efren /scott again

onepockethacker

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When your playing Ray Charles by all means go ahead and play safe. 5 to 1, 6 to 1, etc.. is a nice lead against a cripple. However when your opponent in considered the best player on the planet or # 2 and you get a chance to end the game go for it. Like it has already been said if you can't make the 15 ball bank you are not going to win anyway.
 

lll

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I like this option best, particularly when top players are battling. By planning your attack using this strategy you give yourself a chance to get in the "two hole" and then play a good safety while moving balls out of play.;)

Dr. Bill
By the way 5 to 1 and 6 to 0 aren't worth shit when the balls are all by Scotts pocket Bottom line.. when you get a chance to beat a #1 or # 2 player in the world you go for it, you don't wait around for them to make mistakes.
i hate to start a mini hijack of my own thread.....:eek: but
ive seen too many top players go 8 and out to turn a game around that they should lose based on the score because of a mistake
so getting to the "two hole" may be warm and fuzzy but still doesnt guarantee the WIN
im talking ablout elite players against each other who are threats to run out when given the chance
i agree with you Dr. Bill as a general strategy but im not sure i would be advising scott or efren not to try to run out when the shot they need to do it is a high percentage shot for them ie getting below the 15.. banking it...and getting on 2 more balls for the win
all comments appreciated
jmho
icbw
 

Tom Wirth

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There are many more games lost by strong players attempting to run out those last two or three balls so as not to turn the table over to a formidable opponent then there are games lost by playing safeties with substantial leads.

Even if the bank is high percentage, the odds go way up when you have a large lead with the balls in neutral position. It is good to have the heart to shoot when you must, but it is also wise to know when to play safe when you have way the best of it.

Tom
 

lll

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There are many more games lost by strong players attempting to run out those last two or three balls so as not to turn the table over to a formidable opponent then there are games lost by playing safeties with substantial leads.

Even if the bank is high percentage, the odds go way up when you have a large lead with the balls in neutral position. It is good to have the heart to shoot when you must, but it is also wise to know when to play safe when you have way the best of it.

Tom
i was coming to edit my post to say i should not question Dr. Bills advice based on his experience compared to mine (my experience:eek:)
but since i couldnt sneak that in
his advice coming from another seasoned pro like yourself
means
i should learn to listen, absorb, and learn from those who have been there and done that many more times than me:)
 

wincardona

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When your playing Ray Charles by all means go ahead and play safe. 5 to 1, 6 to 1, etc.. is a nice lead against a cripple. However when your opponent in considered the best player on the planet or # 2 and you get a chance to end the game go for it. Like it has already been said if you can't make the 15 ball bank you are not going to win anyway.
If you're going to use that over used reasoning of...If you can't make the bank you're not going to win anyways... Then you're going to lose a lot of games that you should of won. Of course you can win games against great players by playing smart, as opposed to playing aggressively. Give me a break. Lets use this scenario.
If you were in the "two hole" shooting the 8ball, would you play the angle on the 15ball bank your way... or to cross it and make the hanging 6ball? If your answer is to play aggressively and go all out for the bank, then that's not the only question you answered for me.:sorry

Frost..Reyes...Pagulion, and any other top player are hoping you go all out in this situation. All they want from this position is a chance, why give them a golden one?

Hope to see you at the Derby.:D:D:D
Dr. Bill
 

wincardona

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Steve and Dr. Bill, I don't know what's gotten into me, but I've been mighty plain spoken of late. Senility, maybe, but I don't like your shot. Sorry 'bout that. You propose to bank the 15, knock in the 6 and float the cue ball up the rail. Will you play the 15 pocket speed and risk leaving Scott a bank, or play it with enough speed for it to clear out if (when) it misses? Any danger it might come back toward you?

My shot is to make the hanger with the cue ball and then knock the 15 toward the other balls on the long rail, leaving Scott without a shot. I'm scared to death of that guy. When I move the 15 ball, I want to know where it is gonna stop. 5-1 and safe is okay from here. If you feel aggressive you could play to bank the 15 and try to end the game right here.

Still friends? :)
Bill, my intention would be to play to get in the "two hole" that's it. I'm either going to make the 15ball bank, knock the 6ball in, and play a safety. Or i'm going to hang the 15ball bank, make the hanging 6ball, and sit down. I'm never going to scratch, or leave my opponent straight in, in any situation like this one. Unless I was dumping and that's not going to happen.

Dr. Bill
 

wincardona

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One of the toughest pills for me to swallow is when i'm leading 6 or 7 to 0 and lose the game off of a missed ball, as opposed to losing by a great shot that my opponent made. I can afford to lose games when my opponent makes a great shot and runs out. However, I can't afford to lose games when i'm leading 6 or 7 to 0 and miss a ball.:eek::sorry

Dr. Bill
 

lll

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IMO there is one of two choices here. At first I was thinking there might be enough angle to play the eight with left hand english and follow two rails for position or one of several balls straight in, in an attempt to run out. That requires getting through a lot of traffic and avoiding hitting something full in the face and coming up dry.


Tom
well efren tried to go 2 rails between the 10 and 1 ball he nudged the 10 bumped the 1 and left himself here:eek:
NOW WHAT??
es9.jpg

es10.jpg
 

Dudley

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play shape!!

play shape!!

If I was feeling comfortable with my speed and the rails I would definitely consider this...(see pic below) The bank will always be there and I want to get as many as possible in the run. I might even be able get most of em.

I would definitely not play the bank while making the ball in my opponents hole with all the other balls available. I want to run a bunch of balls if I can. I would save this shot till after the open shots are used up.

Dudley

es6.jpg
 

petie

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If I was feeling comfortable with my speed and the rails I would definitely consider this...(see pic below) The bank will always be there and I want to get as many as possible in the run. I might even be able get most of em.

I would definitely not play the bank while making the ball in my opponents hole with all the other balls available. I want to run a bunch of balls if I can. I would save this shot till after the open shots are used up.

Dudley

View attachment 7610
This is what I would do Dudly. You only need 4 and they're right in front of you from there.
 

vapros

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Larry, I'm 80% sure the 1 ball will bank now, but I'm 90% sure Efren won't shoot it - not with a 5-0 lead. He must knock in Scott's hanger and clear the 15 ball away, leaving him at 5-1, just as if he had played more conservatively. His plan was to run out, but it didn't work this time. Nothing ventured, nothing gained, as they say.
 

onepockethacker

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If you're going to use that over used reasoning of...If you can't make the bank you're not going to win anyways... Then you're going to lose a lot of games that you should of won. Of course you can win games against great players by playing smart, as opposed to playing aggressively. Give me a break. Lets use this scenario.
If you were in the "two hole" shooting the 8ball, would you play the angle on the 15ball bank your way... or to cross it and make the hanging 6ball? If your answer is to play aggressively and go all out for the bank, then that's not the only question you answered for me.:sorry

Frost..Reyes...Pagulion, and any other top player are hoping you go all out in this situation. All they want from this position is a chance, why give them a golden one?

Hope to see you at the Derby.:D:D:D
Dr. Bill
You will definitely see me at the Derby... sweetie:eek::D
 

onepockethacker

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Well Efren went for the win, he wasn't trying to get "in the 2 hole":rolleyes: Right about now Efren is wishing he would have played to bank the 15 ball.
 

tylerdurden

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Right shot Jimmy... For all those who choose not to bank the 15 ball and running out after pocketing the 8 ball.... DONT WORRY YOU GUYS WOULDN'T EVER BE IN THIS POSITION TO WIN!! Lkie Frank already said.. if you can't make that bank then you aren't going to beat him anyway By the way 5 to 1 and 6 to 0 aren't worth shit when the balls are all by Scotts pocket Bottom line.. when you get a chance to beat a #1 or # 2 player in the world you go for it, you don't wait around for them to make mistakes. That's what made Efren unbeatable and now Scott #1 everyone is scared to death of them and they shit all over themselves.. roll in the 8 ball, bank the 15 ball, run two more balls and then shake his hand and say good luck in the losers bracket!! Or play scared to death, blow the game later on, curse yourself about you should have banked the 15 ball and ran out while your looking for your name on the LEFT side of the chart!!
I really do like your one pocket thinking, and I mean that sincerely.

My thing here for all the non-shooters.... it is like saying you want to beat Hussein Bolt in a race, but you don't really feel like running fast today. It just doesn't make sense to me. It is wwyd agaist scott frost, correct, not wwyd against the local banger. That bank is such a hanger too, i mean you can get right where you want on it - i have to strongly disagree with even billy here.
 

lll

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I really do like your one pocket thinking, and I mean that sincerely.

My thing here for all the non-shooters.... it is like saying you want to beat Hussein Bolt in a race, but you don't really feel like running fast today. It just doesn't make sense to me. It is wwyd agaist scott frost, correct, not wwyd against the local banger. That bank is such a hanger too, i mean you can get right where you want on it - i have to strongly disagree with even billy here.
tyler
yes the threads are wwYOU do
so posts that say i would do this but if i had the skills of (fill in the blank) id do this are very acceptable
just like billy in particular will say this shot is easier for a lesser skilled player and this is what a pro would shoot
helps us that are not pros to understand whats available/ reasonale for our skill set yet understand if we get to pro level what would they do
 

lll

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ive been fortunate to be able over the years to play a game with an upper level player and tell them what im thinking before i shoot and they give me a few alternatives
some of them i have to discard because i dont think i could pull it off:(:eek::mad:
but its an eye opener:D
 

Tom Wirth

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I really do like your one pocket thinking, and I mean that sincerely.

My thing here for all the non-shooters.... it is like saying you want to beat Hussein Bolt in a race, but you don't really feel like running fast today. It just doesn't make sense to me. It is wwyd agaist scott frost, correct, not wwyd against the local banger. That bank is such a hanger too, i mean you can get right where you want on it - i have to strongly disagree with even billy here.
You are not only disagreeing with Billy & me on this one but you are disagreeing with Efren as well. I know you are not saying Efren is a "non-shooter". Do you think he did not consider the same shot selection you did, and passed? He could easily have gotten to that sure shot bank but elected to try something far more risk oriented as far a position goes. If you read earlier you will see I passed on the shot Efren chose for the very reason which stopped him from continuing his run. Now he has a bit of trouble to get out of and only has five balls instead of six. Even Efren can make errors in judgement.

Playing safe by banking the ball and making the six on the same shot makes the game a hanger. I don't care who I'm playing. And if you consider that bank a hanger then you should feel the same way. MHO.

Many games are won with patience over shooting. Sometimes it takes more heart to put your opponent back on the table than it does to try to run out from difficult positions. One of the key lessons to learn in One Pocket.

Tom
 

vapros

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Let's note that the layout Larry presented in the initial post is pretty much a dream opportunity for any reasonably good player. Any bold or passive sequence that you might have in mind can begin with that shot on the 8 ball. If it doesn't work out like you saw it in your mind, you can always shoot in the 6 with the 15, and pass the dice. That's the only caveat - don't shoot into a spot where you can't get to the 6 ball! I like the WWYDs that begin like this one. We get lots of creative responses, and they all work in someone's mind. Now we're playing one-pocket.
 

Cowboy Dennis

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something quick i dont expect this to go as long as the other wwyd thread
im pressed for time these days
efrens shot
I'd shoot the 8 ball and play shapes for the mickey-mouse cross-corner bank, what's to think about?

CBD
 
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