing a good cue ball from the position referenced when choosing my option is elementary and much more reliable IMO then any option that has been discussed in this thread. I have personally shot this particular shot enough to feel extremely comfortable with controlling the cue ball to the area I described.

All I ask is go to the table and shoot this shot it's a slam dunk.

Incidentally, my option isn't meant to trap my opponent, but it will put him in a position where he doesn't want to be 100% of the time.

Dr. Bill
Doc. Bill, You know I have the greatest respect for your strategic One Pocket thinking and with your cueing skills. I have no doubt of your ability to execute the shot as your intend. I also feel if you do get the cue ball to that intended location the shot will accomplish what you were looking for. I on the other hand feel just as comfortable with the two rail ticky on the three. Given the position of both the three and cue balls this shot is easy to measure, (A simple mirror system will get'er done) though I admit it is a bit more complicated than spinning off the eight.

As far as setting a trap. I doubt that option is available here regardless of what shot is chosen.

All the best to you,

Tom
 
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