Ghost vs. Arturo 19 wwyd

ChicagoFats

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Simple and effective. Object is to hide the TWO. Now he can't use the EIGHT to return the safety. If he goes up table I have the Eight to use a striker or simple safety.
I like combining two of the shots suggested.
You can play off the 8 but instead of hiding behind the 1 ball... you actually play off the 8 to push the 1 ball to your hole.

This clears the 8 from his side.
If the 13 is a dead combo for my opponent then I like leaving the 8 ball there and doing the two rail kick.
 

cincy_kid

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I like combining two of the shots suggested.
You can play off the 8 but instead of hiding behind the 1 ball... you actually play off the 8 to push the 1 ball to your hole.

This clears the 8 from his side.
If the 13 is a dead combo for my opponent then I like leaving the 8 ball there and doing the two rail kick.
The problem with this shot is you cant control the CB well enough to make sure you hit the foot rail before contacting the 1.

I also like Tom's 2 rail kick on the 1 and its the first thing I saw because of the natural safety you play up into or behind the stack. Speed is important on this shot as you want to make sure you hit it hard enough to get above the 2 (blocking the 1) yet not hard enough to sell out the 3 above the stack.

One other shot I saw but I cant tell if I can see enough of the 2 to do it from the pics. Shoot the 2 with some LHE and a half tip below center like you are shooting it straight on but with english purposely throwing it to the right missing his pocket. Aim the 2 to hit the opponent's long rail right above his pocket. This pushes the 1 by your hole and the 2 ball should clear as well. The CB stops right there with the 12 blocking the 1.

Something like this:



 

wincardona

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Playing the 5ball off the 3ball looks to be the better shot for most, it's easier to execute and there's a good possibility that it removes all the balls from opponents side which is always a good thing. Removing the balls from opponents side will limit what your opponent can do for several innings and will give you more time to develop a stronger position. I'm not sure if I would follow the cue ball to the side rail or position the cue ball in the stack I would need to look at the angle offered to make my decision, both methods have value.

Kicking the 1ball is also an appealing option, however, this option doesn't move balls from your opponents side as effectively as the 5ball option but if struck well it would move the 1ball in a threatening position and possibly locate the cue ball in the stack. However, the cue ball could strike the 8ball and impede the progress of the value of the shot and allow your opponent to see the 6ball, I understand that it doesn't figure but still a possibility. By the way if your opponent can see the 6ball it can be crossed into his pocket..just thought it should be brought up.

If I were the shooter I would choose the 5ball option, it's just a more dependable shot and it will move balls away from opponents side the majority of the time which will enable you to live more comfortably while you figure ways to gain a superior position. Not to mention that the 5ball could create a strong position for the shooter then you will have moved balls from your opponents side and started a threatening position for yourself.

Dr. Bill
 
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ChicagoFats

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The problem with this shot is you cant control the CB well enough to make sure you hit the foot rail before contacting the 1.

I also like Tom's 2 rail kick on the 1 and its the first thing I saw because of the natural safety you play up into or behind the stack. Speed is important on this shot as you want to make sure you hit it hard enough to get above the 2 (blocking the 1) yet not hard enough to sell out the 3 above the stack.

One other shot I saw but I cant tell if I can see enough of the 2 to do it from the pics. Shoot the 2 with some LHE and a half tip below center like you are shooting it straight on but with english purposely throwing it to the right missing his pocket. Aim the 2 to hit the opponent's long rail right above his pocket. This pushes the 1 by your hole and the 2 ball should clear as well. The CB stops right there with the 12 blocking the 1.

Something like this:



I thought about this shot immediately, but seems to me ... when I am in a game situation I always hit the ball too full and end up leaving the 2 ball in front of my opponents pocket.
 

wincardona

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I thought about this shot immediately, but seems to me ... when I am in a game situation I always hit the ball too full and end up leaving the 2 ball in front of my opponents pocket.
Exactly!! There's no guarantee you will be able to move the 2ball effectively. The shot doesn't lay well enough to take the gamble imo. Don't forget if this option is chosen you not only need to be concerned with moving the 2ball but the 1ball could come back across table if it's not hit well.

Dr. Bill
 

Tom Wirth

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Playing the 5ball off the 3ball looks to be the better shot for most, it's easier to execute and there's a good possibility that it removes all the balls from opponents side which is always a good thing. Removing the balls from opponents side will limit what your opponent can do for several innings and will give you more time to develop a stronger position. I'm not sure if I would follow the cue ball to the side rail or position the cue ball in the stack I would need to look at the angle offered to make my decision, both methods have value.



Dr. Bill
Bill, as I started with my first post, I like the five ball shot but I must point out that even though you can expect to move the three and probably also the nine ball from your opponent's side of the table you are also taking the five ball from your own scoring area. The five goes in your hole and does not go in his. I like the position of the five right where it is. In addition, like the two rail kick on the one, there are other potential down sides to the five ball shot. Where the five goes off the three depends on the thickness of the hit. It probably will come out fine but it doesn't have to. As an example, hit the three too thinly and the five may come back into the stack. That may not be a good thing.

Bottom line is in my opinion I could not find fault with a player choosing one of these two options over the other. They both have their up sides and their down sides.
 

One Pocket Ghost

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poolisboring;216720 said:
...... hey Ghost. nice to see a op break as good as mine LOL......
Dat's how it goes pib...sometimes we get a killer break - sometimes a horror story break, like when the corner ball leaks out in front of your opponent's pocket - and sometimes a vanilla/blah break like this one.

- Ghost
 

baby huey

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I see the five ball shot off the three and it is doable. I am not sure about where or how to play the cue ball with this shot as the five could come back towards the two striped balls and open them up for a sell out. Others feel it a freebie but I'm not so sure about that. I prefer to go off the seven ball here and tuck in behind the one ball. I choose the seven vs the eight because I don't want to move any more balls to my opponents side and with the seven ball I can open the rack just a little for me possibly to use at a later time.
 

wincardona

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Bill, as I started with my first post, I like the five ball shot but I must point out that even though you can expect to move the three and probably also the nine ball from your opponent's side of the table you are also taking the five ball from your own scoring area. The five goes in your hole and does not go in his. I like the position of the five right where it is. In addition, like the two rail kick on the one, there are other potential down sides to the five ball shot. Where the five goes off the three depends on the thickness of the hit. It probably will come out fine but it doesn't have to. As an example, hit the three too thinly and the five may come back into the stack. That may not be a good thing.

Bottom line is in my opinion I could not find fault with a player choosing one of these two options over the other. They both have their up sides and their down sides.
I understand what you are saying that there are down sides to both shots but what i'm focusing on is the figured upside to both shots and the likeness of reaching the upside for both shots. I can comfortably feel the value in shooting the 5ball, all three balls including the 5ball should end up in a better position for the shooter. It's not like the 5ball is in such a great position for the shooter which it's actually not Tom. If you notice that the 5ball can be banked comfortably either into the pocket or into the stack for the non shooter as it lays. Also it takes away the benefit from the shooter to position the cue ball on that side of the stack as a defensive move because the 5ball can be banked. Had the 5ball been positioned lower then the position of the 5ball would be positioned much better, agree? Furthermore
it doesn't even look like there is the angle needed to kick the 1ball, take a close look at the picture, if you will. But even if there were enough room i'm still shooting the 5ball because of the anticipated result.:sorry

Dr. Bill
 

wincardona

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I see the five ball shot off the three and it is doable. I am not sure about where or how to play the cue ball with this shot as the five could come back towards the two striped balls and open them up for a sell out. Others feel it a freebie but I'm not so sure about that. I prefer to go off the seven ball here and tuck in behind the one ball. I choose the seven vs the eight because I don't want to move any more balls to my opponents side and with the seven ball I can open the rack just a little for me possibly to use at a later time.
Yes Jerry, you would have to be at the table to figure the angle which would be the best way to play the cue ball. Opening up the two stripe balls wouldn't be a concern for me I would just follow the cue ball to the side rail and let the balls open as they will.

It's hard for me to play a passive shot here when the likelihood of moving balls to my side from my opponents side is that readily available and creating a better position isn't a stretch as well. Imo it's a good gamble, or perhaps an investment. lol.

Dr. Bill
 

Tom Wirth

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Well Bill, This could be argued back and forth, up and down and sideways, for awhile but like I said in my last post I can see value in both shots. What you say about the potential bank on the five from its current position is debatable. The same can be said for any loose ball on the table given the cue ball be in position. I could easily say the five is in ideal position to break open the stack should I get a decent angle on it. That's not to say the five can't be relocated to a better position. I'm only saying that for the moment it's fine where it is. Sorry to disagree with you about the five that it would be better located lower to the stack, but I do. The five as it lays now is ideally located to send the cue ball to my opponent's side of the stack which will yield far better results should I have any angle which cuts the ball to the left. Had it been lower my cue ball ends up on the wrong side of the table and balls sent toward my opponent's pocket. In other words, I can't shoot it!

Aside from that what you say about the one ball shot may be true, then again it is hard to tell without being at the table. Still, I like the potential immediate threat this shot presents should the cue ball react as I suspect it will.

I don't doubt one of these two shots will have been chosen. Like in most instances it comes down to the quality of the execution that tells the tale.

Tom
 
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Nick B

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Ghost vs. Arturo 19 wwyd

I thought about this shot immediately, but seems to me ... when I am in a game situation I always hit the ball too full and end up leaving the 2 ball in front of my opponents pocket.


I think I would me more inclined to hit the topside of the ONE and throw it upstairs and cross the TWO back to my side. Easier to execute and I can stuff the cue ball to the back of the stack.. This will definitely clear opponents pocket.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

Kybanks

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I like the 5 into the 3 with speed and stunning the cb forward towards the rail. Not mentioned yet but the 3 ball has a very good chance of going 2 rails and laying by my hole.
 

baby huey

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Dr. Bill, you know my style very well. In my old age I've lost some of my aggressive tendencies and early on when I'm not in a trap, I tend to tickle the rack a little more and see what develops. My shot off the seven ball will most likely leave a straight back on the nine ball but if I get the cueball close to the one ball he'll have to come up with something that pushes balls away from his side. Tom likes the carom with the 5/3 and it's a good shot. I just prefer to wait a little longer. Just remember like in poker, "It's not about the chips you win, it's about the chips you don't lose".
 

OneRock

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One thing I immediately noticed about the 5-3 is the possibility of the 3 coming off the left side of the 9 to double kiss the CB. For that alone, I opt to go for the 2-rail kick on the 1. My mind is programmed to eliminate the direct threat posed by the 1.
 

wincardona

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One thing I immediately noticed about the 5-3 is the possibility of the 3 coming off the left side of the 9 to double kiss the CB. For that alone, I opt to go for the 2-rail kick on the 1. My mind is programmed to eliminate the direct threat posed by the 1.
Pete, if the 5ball is struck anywhere close to being executed well you're cutting the 3ball to the right and the 3ball will either hitt the top of the 9ball or possibly miss it entirely. That's the beauty of the shot, it's laying so a 'll balls go away without incident. Now if you butcher the shot then you deserve to end up in trouble the same if you butchered any other shot.

DR. Bill
 

beatle

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i see both as viable shots. personally since i always play with the best of it selling out is back on my take a chance list.

i go for the two rail on the one as i find that type of shot very easy to make or put in front of my hole and hide the cueball. that keeps my 5 ball in play and him hurting for a shot that wont cost him balls.

against top players many of our shots we choose can be very wrong. as they can get out of most traps by shooting.
 

OneRock

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I do like it, and those were the only two viable options that I saw immediately. I still prefer the 2-railer on the 1 for me personally, though I could easily change my mind once I'm at the table. I do agree that the 5-3 is lying perfectly. The shooter must possess very good CB control to stun the CB forward and have it come to rest by the side rail. I've practiced this quite a bit in the past by hitting the CB just above center with a stop-shot attitude.

I'm not surprised I picked the same option as Tom Wirth, having sparred with him for all these years.


Pete, if the 5ball is struck anywhere close to being executed well you're cutting the 3ball to the right and the 3ball will either hitt the top of the 9ball or possibly miss it entirely. That's the beauty of the shot, it's laying so a 'll balls go away without incident. Now if you butcher the shot then you deserve to end up in trouble the same if you butchered any other shot.

DR. Bill
 

One Pocket Ghost

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Well, as I've said before, although Arturo shoots very straight (how could he not, since after all, he's Filipino :heh) and will drill a ball in when necessary, he doesn't like to take chances and leans towards playing a conservative game ...that said, he shot the conservative shot that Jerry and a coupla other guys chose - thinning a ball and going under the 1...Arturo executed it well - here's how it turned out >>>
 

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lll

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Well, as I've said before, although Arturo shoots very straight (how could he not, since after all, he's Filipino :heh) and will drill a ball in when necessary, he doesn't like to take chances and leans towards playing a conservative game ...that said, he shot the conservative shot that Jerry and a coupla other guys chose - thinning a ball and going under the 1...Arturo executed it well - here's how it turned out >>>
GREAT EXECUTION ARTURO...:)
what would you have shot if it was your shot not arturo's?? << question to ghost
and
ghost what did you from there??
 
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