Frozen OB to Rail, and CB Frozen to OB Rule Question

naji

Verified Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
Messages
63
I have seen varying rules to frozen OB to Rail, and CB Frozen to OB Rule Question:
1. OB frozen to rail, and CB is not frozen to OB, CB has to hit a rail, or OB has to hit different rail-no problem here
2. OB frozen to rail, and CB is on top of it and frozen to OB, one says CB has to hit different rail than one OB is frozen to, other player says, CB can hit the same rail that OB frozen to, which is correct; obviously, one can agree to the rules ahead of time, but some rules do not get covered.

Thanks.
 

androd

Verified Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2008
Messages
7,219
I have seen varying rules to frozen OB to Rail, and CB Frozen to OB Rule Question:
1. OB frozen to rail, and CB is not frozen to OB, CB has to hit a rail, or OB has to hit different rail-no problem here
2. OB frozen to rail, and CB is on top of it and frozen to OB, one says CB has to hit different rail than one OB is frozen to,

Thanks.
Why, all rails are equal. Ball first then rail=fair and legal.
Rod.
 

Tennessee Joe6

Verified Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2005
Messages
372
8.4 Driven to a Rail
A ball is said to be driven to a rail if it is not touching that rail and then touches that rail. A ball touching a rail at the start of a shot (said to be “frozen” to the rail) is not considered driven to that rail unless it leaves the rail and returns. A ball that is pocketed or driven off the
table is also considered to have been driven to a rail. A ball is assumed not to be frozen to any rail unless it is declared frozen by the referee, the shooter, or the opponent. See also Regulation 26, Calling Frozen Balls.


Dr.Dave's site has a referee guide with high speed videos of 100 referee situations. This situation is shown in high speed video.

I have found much information in the BCA Rule Book that stops antiquated house rules.
 

NH Steve

Administrator
Joined
Apr 25, 2004
Messages
8,984
I might not understand what the question is, but as long as you shoot toward the frozen object ball and then afterwards your cue ball hits either that same rail or another rail, I don't see anything wrong with the shot. Unless maybe both the cue ball and the object ball are both frozen to the same rail and also to each other -- then I would say if you go off that object ball you are frozen too you would need to go somewhere else (either another ball or another rail) to get a clean safety. Or of course you could go off a different ball if one was available.

There is this in our rules:
8. Frozen balls
For a foul to result from failure to legally strike a rail after contacting a frozen ball, the ball in question must be inspected and designated as frozen prior to a player’s shot, otherwise the ball is not considered frozen. If the cue ball becomes wedged between an object ball and the cushion and frozen to both, then legal shot requirements must be met by pocketing the frozen ball, or by contacting either another ball or another cushion enroute to a legal shot. Failure to do so is a foul.
 

Cowboy Dennis

Suspended
Joined
Dec 16, 2008
Messages
11,123
I have seen varying rules to frozen OB to Rail, and CB Frozen to OB Rule Question.

2. OB frozen to rail, and CB is on top of it and frozen to OB, one says CB has to hit different rail than one OB is frozen to, other player says, CB can hit the same rail that OB frozen to, which is correct; obviously, one can agree to the rules ahead of time, but some rules do not get covered.

Thanks.
I might not understand what the question is, but as long as you shoot toward the frozen object ball and then afterwards your cue ball hits either that same rail or another rail, I don't see anything wrong with the shot. Unless maybe both the cue ball and the object ball are both frozen to the same rail and also to each other -- then I would say if you go off that object ball you are frozen too you would need to go somewhere else (either another ball or another rail) to get a clean safety. Or of course you could go off a different ball if one was available.

There is this in our rules:
I'm thinking #2 refers to this situation:

foul.jpg

Obviously a legal shot when gambling but I could see where some might play it differently.

Dennis
 

John Brumback

Verified Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2010
Messages
1,747
The only dead rail would be the one that the oball is froze to.That does not go for the cball. Even if the two are froze to the same rail you can jack-up and draw the cball back off the oball and back to that same rail with the cball and that would be a legal shot.Someone correct me if I'm wrong about this.Pretty sure this is how all the top players play it. John B.
 

Cowboy Dennis

Suspended
Joined
Dec 16, 2008
Messages
11,123
The only dead rail would be the one that the oball is froze to.That does not go for the cball. Even if the two are froze to the same rail you can jack-up and draw the cball back off the oball and back to that same rail with the cball and that would be a legal shot.Someone correct me if I'm wrong about this.Pretty sure this is how all the top players play it. John B.
If you mean this shot (or similar) then I agree with you, that is how all of us top players would play it:p:

jb's shot.jpg
 

NH Steve

Administrator
Joined
Apr 25, 2004
Messages
8,984
Saw Efren pull exactly that Dennis. Balls weren't necessarily froze but same idea as far as the masse goes. I think it was vs Jason Miller and he botched bad when he tried to come back with the same shot. Anyway, froze or not I'm giving you credit for that shot if you can pull it off.
 

John Brumback

Verified Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2010
Messages
1,747
If you mean this shot (or similar) then I agree with you, that is how all of us top players would play it:p:

View attachment 7382
Yeah,Efren can make the cball come around from one side of the oball to the other side,right up against it:eek:,while making a good hit.It's a strong shot to have in the bag.I can do too...every once in a while:lol John B.
 

lll

Verified Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2007
Messages
15,343
If you mean this shot (or similar) then I agree with you, that is how all of us top players would play it:p:

View attachment 7382
all of us top players???(that implies you too...:eek:...:D)
does beating quad qualify as inclusion to the club??
is there a list somewhere of top players???
just askin
and at this time of night i couldnt help busting some chops:p
dennis you know i respect your 1p and pool knowledge
and i wish you all a pleasant good night:focus
 

naji

Verified Member
Joined
Jan 10, 2011
Messages
63
I'm thinking #2 refers to this situation:

View attachment 7381

Obviously a legal shot when gambling but I could see where some might play it differently.

Dennis
Thanks Dennis for the illustration. Some top players in MD area thinks it should hit another rail (not the rail OB frozen too); i guess they are wrong, since all that replied agree that it is legal shot when CB hit the same rail OB frozen to.

Thanks to all.
 
Top