Ghost vs. Arturo 4 wwyd

unoperro

Verified Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2012
Messages
1,624
You may me right but if you notice there is only about a six inch area where it can land to give up a shot on it. I think it would be worth the risk.
The bank could also be done going three rails with the cue ball for position on the twelve. That would put less roll on the four ball. Maybe even lag speed.
Draw slows the cueball. Hitting the rail flat with top does the same.


I am not bickering,just stating why I dont like that shot.
 

One Pocket Ghost

Verified Member
Joined
May 25, 2004
Messages
9,458
I looked long and hard at banking that 4ball cross-corner, but decided against it...the main reason that I didn't shoot it, a table-related reason that you guys aren't aware of (but now you will know for future wwyd's), is that these two Diamond tables that we play on, roll slightly uphill going across the foot rail, rather than rolling straight across, or rolling downhill at your pocket - that makes flat cross-corner banks along the foot rail harder to make on these tables, unless they're shot at a firm speed so that the roll can't affect them...

A related shot that I was also considering, (but didn't shoot) which no one has picked out...was to bank that 4ball higher cross-corner, back across into the 5ball, and maybe making it, or at least moving balls towards my pocket, while also bringing the cueball around 3 rails.

- The Ghost of Christmas past :eek:
 

treeMan

Verified Member
Joined
Sep 2, 2004
Messages
242
There's also the two railer on the four, trying to send it into the two with speed. This shot let's you control the cue ball better going three rails uptable, and you can get good action going towards your pocket off the two.

tree
 

Hardmix

Verified Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2015
Messages
913
Treemans shot would have been my choice, multiple balls to my side with cue ball control.

Hardmix
 

NH Steve

Administrator
Joined
Apr 25, 2004
Messages
9,070
I looked long and hard at banking that 4ball cross-corner, but decided against it...the main reason that I didn't shoot it, a table-related reason that you guys aren't aware of (but now you will know for future wwyd's), is that these two Diamond tables that we play on, roll slightly uphill going across the foot rail, rather than rolling straight across, or rolling downhill at your pocket - that makes flat cross-corner banks along the foot rail harder to make on these tables, unless they're shot at a firm speed so that the roll can't affect them...

A related shot that I was also considering, (but didn't shoot) which no one has picked out...was to bank that 4ball higher cross-corner, back across into the 5ball, and maybe making it, or at least moving balls towards my pocket, while also bringing the cueball around 3 rails.

- The Ghost of Christmas past :eek:
The table I play on most of the time unfortunately has that same affliction, and it probably never effects anything -- except!!! -- exactly those banks you are talking about.
 

baby huey

Verified Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2008
Messages
1,508
I don't like my position at all. The majority of balls are in my opponents hemisphere. I got to do something pretty quick or else my opponent will figure out a way to open balls up to his pocket. So, I would bank he thirteen ball into the side rail and hit the back side of the one ball and attempt to move balls towards my hole. The cue ball goes up table and I can hit the thirteen ball pretty hard and expect balls to open up for me. The combination by my opponents hole doesn't lay well for him and if you control the cue ball a change in momentum will occur.
 

NH Steve

Administrator
Joined
Apr 25, 2004
Messages
9,070
I don't like my position at all. The majority of balls are in my opponents hemisphere. I got to do something pretty quick or else my opponent will figure out a way to open balls up to his pocket. So, I would bank he thirteen ball into the side rail and hit the back side of the one ball and attempt to move balls towards my hole. The cue ball goes up table and I can hit the thirteen ball pretty hard and expect balls to open up for me. The combination by my opponents hole doesn't lay well for him and if you control the cue ball a change in momentum will occur.
That is a creative shot Jerry -- I like it!!
 

wincardona

Verified Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
7,462
There's also the two railer on the four, trying to send it into the two with speed. This shot let's you control the cue ball better going three rails uptable, and you can get good action going towards your pocket off the two.

tree
I like your shot, good eye. The angle for this shot is laying perfectly to do exactly what you say. Playing the cue ball two cushions up to the top right quadrant and opening balls to your side is getting a lot done.

Dr. Bill
 

One Pocket Ghost

Verified Member
Joined
May 25, 2004
Messages
9,458
Kicking the 2ball from behind, and into the cluster.
That's definitely what I saw first Jim, looks like you could possibly make the 2 ball off the 7. Anyway I like it because it's aggressive and it moves balls over to my side and is reasonably safe if the CB doesn't slide to far off the 10.
Absolutely Jeff - that's two wwyd's in a row where we precisely agree on the shot choice - and the analysis re. the reasons to choose it...the only component that you didn't identify here, is that we also have a chance to kick that 2ball into the 12-7 combination, and make the 7ball - which I almost did...here's how it turned out after my kick-carom ----->

PS, Jim lost his recognition for this shot when he backpedaled off of it, for the cross-corner shot...:heh

- The One Holey Ghost
 

Attachments

Last edited:

1pwannabe

Verified Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2015
Messages
842
Kicking the 2ball from behind, and into the cluster.

Absolutely Jeff - that's two wwyd's in a row where we precisely agree on the shot choice - and the analysis re. the reasons to choose it...the only component that you didn't identify here, is that we also have a chance to kick that 2ball into the 12-7 combination, and make the 7ball - which I almost did...here's how it turned out after my kick-carom ----->
This turned out great, much better than I could expect if I shot it. I would have to really know the rails on a table before I kick into balls with the table wide open.

Congrats on a well executed kick shot.
 

Frank Almanza

Verified Member
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
2,403
Kicking the 2ball from behind, and into the cluster.

Absolutely Jeff - that's two wwyd's in a row where we precisely agree on the shot choice - and the analysis re. the reasons to choose it...the only component that you didn't identify here, is that we also have a chance to kick that 2ball into the 12-7 combination, and make the 7ball - which I almost did...here's how it turned out after my kick-carom ----->

PS, Jim lost his recognition for this shot when he backpedaled off of it, for the cross-corner shot...:heh

- The One Holey Ghost
You guys play too good.
 

lll

Verified Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2007
Messages
15,487
Kicking the 2ball from behind, and into the cluster.

Absolutely Jeff - that's two wwyd's in a row where we precisely agree on the shot choice - and the analysis re. the reasons to choose it...the only component that you didn't identify here, is that we also have a chance to kick that 2ball into the 12-7 combination, and make the 7ball - which I almost did...here's how it turned out after my kick-carom ----->

PS, Jim lost his recognition for this shot when he backpedaled off of it, for the cross-corner shot...:heh

- The One Holey Ghost
View attachment 13835

View attachment 13836

I kick good,you kick great.how did you hold whitey?
the 2 and 10 dont look like they moved to me
the 9 ball is up table
i am really confused how you shot that
 

Tom Wirth

Verified Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2004
Messages
2,631
Larry, it looks from here like what happened was he kicked full into the face of the nine ball and it in turn hit the ten paper thin. The ten hit the seven full on so the ten stopped dead. The seven then moved in the direction of his pocket, and because of the thin hit, the nine traveled along the tangent line, below the eight ball, and one rail up table. The cue ball would not move much because of the full hit on the nine.

See it now?
It was a nice shot and one which could have netted big rewards had the seven fallen.

btw. it's not the ten, it's the twelve, I think.

Tom
 
Last edited:

1pwannabe

Verified Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2015
Messages
842
the 2 and 10 dont look like they moved to me
the 9 ball is up table
i am really confused how you shot that
Something like this? Top-left english will reverse off the rail and hold the cue ball there.

 

One Pocket Ghost

Verified Member
Joined
May 25, 2004
Messages
9,458
This turned out great, much better than I could expect if I shot it. I would have to really know the rails on a table before I kick into balls with the table wide open.

Congrats on a well executed kick shot.
I kick good,you kick great. how did you hold whitey?
Thanks bro's......I didn't hold whitey - my friend the 9ball did...:)


the 2 and 10 dont look like they moved to me
the 9 ball is up table
i am really confused how you shot that

Of course I couldn't know exactly where on the 9ball I would end up hitting it, or how the balls would end up (lotta luck involved in semi-controlled chaos-caroms :heh).....but what I wanted/intended/needed to do, was come off of the rail and hit the 9ball either dead full on, or up to a 1/2 ball hit on the up-table side of the 9, so that the 10ball would kill the cueball right there - (as Jeff postulated in post #17)...

Anyway, crazy ball rolls happen, as we all know...like when we bank a ball cross-corner, away from our opponents long rail at a loose stack, and the ball manages to go back and forth between all the balls without touching any of them and ends up about back where it started from, causing us to sell out...:mad:...

...so similarly to that here...on my kick-carom...I came off the rail almost dead ahead into the 9ball - the 9 almost went through the 8 13 opening without touching anything - but just grazed the top of the 12ball, sending the 7 towards my pocket, and the 9ball going cross-corner to end up where you see it in the pic.

- Ghost

PS, I now see that Tom figured it out exactly, and 1pw diagrammed it, as I was typing out the very same thing...:)
 
Last edited:

LSJohn

Verified Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2013
Messages
7,986
View attachment 13835

View attachment 13836

I kick good,you kick great.how did you hold whitey?
Yeah, I didn't even notice that... had to hit the 9 almost exactly full in the face, but even though, how was the CB hit hard enough to move the 7 that far and stop there.?

I'm thinking wrong about something.

edit: OK, I read the explanations, and I believe all of you, but hard for me to see that the 10 would move the 7 that far hit as thin as it was and 9 as soft as it was.
 
Last edited:

jtompilot

Verified Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2009
Messages
4,340
Thanks bro's......I didn't hold whitey - my friend the 9ball did...:)





Of course I couldn't know exactly where on the 9ball I would end up hitting it, or how the balls would end up (lotta luck involved in semi-controlled chaos-caroms :heh).....but what I wanted/intended/needed to do, was come off of the rail and hit the 9ball either dead full on, or up to a 1/2 ball hit on the up-table side of the 9, so that the 10ball would kill the cueball right there - (as Jeff postulated in post #17)...

Anyway, crazy ball rolls happen, as we all know...like when we bank a ball cross-corner, away from our opponents long rail at a loose stack, and the ball manages to go back and forth between all the balls without touching any of them and ends up about back where it started from, causing us to sell out...:mad:...

...so similarly to that here...on my kick-carom...I came off the rail almost dead ahead into the 9ball - the 9 almost went through the 8 13 opening without touching anything - but just grazed the top of the 12ball, sending the 7 towards my pocket, and the 9ball going cross-corner to end up where you see it in the pic.

- Ghost

PS, I now see that Tom figured it out exactly, and 1pw diagrammed it, as I was typing out the very same thing...:)
Pretty close to the shot I was talking about. Looks like it worked out good
 

lll

Verified Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2007
Messages
15,487
Larry, it looks from here like what happened was he kicked full into the face of the nine ball and it in turn hit the ten paper thin. The ten hit the seven full on so the ten stopped dead. The seven then moved in the direction of his pocket, and because of the thin hit, the nine traveled along the tangent line, below the eight ball, and one rail up table. The cue ball would not move much because of the full hit on the nine.

See it now?
It was a nice shot and one which could have netted big rewards had the seven fallen.

btw. it's not the ten, it's the twelve, I think.

Tom
Something like this? Top-left english will reverse off the rail and hold the cue ball there.

huge thanks guys......kudos.jpg
 
Top