Famous Pool Sharks

suki

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Like to add

Like to add

What a great article, it covered everthing.
I do however disagree with the story regarding Walter Tevis and the Hustler.
The book was written before anyone knew of Ronnie Allen. I knew Ronnie in the late fifties. He mostly played in L.A. and only came to S.F. once in awhile. One Eye Hank Hurst and I occasionally got in action with him. We played at Cochran's,(u probably just misspelled the name) Walter got his idea in Kentucky as you mentioned where he spent a lot of time. According to Mr. Tevis he never came out west.

Also like to add a monster unknown. Kenny(The Rooster) Crenshaw.
 

Island Drive

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Titanic Thompson/Quote per Evelyn Wanderone

Titanic Thompson/Quote per Evelyn Wanderone

Ty once bet a NY politician there were more blacks in the city than whites, all the while knowing he was wrong. The politician said he had proof, but Ty said lets just count how many walk by in the next fifteen minutes and he'd be satisfied, bet was on. Moments later during the count, a black funeral procession passed by.:heh
 

Cowboy Dennis

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dennis i was just going to post this link...:(
http://www.thehypertexts.com/Famous Pool Sharks.htm
you beat me to it...:frus
Dearest No Time Breath,

So let me get this straight: You think Bill Porter just happened to post that link on the All-Zaniness site and I saw it and posted it here, even though I wrote that I found it while looking for other things and he wrote that he found it on another site?

Orrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr, do you think it's more likely that I found it and posted it here and he saw it and posted it there. Then you saw it there first because your taste in pool forums is slipping:sorry and you went to post it here and found that I already had but you thought I just got it from the All-Zaniness site before you did???


Are you f@@king nuts???:):p:D

RBL
 

BillPorter

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Dearest No Time Breath,

So let me get this straight: You think Bill Porter just happened to post that link on the All-Zaniness site and I saw it and posted it here, even though I wrote that I found it while looking for other things and he wrote that he found it on another site?

Orrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr, do you think it's more likely that I found it and posted it here and he saw it and posted it there. Then you saw it there first because your taste in pool forums is slipping:sorry and you went to post it here and found that I already had but you thought I just got it from the All-Zaniness site before you did???


Are you f@@king nuts???:):p:D

RBL
I saw your post about the link and thought it was a great read. I then posted on "the other forum" and shared the link there. Congrats on a great find and thanks for posting the link!
 

lll

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Dearest No Time Breath,

So let me get this straight: You think Bill Porter just happened to post that link on the All-Zaniness site and I saw it and posted it here, even though I wrote that I found it while looking for other things and he wrote that he found it on another site?

Orrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr, do you think it's more likely that I found it and posted it here and he saw it and posted it there. Then you saw it there first because your taste in pool forums is slipping:sorry and you went to post it here and found that I already had but you thought I just got it from the All-Zaniness site before you did???


Are you f@@king nuts???:):p:D

RBL
yes to all questions........guilty as charged..............:D......:heh
 

Miller

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i like the section on nicknames.

"the ayatolla of one hola"

:)
 

Cowboy Dennis

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I saw your post about the link and thought it was a great read. I then posted on "the other forum" and shared the link there. Congrats on a great find and thanks for posting the link!
I know Bill:). I just had to yank Larry's chain a little. Thanks for posting it over there, even the Zanies appreciate a good link:p.

Dennis
 

Cowboy Dennis

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yes to all questions........guilty as charged..............:D......:heh
I knew it.:p

Actually, instead of acquiescing so easily I figured you to challenge my assertion by noting the time stamps that clearly show Bill posted on the All-Zaniness site at 1:33 p.m. and I posted it here at 3 p.m.. Then I would've had to use this post to explain to you that the All-Zaniness site is on All-Zaniness Time and as such, three hours must be added to any time stamps from there to equate with our own. Now I don't have to waste my time telling you that:D.

RBL
 

gulfportdoc

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... I do however disagree with the story regarding Walter Tevis and the Hustler. The book was written before anyone knew of Ronnie Allen. I knew Ronnie in the late fifties. He mostly played in L.A. and only came to S.F. once in awhile. One Eye Hank Hurst and I occasionally got in action with him. We played at Cochran's,(u probably just misspelled the name) Walter got his idea in Kentucky as you mentioned where he spent a lot of time. According to Mr. Tevis he never came out west. ...

You're right, Suki. Since the time that the movie of The Hustler came out, it's success attracted many guys to claim that Tevis was really writing about them. But Tevis wasn't writing about any of them. His book was written in '58/'59 while he lived in Kentucky. The book bears almost no resemblance to the movie's screenplay.

Rudolph Wanderone parlayed a lie into a pretty good score for the rest of his life. But the M. Fats character in the book was nothing like the Gleason character in the movie. Even in the movie, the Fats character was a gentleman high stakes pool gambler who was under the thumb of a mob guy; not a bit like Wanderone, who was a talented ninja-hustling blow hard.

Your point about RA being too young and too distant to have influenced Tevis is accurate. Ironically Tevis was born in San Francisco in 1928, but moved to Kentucky 11 years later, where he lived until moving to my birth town, Athens, Ohio, where he taught creative writing at Ohio University. It is possible that he witnessed Eddie Taylor prior to 1959, but he always maintained that his characters were simply figments of his imagination, and I believe him.

However the screenplay was "adapted" and written by Robert Rossen and Sydney Carroll. Rossen was a New Yorker who was an avid pool player that some described as a hustler. He most certainly knew all the players of the day, including Mosconi. It was his and Carroll's influence that made the movie into what it was. So if any of the movie's characters were even remotely modeled off real people, it was Rossen's doing-- not Tevis's.

Doc
 

petie

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You're right, Suki. Since the time that the movie of The Hustler came out, it's success attracted many guys to claim that Tevis was really writing about them. But Tevis wasn't writing about any of them. His book was written in '58/'59 while he lived in Kentucky. The book bears almost no resemblance to the movie's screenplay.

Rudolph Wanderone parlayed a lie into a pretty good score for the rest of his life. But the M. Fats character in the book was nothing like the Gleason character in the movie. Even in the movie, the Fats character was a gentleman high stakes pool gambler who was under the thumb of a mob guy; not a bit like Wanderone, who was a talented ninja-hustling blow hard.

Your point about RA being too young and too distant to have influenced Tevis is accurate. Ironically Tevis was born in San Francisco in 1928, but moved to Kentucky 11 years later, where he lived until moving to my birth town, Athens, Ohio, where he taught creative writing at Ohio University. It is possible that he witnessed Eddie Taylor prior to 1959, but he always maintained that his characters were simply figments of his imagination, and I believe him.

However the screenplay was "adapted" and written by Robert Rossen and Sydney Carroll. Rossen was a New Yorker who was an avid pool player that some described as a hustler. He most certainly knew all the players of the day, including Mosconi. It was his and Carroll's influence that made the movie into what it was. So if any of the movie's characters were even remotely modeled off real people, it was Rossen's doing-- not Tevis's.

Doc
I have heard that the Minnesota Fats of the book had a spasm or tick that made him jerk every once in a while. This was true of Fatty. In his younger days, it was quite pronounced.
 

Billy Jackets

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Tevis worked in a pool room in Athens Ohio sometime between 1945 and 1954 which is 86 miles form Marietta Ohio and half that distance from Parkersburg, both were big gambling spots back then, and never heard of Fats, that's about as likely as me writing a book about a guy named Elvis while I am working in a Las Vegas casino who yodels better than anyone, but I never heard of Elvis Presley.
I also refuse to give him even a porkchop because that's the kind of weasle I am.
 

fred bentivegna

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I have heard that the Minnesota Fats of the book had a spasm or tick that made him jerk every once in a while. This was true of Fatty. In his younger days, it was quite pronounced.
That is correct. Coincidence right? :frus However, all us Sicilians dont believe in coincidences, and I told Mr Tevis that to his face in Dayton, OH at a Joe Burns tournament. Fast Eddie was a conglomerate of players, but I will bet my bootie that Tevis was thinking of and basing his Fatty on the real Fatty.

Beard
 

gulfportdoc

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Tevis worked in a pool room in Athens Ohio sometime between 1945 and 1954 which is 86 miles form Marietta Ohio and half that distance from Parkersburg, both were big gambling spots back then, and never heard of Fats, that's about as likely as ...
Tevis lived in Lexington, KY during the time frame you mentioned, while he attained his BA and MFA at Univ. of Kentucky. He did not get to Athens, Ohio until the Spring of 1965, where he started teaching at Ohio University in the Fall of the same year. The Hustler novel was written mostly in 1958.

He had written a dozen or so short stories for magazines, one of which, "The Best in the Country" was published in Esquire magazine in 1954. There was also "The Big Hustle" published in Collier's in 1955. At the urging of his agent, he expanded "The Best in the Country" into the novel The Hustler.

There was a small 6 table room in Athens, Ohio. I visited it several times in the late 50's/early 60's. And there was a huge student rec room at O.U. which had 20-30 pool and billiard tables. My guess is that Tevis may have frequented both. As a matter of fact, since I may have run into Tevis during that era, I'm going to start telling people --even though the time frames don't quite work out-- that Tevis, Rossen, and Carroll had based one of the characters in the movie on me!:cool::rolleyes: Why not? Everyone else does....

Doc
 

Don Smith

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"Even in the movie, the Fats character was a gentleman high stakes pool gambler who was under the thumb of a mob guy"

Could someone refresh my memory about this quote? I don't remember Gleason's character being under the thumb of a mob guy.
 

Island Drive

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"Even in the movie, the Fats character was a gentleman high stakes pool gambler who was under the thumb of a mob guy"

Could someone refresh my memory about this quote? I don't remember Gleason's character being under the thumb of a mob guy.
George C. Scott is the steakhorse....I think he won Best Actor for this role.
 
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