G. Owen vs. A. Pagulayan 2010 D.C.C. #6

NH Steve

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wincardona said:
There's another shot that hasn't yet been discussed, and that is to play a three cushion safety with a medium soft speed and reposition the cue ball near the ball on the foot spot.

How many times have we played a three cushion kick toward our pocket? 1000's of times, right? Think a little out of the box and envision this shot, it's not that tough to do and the reward is a game winner.

Call me crazy if you like, but I can see myself actually playing this shot in high $$$ action. Believe it or not.:cool:

Billy I.
Good call, Billy. It does look like there is a path. The kick route is a little out of the usual starting/ending points that we are usually dealing with on those three-rail kicks though, which is presumably why no one else came up with the shot. If I was to use this kick I would probably try to use the "spot on the wall" to help execute it, given that the starting point is a little out of the ordinary. So, I've drawn a black line from the corner approximately to where I think the normal 3 cushion kicking line might be to end up at the side of the rack. Then marked that "spot" in the audience about 9 feet away (hope they don't move, lol), then kick with a little left english towards that spot. Bingo! I like it :D

Where is the Ghost -- he could probably help me with this...
 

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lll

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NH Steve said:
Good call, Billy. It does look like there is a path. The kick route is a little out of the usual starting/ending points that we are usually dealing with on those three-rail kicks though, which is presumably why no one else came up with the shot. If I was to use this kick I would probably try to use the "spot on the wall" to help execute it, given that the starting point is a little out of the ordinary. So, I've drawn a black line from the corner approximately to where I think the normal 3 cushion kicking line might be to end up at the side of the rack. Then marked that "spot" in the audience about 9 feet away (hope they don't move, lol), then kick with a little left english towards that spot. Bingo! I like it :D

Where is the Ghost -- he could probably help me with this...
the q ball is at starting point diamond 8 and you want to hit diamond 2 on rail 3 so you aim at diamond 6 on the first rail with running english
8-2 =6
3 cushion corner 5 system
that gives you the same tracks as steves diagram

island man should get credit for suggesting the shot
he stopped on the long rail at about diamond 2
he just didnt extent it to the stack
 

fred bentivegna

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Would run much shorter

Would run much shorter

lll said:
the q ball is at starting point diamond 8 and you want to hit diamond 2 on rail 3 so you aim at diamond 6 on the first rail with running english
8-2 =6
3 cushion corner 5 system
that gives you the same tracks as steves diagram

island man should get credit for suggesting the shot
he stopped on the long rail at about diamond 2
he just didnt extent it to the stack

8 to 6 to = 2, would run much, much shorter. 2 on the 3rd rail does not even get you to the corner on a pool table. To hit the ball indicated the the cue ball would have to be heading to the 1st diamond on the foot rail, coming off 3 d. at the least.

Beard

I think Cardone drank too much Absinthe in Paris.
 

NH Steve

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fred bentivegna said:
8 to 6 to = 2, would run much, much shorter. 2 on the 3rd rail does not even get you to the corner on a pool table. To hit the ball indicated the the cue ball would have to be heading to the 1st diamond on the foot rail, coming off 3 d. at the least.

Beard

I think Cardone drank too much Absinthe in Paris.
That shot is on the TV table at DCC -- doesn't that run long? I think I drew it as if I expected the table to run a little long... but anyway, it is just "food for thought" -- anyone considering this kind of shot better get their actual playing table "down pat".
 

lll

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fred bentivegna said:
8 to 6 to = 2, would run much, much shorter. 2 on the 3rd rail does not even get you to the corner on a pool table. To hit the ball indicated the the cue ball would have to be heading to the 1st diamond on the foot rail, coming off 3 d. at the least.

Beard

I think Cardone drank too much Absinthe in Paris.
well of course you are right:)
2 on the 3rd rail would proably get you one diamond short of the corner
usually on a pool table its track 3 to the corner (or thereabouts)
( where i play i need to hit 2 1/4 diamond on the first rail to get to 2 3/4 on the third rail to get to the corner)
so technically 8-3=5 you would have to hit thru diamond 5 on the first rail
to get to diamiond 3
freddy do I understand that right???

steves diagram was so nice for the classic lines on a billiard table that i used those numbers.
 

senor

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wincardona said:
There's another shot that hasn't yet been discussed, and that is to play a three cushion safety with a medium soft speed and reposition the cue ball near the ball on the foot spot.

How many times have we played a three cushion kick toward our pocket? 1000's of times, right? Think a little out of the box and envision this shot, it's not that tough to do and the reward is a game winner.

Call me crazy if you like, but I can see myself actually playing this shot in high $$$ action. Believe it or not.:cool:

Billy I.
There's a shot that will really have your opponent pulling his hair out. Nice one. It might be the best shot if that 7(?) didn't look like it might be make-able. I would shoot shots like these a lot when the stack was "well-formed" and it appeared it would be difficult to sell out if the stack wasn't hit perfectly. Room for error, in other words, is what to look for.
 

mr3cushion

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In need of LESSONS badly!

In need of LESSONS badly!

All I can say is, all of you guys need some lessons on the "Diamond System"!

#1 Billy, the "Spot on the Wall System" isn't worth two dead flies! And if you're forced to use it you really need to learn the correct returns on a POOL table. Also, the spot on the wall ONLY works close to the REAL numbers when the spot you're aiming at is the SAME DISTANCE the width of the table, eg. 4.5'.

#2 Larry, you have the correct idea but, the WRONG calculations for any table, pool or billiard. The CB position you are calling #8 is Really 9, so right off the bat the CB is going to run SHORT!

#3 Freddy, you have the WRONG calculation as Larry as to the CB position, the number is 9. But, you are 100% correct, the CB will run WAY too SHORT!

#4 Larry, You're getting closer, but still the WRONG calculations!

I'm sure many players know the routine to test a POOL table for kicking balls, whether it be 1cush, 2 cush or 3 cushions. if not, here we go!

Place the CB in any corner (5) shoot across to the opposite LONG rail to diamond (3) to test if the CB returns to the OPPOSITE corner. If so, everything is good, but, I've NEVER found a pool table where the "Diamond System" numbers work perfect, ALWAYS SHORT!

When you establish how SHORT the table runs, you then adjust your CB starting point accordingly, if table is 0.5 points short, your CB position 0.5 less than NORMAL, example (CB 5 is now 4.5), (CB 8 is now 7.5), everyone got it!

Now to the shot at hand, the player is basicly trying to leave the CB in the front of the stack. We're NOT trying to go 3 rails to the opposite corner, MUCH longer than that. The player needs to contact the THIRD cushion at least at the # 3 diamond on the 3rd rail to hit the front ball on the stack.

The calculation for the shot in this thread without ajustments is as follows: (CB=9, 3rd rail=3,) CB9 minus 3rd rail 3 = Aiming point 6 on 1st cushion. (9-3=6)!

And that is our lesson for today, "boys n girls"!

Bill Smith "Mr3Cushion"
http://mr3cushion.com

P.S. If anyone would like a diagram of the CORRECT numbers for the "Diamond System". PM me, I'll be more than glad to send.
 
Last edited:

lll

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mr3cushion said:
All I can say is, all of you guys need some lessons on the "Diamond System"!

#1 Billy, the "Spot on the Wall System" isn't worth two dead flies! And if you're forced to use it you really need to learn the correct returns on a POOL table. Also, the spot on the wall ONLY works close to the REAL numbers when the spot you're aiming at is the SAME DISTANCE the width of the table, eg. 4.5'.

#2 Larry, you have the correct idea but, the WRONG calculations for any table, pool or billiard. The CB position you are calling #8 is Really 9, so right off the bat the CB is going to run SHORT!

#3 Freddy, you have the WRONG calculation as Larry as to the CB position, the number is 9. But, you are 100% correct, the CB will run WAY too SHORT!

#4 Larry, You're getting closer, but still the WRONG calculations!

I'm sure many players know the routine to test a POOL table for kicking balls, whether it be 1cush, 2 cush or 3 cushions. if not, here we go!

Place the CB in any corner (5) shoot across to the opposite LONG rail to diamond (3) to test if the CB returns to the OPPOSITE corner. If so, everything is good, but, I've NEVER found a pool table where the "Diamond System" numbers work perfect, ALWAYS SHORT!

When you establish how SHORT the table runs, you then adjust your CB starting point accordingly, if table is 0.5 points short, your CB position 0.5 less than NORMAL, example (CB 5 is now 4.5), (CB 8 is now 7.5), everyone got it!

Now to the shot at hand, the player is basicly trying to leave the CB in the front of the stack. We're NOT trying to go 3 rails to the opposite corner, MUCH longer than that. The player needs to contact the THIRD cushion at least at the # 3 diamond on the 3rd rail to hit the front ball on the stack.

The calculation for the shot in this thread without ajustments is as follows: (CB=9, 3rd rail=3,) CB9 minus 3rd rail 3 = Aiming point 6 on 1st cushion. (9-6=3)!

And that is our lesson for today, "boys n girls"!

Bill Smith "Mr3Cushion"
http://mr3cushion.com

P.S. If anyone would like a diagram of the CORRECT numbers for the "Diamond System". PM me, I'll be more than glad to send.
this diagram was the first i found when i googled corner 5.
its how i remember the numbers
cc5.jpg
i dont recall seeing a starting point number 9
please pm me the correct numbering system
thanks
 

lll

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mr3cushion said:
The calculation for the shot in this thread without ajustments is as follows: (CB=9, 3rd rail=3,) CB9 minus 3rd rail 3 = Aiming point 6 on 1st cushion. (9-3=6)!

And that is our lesson for today, "boys n girls"!

Bill Smith "Mr3Cushion"
http://mr3cushion.com

P.S. If anyone would like a diagram of the CORRECT numbers for the "Diamond System". PM me, I'll be more than glad to send.
its interesting that you,steve ,and i all want to go thru diamond 6 on the first rail:confused:
 

mr3cushion

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lll said:
its interesting that you,steve ,and i all want to go thru diamond 6 on the first rail:confused:
Larry; Keep in mind this is NOT the CORRECT calculation for this table. It would be if the table were a perfect 3 Cushion 5'x10' billiard table. I would estimate that this Diamond table plays at least 0.5 short, so the CB number would be 8.5 not 9, calculation: (CB8.5-3=Aim point 5.5).

Bill Smith "Mr3Cushion"
http://mr3cushion.com
 

bstroud

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lll said:
this diagram was the first i found when i googled corner 5.
its how i remember the numbers
View attachment 3574
i dont recall seeing a starting point number 9
please pm me the correct numbering system
thanks
Boy, I hate to smarten you guys up but the cue ball number in the corner is not EXACTLY 5. It depends on the angle you are shooting from. For example: If you are shooting from the short rail toward a long rail you must project the edge of the cushion on the long rail until it intersects the short rail. That is 5. If you use the center of the pocket you will be off at least.3 diamond.

I would only shoot this shot if I hated money. There are too many other easier less dangerous shots available.

Bill Stroud
 

mr3cushion

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bstroud said:
Boy, I hate to smarten you guys up but the cue ball number in the corner is not EXACTLY 5. It depends on the angle you are shooting from. For example: If you are shooting from the short rail toward a long rail you must project the edge of the cushion on the long rail until it intersects the short rail. That is 5. If you use the center of the pocket you will be off at least.3 diamond.

I would only shoot this shot if I hated money. There are too many other easier less dangerous shots available.

Bill Stroud
Bill; Anyone with any common sense knows the CENTER of the pocket is NEUTRAL 5, not short or long. And the variation is NOT 0.3, but less, if it exsists at all!

Every table has it's own playing conditions, it needs to be tested as described.

Bill Smith "Mr3Cushion"
http://mr3cushion.com
 

bstroud

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mr3cushion said:
Bill; Anyone with any common sense knows the CENTER of the pocket is NEUTRAL 5, not short or long. And the variation is NOT 0.3, but less, if it exsists at all!

Every table has it's own playing conditions, it needs to be tested as described.

Bill Smith "Mr3Cushion"
http://mr3cushion.com
Bill,

You probably learned the diamond system from the green Hoppy book like I did.
Much of the info in there is just plain incorrect.

Diamond 5 is not at the center of the pocket. If you believe that you are making adjustments every time you use his system. Why not calculate thye way Cuelmens and other great European players do?

Bill Stroud
 

fred bentivegna

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Misunderstanding?

Misunderstanding?

mr3cushion said:
Bill; Anyone with any common sense knows the CENTER of the pocket is NEUTRAL 5, not short or long. And the variation is NOT 0.3, but less, if it exsists at all!

Every table has it's own playing conditions, it needs to be tested as described.

Bill Smith "Mr3Cushion"
http://mr3cushion.com
Mr3 C., Stroud is talking about a pool table "5. And he is right about that. But he is wrong to think that anybody who hung at Bensingers wouldnt know where "5 began on a pool or billiard table. If a billiard encyclopedia was a thousand pages long, that would be on about page 2 or 3.

Beard
 

mr3cushion

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bstroud said:
Bill,

You probably learned the diamond system from the green Hoppy book like I did.
Much of the info in there is just plain incorrect.

Diamond 5 is not at the center of the pocket. If you believe that you are making adjustments every time you use his system. Why not calculate thye way Cuelmens and other great European players do?

Bill Stroud
Bill; I've been using the RC Marks System for 40 yrs, I know ALL the aspects of it! We're talking about a POOL table, NOT billiard table, where there is NO pocket. I don't think you understand the theory behind what you are saying. There is NO short or long starting point on a POOL table if you're trying to locate the #5 diamond. If you CB lays along the long cushion, your CB starting position is less than 50, 47,40,32, etc. If the CB lays along the short cushion, the the CB starting position is more than 50, 55, 68, 84, etc.
You're not dealing with a corner that comes together, as on a billiard table, this is really simple to understand!

Bil Smith "Mr3Cushion"
http://mr3cushion.com

P.S. I did not learn the Hoppe system from his book, the man who taught me to play 45 yrs ago already knew that that system was wrong. He knew the correct numbers way back then, before Ceulemans, his name was Ernie Presto!
 

bstroud

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mr3cushion said:


Bill; I've been using the RC Marks System for 40 yrs, I know ALL the aspects of it! We're talking about a POOL table, NOT billiard table, where there is NO pocket. I don't think you understand the theory behind what you are saying. There is NO short or long starting point on a POOL table if you're trying to locate the #5 diamond. If you CB lays along the long cushion, your CB starting position is less than 50, 47,40,32, etc. If the CB lays along the short cushion, the the CB starting position is more than 50, 55, 68, 84, etc.
You're not dealing with a corner that comes together, as on a billiard table, this is really simple to understand!

Bil Smith "Mr3Cushion"
http://mr3cushion.com

P.S. I did not learn the Hoppe system from his book, the man who taught me to play 45 yrs ago already knew that that system was wrong. He knew the correct numbers way back then, before Ceulemans, his name was Ernie Presto!
Bill,

I am sure you are a better 3C player than I am. I just do the math and look for the best solution. What works for 3C does not always work for a pool table. I use many systems that have proven themselves through the years and I know for sure that 5 or 50 is not in the middle of the corner pocket. It always depends exactly where you are shooting from.

Bill Stroud
 

mr3cushion

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bstroud said:
Bill,

I am sure you are a better 3C player than I am. I just do the math and look for the best solution. What works for 3C does not always work for a pool table. I use many systems that have proven themselves through the years and I know for sure that 5 or 50 is not in the middle of the corner pocket. It always depends exactly where you are shooting from.

Bill Stroud
Bill; All I can say, "You just don't get it"!

Bill Smith "Mr3Cushion"
http://mr3cushion.com
 
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