Ghost vs. Clyde 42 wwyd

Skin

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At the risk of beating a dead horse I will say again, hoping that some of it will sink in to those who are willing to take the one or two balls this situation may offer up by first shooting in the fifteen ball instead of using it to continue the trap this ball provides.

Here is a ball that can be the key to winning this game. Think of it like a master key if you will which can only be used once. Apply it to the proper lock and the game can be yours. Apply it to the wrong lock and find yourself in a battle which can last into late innings.

How many times might you be willing to take an intentional foul to either trap your opponent or survive to fight for another inning when he has you in a trap? The value of one or two balls at this stage of the game is irrelevant to the value of superior position. Well here is a ball that lays within your golden triangle. This triangle is the area where you wish to lay one or two balls while also hiding the rock. Why would any of you wish to surrender this valuable asset for one or possibly two balls, then be forced to play a safety that has zero trapping possibilities?

If you begin to think of that fifteen ball, and even the thirteen as your soldiers in a big battle, you will begin to understand how valuable those two balls are to your success in the battle. You have two soldiers in ideal locations which can cause your enemy great harm. Do you wish to sacrifice them for the token benefit of scoring them now when they have the potential to win this battle if you just wait an inning or two while the rest of your army can get into position?

Tom

In hindsight, I will add one more thing. Your opponent has a golden triangle too. It looks just like yours, and it can be just as effective when he has a ball within its zone. In this case, moving the one ball from your opponent's triangle into yours while still covering the cue ball is worth it's weigh in gold.
Tom, that is a brilliant post. I'm not about to try to argue with it, of course. But here is my problem. I have been participating in the WWYDs for years now and have not gotten a single breath of air during that time. WHEN does the old 9 baller in me get to pull the trigger on anything? Sometimes even an old frog just has to jump. :D
 
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Tom Wirth

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Tom, that is a brilliant post. I'm not about to try to argue with it, of course. But here is my problem. I have been participating in the WWYDs for years now and have not gotten a single breath of air during that time. WHEN does the old 9 baller in me get to pull the trigger on anything? Sometimes even an old frog just has to jump. :D
Skin, I don't blame you for wanting to fire at your hole when the opportunity arises. I still play a bit of nine ball from time to time, and I want to run out whenever I have an open shot regardless of the layout of the remaining balls. I make a lot of mistakes that way.

I think back on how many times I've laid down a good safety only to have my opponent play a great kick and turn the tables, leaving me in the s**ter. So in trying to avoid this from happening, I try to pull off the magical shot that opens the door for a complete run through the rack. I pay a lot of penalties for that thinking.

I'll tell you a short story about a One Pocket player I used to watch back over four decades ago. This was a time when I knew next to nothing about how to play this game. This guy would lay down a trap and manage to get an easy open shot to his pocket but because he couldn't score but one or two balls due to the position of the remaining layout, he would pass on the shot and clear another ball from his opponent's scoring quadrant, sticking the cue ball tightly against the stack. That ball and maybe one or two others would end up in an area that offered a greater threat to run higher numbers when he got his next open shot. He still would not shoot this open shot until he had a layout which gave him a situation where he could run out the game.

This was a valuable lesson to me. It taught me the value of thinking about the game in a totally different way. I don't believe that taking this concept to the same extent as this guy did, but the impact his strategy had on me was obviously one that improved my game like none other.

Sure, passing up the fifteen can backfire, but the percentages favor this shot by such a wide margin that in the long run it will pay terrific dividends.

Tom
 

sappo

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When i first looked at this shot i immediately thought of banking the 1 into the 5 and also kicking the 5 ball. But the shot i choose was the pocket the 1 ball and draw whitey up the side rail to the 3rd diamond. i know it puts me down 2-0 but i leave no shot and I'm quite sure ill be in much better shape next inning. keith
i would like to hear a few opinions on my selection shown above. and i would like to hear what El Ghosto finally did. keith
 

jtompilot

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Ok, here are my results.

1 ball banks just fine but no shape on 5 with QB on rail and bad shot on 15. I only played pocket speed on the 1.

Soft kick at 5. Came out ok but left 5/15 bank combo.

Kick at 1, made it once. Got it close and hooked behind 5 the rest of the time.

Cut the 15 in and went for break out. I suck at break outs.

Cut 15 in played shape on 1. Made the 1 bumped 5 to my side QB to middle of table. Made 13, 5, 6 called it good.
 

gulfportdoc

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...

Cut 15 in played shape on 1. Made the 1 bumped 5 to my side QB to middle of table. Made 13, 5, 6 called it good.
Very nice pattern. I didn't think of getting on the 1 after the 14. I would have gone for shape on the 6 next.

Kicking the 1 to make it, then bumping the 5 out to be safe, is a semi-trick shot. I made it only one out of four tries. If the shooter plays just to carom behind the 5, and not necessarily tries to make the 1, the shot has more merit. But your pattern is the best, and would be the choice of 80% of good players. Have a cookie...:)

~Doc
 

jtompilot

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I will admit that the kick on the 1 has a much larger margin of error.

After making the 15 you need good speed to get on the 1. Then you need to make a thin cut on the 1 for everything to work out well.
 

One Pocket Ghost

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The defense rests. ����

Mitch, you are smart...;)...


Ok then...here's a list of our official best and clearest thinkers re. the choices in this thread...:heh ----->

15 with inside coming back across for the 1 0r even better the 5.
Can go up table for a couple balls but, staying down addresses your biggest threats.
It may not be popular, but I am cutting the 15 and getting on the 1.
I don't mind playing that shot. and If I don't good on the 1 then I'm kicking the 5 to pin him between the 1 and 5.
Clip the 15 with inside, making sure I DON'T get above the 11 ball and play shape for the one. Speed control is Critical, as I must land on the long rail to gain some control of my table position.

For the students on here, take note: the all-important, excellent component to this choice is that unlike all of the other choices - it's impossible for you to sell out or trap yourself shooting this shot - and with you being in control right now, you absolutely can't let one of those two things happen....and secondly, it comes with the potential of running several balls...

So in the game, I hit the angle perfectly to come flat across the table for the position on the 1 or 5, but unfortunately, speed-wise I hit it a tad too hard :frus came straight across into the long rail, and then :mad: rebounded back out 3 inches...

But, there's yet another good component to this shot...not having gotten shape on the 1, for my second choice, now I can trap him behind the 1 & 5 (as Jim also thought of and stated in his post) - which is what I did...here's how my shot came out ----->
 

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Tom Wirth

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Ghost, Ghost, Ghost. Clear thinking? I think not. Just because they happened to choose the shot you took does not mean it was the correct shot. It only means they thought as you thought.

Now, may I ask you, What have you accomplished with your shot and how have you trapped your opponent? Granted, you have locked him on the two balls near his hole, but because the fifteen is no longer a threat to him, he can now make a simple kick to your side of the table passing by the eight ball. And you still have done nothing to remove the two balls near your opponent's pocket.

Now you can kick him back there again but this time he will have more options to trap you. You gained one ball, and probably cost your opponent one for having taken his intentional foul. In the scope of things I fail to see the strength in your decision.

As for the possibility of running several balls with your shot, you have a position window of no more than four square inches and need to play of a rail sending the cue ball four additional feet using inside english. What are the odds?

Nothing personal Ghost. It's all about the game.

Tom
 
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One Pocket Ghost

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Ghost, Ghost, Ghost. Clear thinking? I think not. Just because they happened to choose the shot you took does not mean it was the correct shot. It only means they thought as you thought.

Now, may I ask you, What have you accomplished with your shot and how have you trapped your opponent? Granted, you have locked him on the two balls near his hole, but because the fifteen is no longer a threat to him, he can now make a simple kick to your side of the table passing by the eight ball. And you still have done nothing to remove the two balls near your opponent's pocket.

Now you can kick him back there again but this time he will have more options to trap you. You gained one ball, and probably cost your opponent one for having taken his intentional foul. In the scope of things I fail to see the strength in your decision.

As for the possibility of running several balls with your shot, you have a position window of no more than four square inches and need to play of a rail sending the cue ball four additional feet using inside english. What are the odds?

Nothing personal Ghost. It's all about the game.

Tom
Tom....nothing personal either...but sorry...

You're speaking as a 'monday morning quarterback' in your post...so I'll answer back in kind, via pilot Jim ----->

Cut 15 in played shape on 1. Made the 1 bumped 5 to my side QB to middle of table. Made 13, 5, 6 called it good.
- Ghost
 

unoperro

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Ghost after you played the 15,it looks like the 1 comes off the 5,in such a way that,the 5 is gone,and the 1 is safe on your side.

Easy options to play safe after pocketing the 15,if I failed to get position on the 1 or 5,is why I like the shot so much.

I dont like leaving the 15 because it banks back so easy.
 

Tom Wirth

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Tom....nothing personal either...but sorry...

You're speaking as a 'monday morning quarterback' in your post...so I'll answer back in kind, via pilot Jim ----->



- Ghost
I've only stated my opinion. I'll let it stand on that.

I would feel the same way even if you accomplished the same result that Jim did. No Monday morning Q'back.

Tom
 

jtompilot

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I've only stated my opinion. I'll let it stand on that.

I would feel the same way even if you accomplished the same result that Jim did. No Monday morning Q'back.

Tom
Tom, your shot is really good and I would say on a table that's 4 1/8" that would be the preferred shot by a wide margin. But on 4 1/2" pockets I'm shooting for my hole. Why would I want to give my opponent a chance to pull some good shot out of the bag and he kicks safe behind the 15. If you come long like ghost did then the 1 is still there to kick to your side and hook behind 5.

Got to love 1P. More than one way to skin a ghost:eek:
 

Tom Wirth

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My reasons were clearly stated. No need to repeat them or add to them. Posts 22 and 39. Also Dr. Bill made a post that adds to my reasoning, post 25. Accept them or go your own way. I only try to convey my own thoughts and reason to the game.


Tom
 
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