double banks

[jack]

I was playing a friend the other night who's a fairly skilled one pocket player...should have beaten Ralph Souqet recently, and only lost 5 games to bustamante (even with 13-5, bustamante was running 12/13 and out)...so I trust his opinion somewhat...
That being said, some of the shots he's told me seem somewhat counterintuitive....so, on long table double banks and short double banks, what type of hit would you give the cueball?

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He was saying to use outside english because it opens up the angle...
The thing is, if you hit with outside, it will definitely open up a little, but cut the angle down off the next rail...

So, just curious how you all would hit banks like the one diagrammed...feel free to show other shots, variations, etc...

Thanks!
Jack

 

[Pelican]

Howdy Jack,

On this bank I would use low left. This transfers as high right on the object ball.

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Kinda think of it like you are playing a two rail kick. You want to use whatever english you would need to transfer to the object ball the english you would use if you were playing the object as a two rail kick. Does this make sense? You are going to naturally lose some angle off the second rail, just have to compensate for it.

Later, Pel

 

[jack]

Howdy Jack,

On this bank I would use low left. This transfers as high right on the object ball.

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Kinda think of it like you are playing a two rail kick. You want to use whatever english you would need to transfer to the object ball the english you would use if you were playing the object as a two rail kick. Does this make sense? You are going to naturally lose some angle off the second rail, just have to compensate for it.

Later, Pel

hey Pel,

thanks for the reply...yeah, that does make sense...i guess what i've experienced in trying it is that there's so much english, that you lose so much of the angle off the second rail, it almost comes off straight...i know speed, stroke, etc, will change that, but it seemed to me that i'd almost want to bank it 5 inches away from the corner pocket so that when it came back almost straight, it was lined up...instead of the nice double angles...i think a softer hit would probably change that...

 

[Pelican]

You are really getting a pretty good idea of what is going to happen and are going to lose your english by the time you make the second rail. Naturally a softer hit will not straighten out as much but you have to consider that you are moving the object ball 2 lengths plus what ever you have from the 1st rail so we are going 20+ feet minimum. Now, I remember reading that you lose about 40% or so off each rail. So, lets work with an easy number that has nothing to do with it (gettin' real confusin now, huh). Assume the object ball leaves the cue ball at 100 fps. If it loses 40% then off the 1sr rail it is down to 60 fps. Now we have to deduct for rolling friction so lets say by the time it gets to the 2nd rail it is down to 50 fps. Now we lose another 40% so we come off it at 30 fps. Back to rolling friction so by the time we get to the desired pocket we are probably under 20 fps. Jeez, that gave me a headache. But, ya get the drift. Now on a short rail 'z' bank (as I like to call 'em) you can shoot a bit lighter as you have less distance to lose speed due to rolling friction.

These type of banks take tons of practice. Would love to get with Glen Rogers for a few hours and have him work with me on these.

Later, Pel

 

[NH Steve]

Speed is the key to those 'twice' across banks or straight back 'twice' -- too hard and you will straighten out way too much off the last cushion. Here's a nice simple one that is often overlooked...

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Or this:

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Made one of these just yesterday These wide open angles get pretty nice 'slide' off the second cushion...

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[Pelican]

I agree Steve, speed can be cut back on short way z banks and it is usually easier to figure using a lighter touch. On a long ways I like to use a good pop and let it straighten more to artifically open the pocket some by having the use of the last diamond length of the rail. I'm not very good at the diagram thingy but something like this.

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