Frost Vs Shuff wwyd

Mkbtank

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Frost leading in the game 6-5. Shuff's turn. His pocket is bottom Left. The 6 is less than 1/4 inch off the rail. WWYD?

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1428535847.335499.jpg
 
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gulfportdoc

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The obvious ideal would be to bank the 6 cross-corner. But if your implication is that the 6 is not bankable, then I might shoot the CB left off the 5 ball and down to the foot rail in order to create a blocker with the 5 to my hole.

What did Shuff do? Have no idea. Maybe he 5-railed the 6 ball.:)

~Doc
 

mr3cushion

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I wish the image was a little more level, but, I think this looks close to what I see!

View attachment 11945

I would play a, 'Firm stun shot', hitting the CB about 1 tip below center, so the CB floats downs about a foot or so from the 5 balls original position. Trying get behind all 3 balls by Shuff's pocket.

This is the kind of action on the 'CB' snooker players hit very well, the, 'Creeping stun shot!' Obviously, they would be pocketing a ball while doing this.
 
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Tom Wirth

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In my opinion there is only one shot here. It is to bank the six, but how? Attempting to bank it in the conventional way by crossing it thinly risks an almost certain double kiss. Either that or the cue ball could scratch off the six. Not good either way.

So, how to bank the six? My answer is the go rail first. This changes the angle of deflection sending the cue ball safely four rails around the table toward the head rail. The six must travel toward Bandon's side of the table so the focus should be solely on the cue ball movement.

I will be interested in Brandon's choice. I have my doubts he plays this shot.

Tom
 

mr3cushion

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In my opinion there is only one shot here. It is to bank the six, but how? Attempting to bank it in the conventional way by crossing it thinly risks an almost certain double kiss. Either that or the cue ball could scratch off the six. Not good either way.

So, how to bank the six? My answer is the go rail first. This changes the angle of deflection sending the cue ball safely four rails around the table toward the head rail. The six must travel toward Bandon's side of the table so the focus should be solely on the cue ball movement.

I will be interested in Brandon's choice. I have my doubts he plays this shot.

Tom
Tom, I looked at that shot for a second, to me NO good! You will 95% for sure run into one of the balls near the rail by Shuff's pocket! You CAN'T get around those balls, without contacting the 6 ball, very, very thin, and have some reverse on the CB to get down to the other end rail!

The angle just isn't there, IMHO!
 

One Pocket Ghost

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In my opinion there is only one shot here. It is to bank the six, but how? Attempting to bank it in the conventional way by crossing it thinly risks an almost certain double kiss. Either that or the cue ball could scratch off the six. Not good either way.

So, how to bank the six? My answer is the go rail first. This changes the angle of deflection sending the cue ball safely four rails around the table toward the head rail. The six must travel toward Bandon's side of the table so the focus should be solely on the cue ball movement.

I will be interested in Brandon's choice. I have my doubts he plays this shot.

Tom
I agree...that's the shot I was about to post up as my choice, but you beat me to it...that's another shot for the students to put in their arsenal...the only danger to shooting the shot, is to make sure you don't clip the 6ball too thick or too thin, so that you make sure to 2-rail between the 5 and the 11 - not too tough a hit for experienced One Pocket players to execute..

- Ghost
 
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Tom Wirth

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Tom, I looked at that shot for a second, to me NO good! You will 95% for sure run into one of the balls near the rail by Shuff's pocket! You CAN'T get around those balls, without contacting the 6 ball, very, very thin, and have some reverse on the CB to get down to the other end rail!

The angle just isn't there, IMHO!
Bill, at the risk of being curt. You are wrong. A thin hit can most certainly create the angle which misses any and all of the other object balls. It also provides the most predictably safe outcome of any shot I see.

Your option, even if hit perfectly which is unlikely because of the power and control needed, is dangerous to say the least. There is no cover for the cue ball at the foot end of the table and your shot brings the bank back down in that neighborhood. I'm afraid there are way too many things can go wrong with that shot.

Tom
 

mr3cushion

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Bill, at the risk of being curt. You are wrong. A thin hit can most certainly create the angle which misses any and all of the other object balls. It also provides the most predictably safe outcome of any shot I see.

Your option, even if hit perfectly which is unlikely because of the power and control needed, is dangerous to say the least. There is no cover for the cue ball at the foot end of the table and your shot brings the bank back down in that neighborhood. I'm afraid there are way too many things can go wrong with that shot.

Tom
Tom, If you contact the 6 ball thin, (1/8 or less ball) and you do happen to go around the balls, you're still leaving a VERY easy return! One other thing I even forgot to mention, the CB is NOT frozen, which means it has to be hit even WAY thinner!

If you get the thin hit, the 6 ball will still most likely be on Frost's side of the table on the bottom rail! Now all Shuff has to do is, come off the right side of the 5 ball softly, go to the side rail and hide behind the 11 ball! And put the 5 on the pocket side of the 6 ball.


This is why we have these WWYD's to get different ideas and opinions, and try to explain why to or not to play a specific shot in a specific situation!
 

Tom Wirth

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Tom, If you contact the 6 ball thin, (1/8 or less ball) and you do happen to go around the balls, you're still leaving a VERY easy return!

If you get the thin hit, the 6 ball will still most likely be on Frost's side of the table on the bottom rail! Now all Shuff has to do is, come off the right side of the 5 ball softly, go to the side rail and hide behind those 2 balls! And put the 5 on the pocket side of the 6 ball.


This is why we have these WWYD's to get different ideas and opinions, and try to explain why to or not to play a specific shot in a specific situation!
Pure speculation not based in fact, Bill. The shot can easily be controlled. First you said that 95% of the time I will hit one of the other balls. You said "The angle just isn't there." Now you say that the six ball will remain on Frost's side of the table. If that isn't enough you now anticipate the angle off the five ball which allows for a return shot. This, you cannot possibly know.

Bill, give this one a rest. :)

Tom
 

Mkbtank

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Frost Vs Shuff wwyd

Not saying what he did but I will say that I agree that Tom/Bruce's shot is a fantastic shot to have in the arsenal, and I think it could be a great shot for this layout. Also, I too would hesitate on your shot 3c for the several potential return options which are likely if you don't pocket the 3 railer. Love the banter though!! I always appreciate when we can differ in opinion and remain gentlemen. Tarry on..., :)
 

mr3cushion

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Pure speculation not based in fact, Bill. The shot can easily be controlled. First you said that 95% of the time I will hit one of the other balls. You said "The angle just isn't there." Now you say that the six ball will remain on Frost's side of the table. If that isn't enough you now anticipate the angle off the five ball which allows for a return shot. This, you cannot possibly know.

Bill, give this one a rest. :)

Tom
This will prove that 'angles' DO NOT lie! Which I do believe in! This diagram will simplify what I'm trying to stress about the, NO angle there theory or FACT!

One diagram is worth, no pundit intended, reality! So, I've even gave you the benefit of contacting the 6 ball as thin as possible, (edge to edge) outline white circle is CB, in the diagram! Lets look at the 'return angle' off the 6 ball, looks like it runs right into the 3 ball on the cushion! For every little mm the CB contacts the OB fuller it exaggerates the angle of rebound, to be honest with you could run into the 11 ball very easy also!

I think by drawing this, 'Floor plan' view it clearly shows some difficulty playing the, 'rail first' shot!

P.S. Also, what happens when you contact the 6 ball, whether thin or thicker the CB will move a little forward, (it won't take a straight line like what I've drawn, I was trying to be genreous) after contact, unless you use, extreme draw on the CB!

View attachment 11946
 
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Tom Wirth

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This will prove that 'angles' DO NOT lie! Which I do believe in! This diagram will simplify what I'm trying to stress about the, NO angle there theory or FACT!

One diagram is worth, no pundit intended, reality! So, I've even gave you the benefit of contacting the 6 ball as thin as possible, (edge to edge) outline white circle is CB, in the diagram! Lets look at the 'return angle' off the 6 ball, looks like it runs right into the 3 ball on the cushion!

I think by drawing this, 'Floor plan' view it clearly shows some difficulty playing the, 'rail first' shot!

View attachment 11946
Bill, I will take this shot to my table and see for myself and get back to you. In the meantime please defend your option.

Tom
 

Cory in dc

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I agree 100%...that's the shot I was about to post up as my choice, but you beat me to it...that's another shot for the students to put in their arsenal...the only danger to shooting the shot, is to make sure you don't clip the 6ball too thick or too thin, so that you make sure to 2-rail between the 5 and the 11 - not too tough a hit for experienced One Pocket players to execute..

- Ghost
That shot hadn't really crossed my mind, but it will from now, thanks!
 

mr3cushion

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Bill, I will take this shot to my table and see for myself and get back to you. In the meantime please defend your option.

Tom
Tom, I don't really have to defend my option, that's what is GREAT about WWYD's!

If I play my shot and loose the game, I just rack them up and play another till the end of the match, that's all!

But, I do know one thing, 'You can't take a feeling you have for a shot, because you feel you can execute it and dismiss the science behind it! The shot you've chosen is PURE science!'

The one I chose is more from experience and a feel for executing it!

Tom, just a suggestion, invest in a 'Webcam', since you have a table steps away from your computer.

Tom; let me ask you a question, if you don't mind.

"Me being a 3C player do you honestly think I would NOT shoot that shot if I thought it was feasible?" Any type of 'rail first' shots in Pool has some interest to me, this is what I see and look for! Because I may execute those, better than shooting a 'straight in!'
 

Tom Wirth

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Bill, you make me laugh. Of course you are not obligated to defend your shot but in my mind if you go to the extent of posting an opinion you should also be prepared to defend that opinion.

I took the shot to my table and I admit that the shot is not easy to pull off but I did have decent results more times than not. I found I could get the cue ball to strike the foot rail running toward the middle diamond. It then ran predictably between the corner pocket and the side pocket on the third rail after contact with the object ball.

Tom
 
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mr3cushion

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Bill, you make me laugh. Of course you are not obligated to defend your shot but in my mind if you go to the extent of posting an opinion you should also be prepared to defend that opinion.

Tom
Tom, once again! It's NOT a contest, it's what I would do! Maybe my shot is WRONG, but, I certainly would NOT shoot the rail first!

I just took a look again, the only thing I may do differently, if I was a many games ahead is, shoot the SAME shot, but try to follow the CB 2 cushions to the bottom rail on the middle of the cushion! Let my opponent lose the game, instead of me winning it!

P.S. I can't go to the billiard room tomorrow, I have Doctor's appointments. But, on Friday, I'll try to video my shot, both version on the 5x10 which is a little more difficult, (distance to travel) than the smaller table.
 
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Frank Almanza

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In my opinion there is only one shot here. It is to bank the six, but how? Attempting to bank it in the conventional way by crossing it thinly risks an almost certain double kiss. Either that or the cue ball could scratch off the six. Not good either way.

So, how to bank the six? My answer is the go rail first. This changes the angle of deflection sending the cue ball safely four rails around the table toward the head rail. The six must travel toward Bandon's side of the table so the focus should be solely on the cue ball movement.

I will be interested in Brandon's choice. I have my doubts he plays this shot.

Tom
Good call and plenty of room to get the cue ball out of there. I like your choice. I've hit that shot many times.
 

androd

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I agree 100%...that's the shot I was about to post up as my choice, but you beat me to it...that's another shot for the students to put in their arsenal...the only danger to shooting the shot, is to make sure you don't clip the 6ball too thick or too thin, so that you make sure to 2-rail between the 5 and the 11 - not too tough a hit for experienced One Pocket players to execute..

- Ghost
A rule of thumb is that the width of the rail is equal the width of an OB.
If you use the mirror image it only take a little practice to hit the edge of the OB. See diagram below.
Rod.
P.S. If anyone's interested.
 

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