From time to time I will....

12squared

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most instructors say to look at the object ball last except
on jump shots/ cue ball frozen to the rail
jmho
Hi Larry. Not sure of why you answered my post the way you did as all I was doing was answering ID asking to name one top pro looking at the cue ball last. No opinion, just fact as told to me by Ralf. There are many instructors teaching best practices but doesn't mean they are right for everyone.

Personally, I look at both last depending on what is most important to the shot, cue ball or object ball.

Hope you're well.
 

Island Drive

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Ralf Souquet told me he looks at the cue ball last on most if not all shots. This was in 2004 at DCC. I believe there are others.

And many look at the cue ball last when breaking.
On Most....I don't understand what that means?

And how does an instructor teach someone when most happens or when it does not ?
 

Island Drive

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I ASKED a straight forward question....

Tell me one top pro that looks at the cue ball last on every shot?

And your reply about on every shot was this....

Most if not all.

How do you explain that to a student/beginner?

Home boy doesn't play games, I just tell it like it is.

Like Mosconi said years ago in his instruction pamphlet.
If your object ball is frozen to the rail, you must hit the rail and the obj. ball at the same time to pocket the ball.
This was very misleading information to a player trying to understand ball movements.

I've very surprised you called me a home boy, but not anymore.
 
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mr3cushion

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I ASKED a straight forward question....

Tell me one top pro that looks at the cue ball last on every shot?

And your reply about on every shot was this....

Most if not all.

How do you explain that to a student/beginner?

Home boy doesn't play games, I just tell it like it is.

Like Mosconi said years ago in his instruction pamphlet.
If your object ball is frozen to the rail, you must hit the rail and the obj. ball at the same time to pocket the ball.
This was very misleading information to a player trying to understand ball movements.

I've very surprised you called me a home boy, but not anymore.
Drive, as I suggested before, maybe your burning question could more readily answered in the, 'Main' section where more, 'Pool players' frequent.

But, I think Dave, (12squared) gave you a very good answer! " I look at both last depending on what is most important to the shot, cue ball or object ball."
 

lll

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Hi Larry. Not sure of why you answered my post the way you did as all I was doing was answering ID asking to name one top pro looking at the cue ball last. No opinion, just fact as told to me by Ralf. There are many instructors teaching best practices but doesn't mean they are right for everyone.

Personally, I look at both last depending on what is most important to the shot, cue ball or object ball.

Hope you're well.
I answered what has been my personal experience with lessons and from reading
it was not questioning what Ralf told you. Greg Cantrell on Zabihi is also a huge advocate of cue ball last.
i am wel...thanks
stay safe
btw
i enjoy your pictures of nature you post in Facebook (y)
 

Island Drive

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Drive, as I suggested before, maybe your burning question could more readily answered in the, 'Main' section where more, 'Pool players' frequent.

But, I think Dave, (12squared) gave you a very good answer! " I look at both last depending on what is most important to the shot, cue ball or object ball."
Dave took it to the next level....lol with name calling, I get it now.
You, and I understand teaching, from different games.
I learned allot overseeing the BCA instructor program, and teaching for ten years....your & my perspectives have more give and take, we've both learned from out mistakes.
I'm just thinking of how I processed what Mosconi said without explanation and how it took me allot longer to understand ball collisions.
It felt like Dave was sticking up for a fellow 3 C player, like many would do for their spouses.
Enjoy your day.
 

lll

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Most if not all.

How do you explain that to a student/beginner?
the instructors of the SPF school of pool instruction such as Scott Lee
teach what I said before
its fairly straight forward for a beginner to learn and remember
every shot you look at the object ball last except cue ball frozen/ jump shots/ and break shouts could have also been on that list
 

mr3cushion

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the instructors of the SPF school of pool instruction such as Scott Lee
teach what I said before
its fairly straight forward for a beginner to learn and remember
every shot you look at the object ball last except cue ball frozen/ jump shots/ and break shouts could have also been on that list
Larry; maybe you, will understand the logic for Island's isistance about what the TOP, 'Pool players' look at last ball should be started in the Main section. I know you guys want to stay as far as possible from any, 'Aiming' theories! These last few posts by Drive have turned this section backwards.
 

lll

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Larry; maybe you, will understand the logic for Island's isistance about what the TOP, 'Pool players' look at last ball should be started in the Main section. I know you guys want to stay as far as possible from any, 'Aiming' theories! These last few posts by Drive have turned this section backwards.
I agree with your post
especially the last sentence
seems the vibes on the site outside the main forum have gotten contentious lately...jmho...icbw
 

12squared

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I've very surprised you called me a home boy, but not anymore.
Wow (sorry, I just saw this)

First, I said "Homie" not "home boy".

Second, in that statement, I was "Homie", not calling you anything. It was just a slang statement (I thought well known from "In Living Color" fame) and a cute way to not get sucked into strange details after I tried to answer your question about naming one top pro that looks at the cue ball last. Basically saying I don't play they game and don't want to get involved in a back and forth discussion.

But, here we are, I apologize if you took it a different way.

Let me start over:
Tell me one top pro that looks at the cue ball last on every shot?
"Ralf Souquet".

Bill M, I am a person that does not live in black and white so I added "mostly, if not always" because I'm not Ralf and can't speak for him regarding "always" as a definitive. But I answered your question based on what Ralf had told me at DCC in 2004.

I apologize to everyone for derailing Bill S's very helpful thread, but that was not the intent.

I guess a simple misunderstanding like this is how many internet wars begin, I promise you this will not be one of them 😂👍. Please carry on without me or in other words...Homie (me) don't play that game. 😂🤣(joke).

Peace ❤
 
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Dennis "Whitey" Young

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I recall mr3c did a thread on; Straight in long shots! Of course not sure of the title. But, it was for those that were having trouble with pocketing a shot similar to ob on center spot and cb by corner. He suggested that if you are having trouble then try looking at the cb ball last.
The thinking behind this IMO is once you have the shot lined up then when looking at the cb last it guarantees you now are stroking the cb where you want it.
Back in the day, once I had a shot lined up I could close my eyes and make it, it did not matter what the shot was. It is because the stroke is pure and you are hitting the cb where you want it. You guys will probably not believe this, but during practice this one time I practice extra long, 12 hours, it came to me, I wonder if I can still pocket the balls with the lights out 'total dark'. I did, I could hear the balls dropping into the pocket. I was able to memorize the balls and the shape was there. Ever seen Blood Sport movie.

I had a student that unknowingly used inside reverse english when cutting a ball on certain shots. I had a hard time discovering why he was missing the shot, until I stood in line with the shot then I seen it. I had trouble with a cut down the long rail in which the cb travel a ways to the ob, I was over cutting it. Finally I looked at the cb last and discovered it, I was inadvertingly putting inside english and thus throwing the cb and over cutting it.

On the grip, I personally would not coach a student to grip the cue in one place or the other, unless their stroke is not going straight through. Or, as mr3c points out; 'they run out of stroke. I recall Sigel demonstrating how to position your hand on the cue and it is as mr3c has it. 90 degrees to the upper arm.
Mosconi in his handbook states; " the grip should be two inches behind the balance point. This is where I grip the cue when I had an elbow point. Now with less elbow point I am 3" behind the balance point. The balance point is a direct relationship to the length of the cue. 57" cue is 17", 58" cue is 18" and so forth. My Rambo is 57-1/2" and the balance point is 17-1/2". Mosconi does not have much of an elbow point.
I use a two finger grip that is relaxed, not gripping the cue hard, similar to D. Orcollo. Sometimes I catch myself tightly gripping the cue, all tensed up! I have notice that if I tense up the grip the cue ball looses the action I want.

Mr3 stance is somewhat upright, as he explained to me; "it gives me better vision of the table to see the angles and to visualize the shot" not verbatim of course. Being more upright I think effects the forearm and elbow point and thus the 90 degree.

Some players use a full grip and also pause the stroke, such as Allison Fisher, and if you count her strokes I believe it is 11 and she repeats this every time. In recent years she has got away from this and her stroke count varies and now she is not playing quite as well. This is a teaching of mr3c to establish addressing the shot the same every time. I do not like to pause the stroke but recently I have been and I think it is just because I am not sure of the shot.

I know I do not know 3c and in this statement I mixed in pocket billiards. It does seem the 3c player in general have a more upright stance. Whitey
 
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mr3cushion

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Wow (sorry, I just saw this)

First, I said "Homie" not "home boy".

Second, in that statement, I was "Homie", not calling you anything. It was just a slang statement (I thought well known from "In Living Color" fame) and a cute way to not get sucked into strange details after I tried to answer your question about naming one top pro that looks at the cue ball last. Basically saying I don't play they game and don't want to get involved in a back and forth discussion.

But, here we are, I apologise if you took it a different way.

Let me start over:

"Ralf Souquet".

Bill M, I am a person that does not live in black and white so I added "mostly, if not always" because I'm not Ralf and can't speak for him regarding "always" as a definitive. But I answered your question based on what Ralf had told me at DCC in 2004.

I apologise to everyone for derailing Bill S's very helpful thread, but that was not the intent.

I guess a simple misunderstanding like this is how many internet wars begin, I promise you this will not be one of them 😂👍. Please carry on without me or in other words...Homie (me) don't play that game. 😂🤣(joke).

Peace ❤
"You" didn't Dave, no worries!
 
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