Filler/ Chohan May 12-13th

baby huey

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Tony does not have a bad game here with Filler. Maybe this was a spread. I have not heard what the bet was? Maybe other members know? If this wasn't a spread then something else must be considered. Dr. Bill thought Tony played OK and I disagree with the esteemed Dr. Bill. I saw too many shots which were poorly executed by Tony and I can only attribute this to his lack of playing and practice, see my earlier post. If they play again, I'll take Tony even money.
 

sheldon

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I saw a comment by Roy in the chat that there was $16K in the middle.
 

jtompilot

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I saw a comment by Roy in the chat that there was $16K in the middle.
I thought it was 10 in the middle.

Maybe Tony is setting up Filler for a much bigger money match?
I do feel like Tony was a little rusty and he can definitely play better than he did.
 

Miller

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man, you guys are a tough crowd.....

chohan is an amazingly freakish talent, one of the best in the world. he lost a match to another amazingly freakish talent who by all indications was in stroke while he was not.

he's been doing it for years and will continue to do so. maybe some of the criticism is somewhat justified (he doesn't practice, didn't take time to learn the table, should've dropped the anchor, should have out-moved the kid, is out of shape, blah, blah, blah.....). i'm guessing this cat knows exactly what to - they all can't be winners when you drop the mitts with the best.....

;)
 

jtompilot

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man, you guys are a tough crowd.....

chohan is an amazingly freakish talent, one of the best in the world. he lost a match to another amazingly freakish talent who by all indications was in stroke while he was not.

he's been doing it for years and will continue to do so. maybe some of the criticism is somewhat justified (he doesn't practice, didn't take time to learn the table, should've dropped the anchor, should have out-moved the kid, is out of shape, blah, blah, blah.....). i'm guessing this cat knows exactly what to - they all can't be winners when you drop the mitts with the best.....

;)
Tough crowd for sure but I think the criticism is pretty spot on and so is your evaluation of the talent.
 

Cory in dc

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As a good (average) nine-ball player who has taken 4 years to become an average 1P player I am truly shocked by how quickly Josh Filler has learned the game. At the age of 22.

Clearly, conditions favored Josh greatly for this match (table familiarity, pocket size, confidence, being in dead punch for WEEKS leading up to the match) but he showed so much these last two days that blew my mind.

He was a long way from perfect but his kicking, moving, banking, and stack-reading was better than I realized. And I already rated those skills highly based on watching Roy’s feed every night.

I had convinced myself that he couldn’t convert what he learned in his 13-7 game with the local guy into success against a top pro because it felt like he was always free-wheeling.

Boy was I wrong.

Tony could have (and should have) done more to slow the youngster down which makes me think this might be a ploy to lure the young German into some big action in the future with the Pinoys and Tony under different conditions but, as a lover of the game who wins regardless, I’m all for it 😀
That local knows a lot and I'm sure Filler did learn some things. I also imagine the Europe+straight pool background helped prime Filler to learn quickly, especially in early to middle parts of the game.
 
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Scrzbill

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We need a rating system, I suggest Phargo being the one pocket rating system. What is Tony's Phargo rating 872? Alex 930, Busty 925, Dennis 903, Pittsburg Billy 902...........................
Observations of our chosen profession and hobby. I think Tony needs a coach. Someone he respects and someone who can reach him. I would love to see Tony be a player of stature. People have known Tony since he terrorized the Bay Area. He is very smart. His math skills are way up there. So is his addictive nature. As a friend of his from those days I can say when he snores, it shakes rooms. He has always been a good kid at heart but because of his freakish abilities in one area of life, he thinks he is accomplished in all areas of life. Thank goodness none of this pertains to any of us. If this pandemic has anything to teach us, it is life is tough, then you die. I hope he wasnt just gaslighting everyone when he talked about his weight. Staying away from our vices is tough. Food, I love it. I still have a couple addictions left after many years of not drinking and doing illegal substances. No cigarettes, coffee, meats, salt, and then there are my favorite vices, Red Bull is a known killer and my other vice, sugar. A life of expectations, vindications, celebration, and failure. A pool players dream.
 

El Chapo

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I watched a 1990 14.1 match between Ervilino and Strickland. I know it is easy to congratulate myself, but despite what the commentators were saying in the booth, I said to myself before I started waching "Strickland will probably win because he is offensive and he makes everything". He did end up winning even though Ervilino opened with a run of 80.

The first thing I said when I saw this match is Filler will win because he shoots better. Yet when you read through the comments the reasons Tony lost is all "no practice", or "big pockets". The reason he won is because he puts balls into his pocket.

I have said it so many times in here, and the commentary by Diliberto in the Ervilino match proved this point to perfection, people overrate knowledge. It totally makes sense. Do you think a guy who has studied one pocket moves for 20 years is going to be happy a guy can just up and beat him without ever playing?

Moving and knowledge are WAY overrated by pool players. Very good players seem to be the only people who understand this for the reasons discussed above. Of course it helps round out the percentages in the favor of the better mover, but what pool really comes down to is who is pocketing balls when the heat is on. And of course those reading this are not going to believe it, but that does not stop it from being the truth.

If player A thinks 2% better than player B, but player B shoots 2% better than player A, the huge advantage goes to player B, but pool players in general do not believe this.

Think of it like the 100 meter dash. The guy who can run faster is going to win. That's it. Of course it is a little more nuanced in pool, but it is basically the same thing, anyone with half a clue and decent instincts on a pool table will generally win if he is the better shooter and ball runner.
 
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Island Drive

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I watched a 1990 14.1 match between Ervilino and Strickland. I know it is easy to congratulate myself, but despite what the commentators were saying in the booth, I said to myself before I started waching "Strickland will probably win because he is offensive and he makes everything". He did end up winning even though Ervilino opened with a run of 80.

The first thing I said when I saw this match is Filler will win because he shoots better. Yet when you read through the comments the reasons Tony lost is all "no practice", or "big pockets". The reason he won is because he puts balls into his pocket.

I have said it so many times in here, and the commentary by Diliberto in the Ervilino match proved this point to perfection, people overrate knowledge. It totally makes sense. Do you think a guy who has studied one pocket moves for 20 years is going to be happy a guy can just up and beat him without ever playing?

Moving and knowledge are WAY overrated by pool players. Very good players seem to be the only people who understand this for the reasons discussed above. Of course it helps round out the percentages in the favor of the better mover, but what pool really comes down to is who is pocketing balls when the heat is on. And of course those reading this are not going to believe it, but that does not stop it from being the truth.

If player A thinks 2% better than player B, but player B shoots 2% better than player A, the huge advantage goes to player B, but pool players in general do not believe this.

Think of it like the 100 meter dash. The guy who can run faster is going to win. That's it. Of course it is a little more nuanced in pool, but it is basically the same thing, anyone with half a clue and decent instincts on a pool table will generally win if he is the better shooter and ball runner.
From what's been said. Tony has not been playing much in the past couple mths, Filler was practicing on this table for quite some time and Tony was not. The score was Not that lopsided, and I'm sure Tony learned aspects of Fillers play that can only help em match up, practice up, and get the play surface of his choice next time. From balls, to cloth, to humidity, to flooring to pocket size, there's Many factors that ''affect'' play. I think the big different is one is a true player, the other is a true Gambler/player. Yah never quite know 100% what gamblers are doing or thinking in the moment. Filler is, just the opposite.
 

gulfportdoc

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We need a rating system, I suggest Phargo being the one pocket rating system. What is Tony's Phargo rating 872? Alex 930, Busty 925, Dennis 903, Pittsburg Billy 902...........................
Observations of our chosen profession and hobby. I think Tony needs a coach. Someone he respects and someone who can reach him. I would love to see Tony be a player of stature. People have known Tony since he terrorized the Bay Area. He is very smart. His math skills are way up there. So is his addictive nature. ...
That's a good suggestion, Bill, unless Tony is already too set in his ways. Jerry Matchin or Bill Incardona would be excellent coaches for him. But probably the best time for him to be guided has passed years back. Tony is pushing 40, isn't he? That means he'll be lucky to get another 6-8 years of top play before the game starts to slip, especially given his style.

It sure is fascinating to watch him play. But how many times over the years have we seen talented players who just can't acquire all the facets of being a complete pro player? In fact it's almost the norm, not the exception. Part of it is the nature of the American play historically. In Europe and Asia players have started to become more disciplined, well coached. Therefore for them it's become more of an athletic profession rather than a seat-of-the-pants lifestyle. Guys like Joe Long and Greg Sullivan do everything they can to improve pro pool, but until big sponsorship gets interested there's not going to be much change.
 
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beatle

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people dont change. tony matches up poorly or his backers do, whatever. he also doesnt play the player. he doesnt prepare and doesnt put his all into tough games, simple as that and he isnt going to change. maybe except for an occasional time. after that just like all people, they revert back to their normal. and this is tony's normal.

when things are right and fall perfectly he will win, otherwise he is the sucker in the game and should generally be bet against.
in all single person gambling games one person is the sucker and the other is the smarter one. occasionally the sucker wins and that is what keeps them coming back for more. that's real life..
 

jrhendy

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We have seen Tony at his best and his worst. At his worst he still can be awesome, just not steady enough to take down the very best. He has been to the top of the hill and says he wants to get back there, and maybe the move to Buffalo’s will help, but is there enough desire to match the heart we know he has. I hope so and I want to see him back at the top, but the reality is if he gets there again, the action will dry up again and he will go through the same scenario all over. How many times can Tony, or anyone for that matter, do it.
 

BRLongArm

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We have seen Tony at his best and his worst. At his worst he still can be awesome, just not steady enough to take down the very best. He has been to the top of the hill and says he wants to get back there, and maybe the move to Buffalo’s will help, but is there enough desire to match the heart we know he has. I hope so and I want to see him back at the top, but the reality is if he gets there again, the action will dry up again and he will go through the same scenario all over. How many times can Tony, or anyone for that matter, do it.
I don't think Tony really has the drive to be more than he is. Money has come too easily to him and he doesn't have the hunger needed to lose weight, practice and get into winnable games. If he did all that, he would get no action and he knows that. The good news is the top players in the world are now playing one pocket regularly and that can only be a good thing.
 

Island Drive

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I don't think Tony really has the drive to be more than he is. Money has come too easily to him and he doesn't have the hunger needed to lose weight, practice and get into winnable games. If he did all that, he would get no action and he knows that. The good news is the top players in the world are now playing one pocket regularly and that can only be a good thing.
Bingo!.............if he lost 50lbs he would play better, but that would take, exercise/commitment....and Drive, where most all gambles/rounders are thinking of $$$$$$$$$$$$$. And their next trap.
 

BRLongArm

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It all goes back to the old argument about the future of one pocket. I believe for one pocket to really take off, it has to be a professional circuit with the best players in the world playing it. The gambler/hustler model died with the anonymity lost with smart phones and computers. That attitude about short cuts and easy money is holding back the sport. Nobody can really make a living hustling one pocket anymore. Tony is perhaps the last of the dying breed. Perhaps we know that and sentimentality makes us pull for the last hustler.
 

beatle

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if you think playing the best in town and moving on is hustling it isnt. its just playing the best and then killing off the easy action. the good hustler makes it in any pool room with gamblers and can last for a long time adjusting games before the money dries up.. and having his picture doesnt matter as gamblers make games and gamble.
they dont gamble with guys that run out all the time no matter what the spot is. they want to shoot often.
every action pool room has one or two that seem to win all the time and do stay in action. those are the real hustlers. most dont make much but do leave winner.
 

cincy_kid

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It all goes back to the old argument about the future of one pocket. I believe for one pocket to really take off, it has to be a professional circuit with the best players in the world playing it. The gambler/hustler model died with the anonymity lost with smart phones and computers. That attitude about short cuts and easy money is holding back the sport. Nobody can really make a living hustling one pocket anymore. Tony is perhaps the last of the dying breed. Perhaps we know that and sentimentality makes us pull for the last hustler.
100% agree with this
 

beatle

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i dont ever know of a stranger in a pool room walking in and winning decent money except off a single score that the people there didnt have their idea of how he played and been around for awhile.
i have yet to see players showing pics sent to them from another pool room outing a player that had played there.
i was in a pool room and few knew my face and a knocker told the room i was friends with cole dickson so i must be good.
i had 500 a game one pocket going a half hour later with the guy i wanted to play there. getting spotted no less.
you get games by how you set things up as long as you do it right and havent gone around beating the best players even.
 
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