end game again #2

lll

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the shooter hit the 6 into the 13
leaving his opponent as diagrammed
his opponent took no time to cross the 6 to his side and bring the cue ball up towards the foot rail
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Tom Wirth

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the shooter hit the 6 into the 13
leaving his opponent as diagrammed
his opponent took no time to cross the 6 to his side and bring the cue ball up towards the foot rail
View attachment 14247

View attachment 14248
We have seen in the past where hindsight has proven how the right shot can sometimes come out wrong. Well here is an example of the wrong shot coming out right. Or at least it can be said that this shot did not come out poorly.

This shooter's selection will rarely wind up as well as this. Typically a good return straight back will be the result because the hit on the second ball cannot be accurately anticipated. The bank on the six as demonstrated earlier is a far better selection in my opinion. If the shooter wishes to play safe instead, than one easy and secure way to do that would be to bank the six softly toward the other ball causing some congestion, and lay the cue ball on the foot rail. Securing the cue ball to the foot rail would be a primary goal with this shot and should be easy to accomplish for even the intermediate player.

Tom
 
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Cowboy Dennis

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the shooter hit the 6 into the 13
leaving his opponent as diagrammed
his opponent took no time to cross the 6 to his side and bring the cue ball up towards the foot rail
It looks like he was playing all cueball and didn't much worry about the object balls. He should've at least got the cueball closer to the rail since it looks like he was playing it there. Mostly good things will happen if the 6 hits the stripe but I can't believe it hit the siderail first:eek:.

Dennis
 

Tom Wirth

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It looks like he was playing all cueball and didn't much worry about the object balls. He should've at least got the cueball closer to the rail since it looks like he was playing it there. Mostly good things will happen if the 6 hits the stripe but I can't believe it hit the siderail first:eek:.

Dennis
Dennis, I'd like to know how you figure this.

Tom
 

Cowboy Dennis

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Dennis, I'd like to know how you figure this.

Tom
Tom,

I figured the 10 possible things most likely to happen if the 6 hits the stripe coming off the endrail and liked more than half of them. The worst thing that can happen is I give up a long bank on a 10' table with my opponent shooting from close to the footrail.

Dennis
 

Cowboy Dennis

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the shooter hit the 6 into the 13
leaving his opponent as diagrammed
his opponent took no time to cross the 6 to his side and bring the cue ball up towards the foot rail
I think Einstein ruled out this possibility:p.

RBL
 

Tom Wirth

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Tom,

I figured the 10 possible things most likely to happen if the 6 hits the stripe coming off the endrail and liked more than half of them. The worst thing that can happen is I give up a long bank on a 10' table with my opponent shooting from close to the footrail.

Dennis
Dennis, I don't necessarily agree with the percentages you offer but even if you are right that more than half the time you will get a good result the other half the time you will have given up that bank on the ten foot table when simply playing a safety. Why, when all balls can be totally controlled, give up anything?

As can be seen in this example, while it is true that no decent shot was sacrificed, not much was accomplished either.

Tom
 

Cowboy Dennis

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Dennis, I don't necessarily agree with the percentages you offer but even if you are right that more than half the time you will get a good result the other half the time you will have given up that bank on the ten foot table when simply playing a safety. Why, when all balls can be totally controlled, give up anything?

As can be seen in this example, while it is true that no decent shot was sacrificed, not much was accomplished either.

Tom
Tom,

I didn't say "the other half the time you will have given up that bank on the ten foot table when simply playing a safety". I said "The worst thing that can happen is I give up a long bank on a 10' table with my opponent shooting from close to the footrail".

You will not necessarily give up a bank the other 50% of the time either, other not favorable things can also occur.

You say "while it is true that no decent shot was sacrificed, not much was accomplished either." I do not agree with this either. The 6 was put out of play but only for a moment and the stripe was put where I'd like it to be if it wasn't on my side in my corner.

I'd do what I said I'd do and that's all that matters for my money. Many things can also go wrong banking the 6 cross-corner and even if I put it near my pocket my opponent will just shoot it away unless I make it.

All in all I will bide my time (play the score) and move the two balls uptable and wait for my opportunity. I'm not in a hurry to win.

Dennis
 

Tom Wirth

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Tom,

I didn't say "the other half the time you will have given up that bank on the ten foot table when simply playing a safety". I said "The worst thing that can happen is I give up a long bank on a 10' table with my opponent shooting from close to the footrail".

Dennis
Dennis, I have no wish to belabor the point here and I understand your view and appreciate your sharing it with us. My point was that there was no need to give up anything at all however low the percentages were.

You will not necessarily give up a bank the other 50% of the time either, other not favorable things can also occur.

It is hard to imagine how a safety clearing both balls up table can produce many unfavorable positions for the incoming player but okay, maybe.

You say "while it is true that no decent shot was sacrificed, not much was accomplished either." I do not agree with this either. The 6 was put out of play but only for a moment and the stripe was put where I'd like it to be if it wasn't on my side in my corner.

The stripe,imo opinion favors only the player who's side the ball is on and it is unlikely that a poor result will occur from banking the six across and toward the stripe. The momentum clearly favors this player

I'd do what I said I'd do and that's all that matters for my money. Many things can also go wrong banking the 6 cross-corner and even if I put it near my pocket my opponent will just shoot it away unless I make it.

All in all I will bide my time (play the score) and move the two balls uptable and wait for my opportunity. I'm not in a hurry to win.

Again, and you allude to my point exactly. Because you are not in a hurry to win why would you be in such a hurry to move both balls on the one shot? I can understand this thinking if the two balls are in a more threatening position but this is not the case here. I state all this not to dissuade you from what you feel is the right shot but to build a case for others to consider showing more patience in these situations. Many games have been lost by players trying to do too much too quickly when the situation did not warrant the risk.

Tom
 

Cowboy Dennis

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All in all I will bide my time (play the score) and move the two balls uptable and wait for my opportunity. I'm not in a hurry to win.

Again, and you allude to my point exactly. Because you are not in a hurry to win why would you be in such a hurry to move both balls on the one shot? I can understand this thinking if the two balls are in a more threatening position but this is not the case here. I state all this not to dissuade you from what you feel is the right shot but to build a case for others to consider showing more patience in these situations. Many games have been lost by players trying to do too much too quickly when the situation did not warrant the risk.

Tom
Tom,

I never wrote this either. I diagrammed my shot and showed what I would attempt knowing the things that could go wrong. I have no desire to "move both balls" as you say.

P.S. Didn't you recently post that you never played a match on a 10' table?

P.Ps. If you cannot accurately comprehend and respond to what I write then I ask you to stop already.

Dennis
 

Tom Wirth

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Tom,

I never wrote this either. I diagrammed my shot and showed what I would attempt knowing the things that could go wrong. I have no desire to "move both balls" as you say.

P.S. Didn't you recently post that you never played a match on a 10' table?

P.Ps. If you cannot accurately comprehend and respond to what I write then I ask you to stop already.

Dennis
Dennis, I know you didn't say you had a desire to move both balls but you have been supporting the shot up to now haven't you? As for my not having played on a ten foot table, this does not alter the facts that giving up no shot is better than potentially giving up a straight back regardless of the added distance.

But I've said my piece and please forgive me if I've gotten on one of your nerves. That was not my intention. There is nothing personal in it for me. It is always about the game for me. I do appreciate your contributing these wwyd threads. Thanks,

Tom
 

wincardona

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Dennis, I know you didn't say you had a desire to move both balls but you have been supporting the shot up to now haven't you? As for my not having played on a ten foot table, this does not alter the facts that giving up no shot is better than potentially giving up a straight back regardless of the added distance.

But I've said my piece and please forgive me if I've gotten on one of your nerves. That was not my intention. There is nothing personal in it for me. It is always about the game for me. I do appreciate your contributing these wwyd threads. Thanks,

Tom
Tom, you know as well as any good player that the shot being discussed is a very weak shot and there's not one good player that would shoot it, not one. The only shot that should be shot here is the cross bank on the 6ball, which is obviously the best choice by far. It's as natural a shot as any shot discussed and has both offense and defense value.

If there's any one who would allow me to start this position by giving me the first shot by banking the 6ball i'll play a freeze out and give them half of there money back if I should win, providing my opponent plays around my speed. Can you say that about the shot being discussed? If any one feels that way about the shot being discussed and plays around my speed they can give me a call they have action.

Dr. Bill
 

Tom Wirth

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Tom, you know as well as any good player that the shot being discussed is a very weak shot and there's not one good player that would shoot it, not one. The only shot that should be shot here is the cross bank on the 6ball, which is obviously the best choice by far. It's as natural a shot as any shot discussed and has both offense and defense value.

If there's any one who would allow me to start this position by giving me the first shot by banking the 6ball i'll play a freeze out and give them half of there money back if I should win, providing my opponent plays around my speed. Can you say that about the shot being discussed? If any one feels that way about the shot being discussed and plays around my speed they can give me a call they have action.

Dr. Bill
Agreed 100% See post #22

Tom
 

gulfportdoc

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I'm curious if the 3 of you (Tom, Bill, Rob) would shoot the 6 ball bank on a 9-footer as well? In other words, is the 6 ball bank shot your choice because it's on a 10-foot table, or do you simply favor the shot in any case?

~Doc
 

onepockethacker

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I'm curious if the 3 of you (Tom, Bill, Rob) would shoot the 6 ball bank on a 9-footer as well? In other words, is the 6 ball bank shot your choice because it's on a 10-foot table, or do you simply favor the shot in any case?

~Doc
Myself, Im shooting it on a 9 footer also... Its just an even stronger shot on a 10 footer.... Would you rather bank the 6 ball into the 13 ball and hope you dont leave something?:rolleyes: You got a good chance to win here and to leave your opponent tough in the same process... You need 1 to his 2 balls not 1 to his 4 or 5... passing up the bank on the 6 ball you are just waiting to lose... are you going to hope your opponent gift wraps and hands you the final ball? This bank is a natural bank and the cue ball is easy to get to the head rail.... If you hit the 6 ball bank so bad that your opponent can shoot at the stripe then you deserve to lose anyway.. and seeing how you deserve to lose then what the hell are you doing on the stream table?:D:D:D just kidding Doc
 

onepockethacker

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I'm curious if the 3 of you (Tom, Bill, Rob) would shoot the 6 ball bank on a 9-footer as well? In other words, is the 6 ball bank shot your choice because it's on a 10-foot table, or do you simply favor the shot in any case?

~Doc
Doc one more thing... pass up that 6 ball bank against guys like Frost, Chohan, etc... and see what happens the rest of the match... You better be wearing kevlar vests and helmet... because you will be under fire.
 

Cowboy Dennis

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Tom,

I never wrote this either. I diagrammed my shot and showed what I would attempt knowing the things that could go wrong. I have no desire to "move both balls" as you say.

P.S. Didn't you recently post that you never played a match on a 10' table?

P.Ps. If you cannot accurately comprehend and respond to what I write then I ask you to stop already.

Dennis
Dennis, I know you didn't say you had a desire to move both balls but you have been supporting the shot up to now haven't you? As for my not having played on a ten foot table, this does not alter the facts that giving up no shot is better than potentially giving up a straight back regardless of the added distance.

But I've said my piece and please forgive me if I've gotten on one of your nerves. That was not my intention. There is nothing personal in it for me. It is always about the game for me. I do appreciate your contributing these wwyd threads. Thanks,

Tom
Tom,

I think you are better off in the shallow end of the pool where your friends can wrap their arms around you and tell you that you are right, you seem to do better that way.

Apparently you are simply playing out an intellectual exercise, not ever having played a match on a 10' table and having no real experience with it.

The chat between us is over.

Dennis
 

wincardona

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I'm curious if the 3 of you (Tom, Bill, Rob) would shoot the 6 ball bank on a 9-footer as well? In other words, is the 6 ball bank shot your choice because it's on a 10-foot table, or do you simply favor the shot in any case?

~Doc
Good question Doc. This is a 5x10 with tough pockets, with that understanding one should adopt the mind set to play the game utilizing distance as an ally. In this situation the 6ball bank is a perfect shot to employ that type of strategy. I would shoot the 6ball bank on this table against the best players in the world knowing that none of them will like what I leave, none of them.

Will I do the same on a 4-1/2 by 9? Not against a top player but I would against a player that doesn't like to shoot. This move is a strong move and shouldn't be undervalued, it apply's pressure and sends a message that you're not afraid to shoot these types of shots which in turn earns you respect and that's important playing anyone.

I have played quite a bit of pool myself on a 5x10 in Detroit, and have watched some of the best 5x10 players around play the game, players like Cornbread Red, Jersey Red, and many other top 5x10 players. Playing on a 5x10 with tough pockets is an up table game, play the cue ball up table and let anyone shoot, that's the way the games played on a tough 5x10.

Dr. Bill
 
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