Donn vs. Pete 2 wwyd?

OneRock

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I tried your 2 rail kick into the 2 and it is just not there. The cb will not pull back as you would like.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/uuTyY9kJpCrfB2z78 Here is your back bank on the 7 and keeping the cb on the head rail. This I believe is a very good instructional video, and of course a very good ploy in leaving a tough return opponent shot w/ your balls in front of the hole.
Whitey
Great shot. And yes, the 5 would have been next to prevent him from banking the 10.
 

vapros

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Crane kicked very well, but overall it was a bad plan, as usual. He left several banks for Danny.
 

Jeff sparks

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Thanks La
i think jeff deserves credit for the shot
onerock
he hit it with low left too!!
thanks for the recognition Larry, and I’m glad Dr. Bill likes the kick on the 2 as well... 👍
however no one seems to have pinpointed Donn’s shot as yet.... 🤔
 

jtompilot

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This is a tribute to Dr. Bill's shot selection. IMO this is the shot, hands down no contest!
https://photos.app.goo.gl/hrav3NbhQyx9Qt9x8
enjoy, and thanks Bill for this great shot selection! Whitey
Wouldn't the reply be to kick into 2 leaving both balls on the rail? Sure the 3 can be banked into the balls but who knows how it will turn out.
The hands down, no contest shot is to bank the 7, make the 3, make the 6 and have some options on the next position and just run out.
 

wincardona

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Very nice videos again Whitey. Thanks! The bank on the 7 is a wild card if missed leaves him access to clear the balls out of your hole and several shots at his hole even if they are difficult ones.
Good point, John. Banking the 7ball sending the cue ball three cushions is a game-winning shot if you make it. However, choosing this option, you will most likely give up your position if the 7ball is missed. Is it worth the gamble? There are certain conditions when this method of playing the bank is a fair trade-off, like, for instance, if the pocket size is forgiving, which then would raise your pocketing percentage high enough to make this method a very viable one. (providing the pocketing ability is relatively high)Another scenario would be if the shooter were trailing significantly, then this method would be the correct way to shoot it. Playing the bank using a center ball with left English sending the cue ball cross table offers you the luxury of playing the shot with pocket speed. This method will protect your position but lessen your chances of running out if the bank is pocketed. I like playing the bank with center-left if the score is close, which would keep you in control of the position. If you happen to make the bank, then you can bank the 5ball next and continue applying pressure.

Shot selection is not always black and white, as you can see. That's one of the many reasons that makes playing one pocket such an interesting game.


Dr. Bill
 
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cincy_kid

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That's a very strong shot kicking that 2 towards the side and burying the CB under the 11!

That would be my preferred shot if I could execute it that well (from Whitey's video).

Thanks for the eye opener on that shot Dr. Bill and for making the videos Whitey and for the WWYD's Ghost!
 

Kybanks

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Dr Bill mentioned the 2 railer on the 10 ball going 3 rails with the cb. Another option would be to cut it and use straight top english and have the cb come up his long rail. Looks like the speeds may match up.
 

Dennis "Whitey" Young

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Wouldn't the reply be to kick into 2 leaving both balls on the rail? Sure the 3 can be banked into the balls but who knows how it will turn out.
The hands down, no contest shot is to bank the 7, make the 3, make the 6 and have some options on the next position and just run out.
Yes, that is the reply to Bill's shot, you kick into the 2 or take a scratch leaving the cb on the long rail. But Bill will bury you right back in there on the foot rail by either going off the 3 or the 1. His intent is to take control of the game and keep it, playing the end game early in the game, of which you understand. Bill can elude on banking the 3 ball, but IMO he would never take this shot for it defeats his initial intent.

It is like chess, once you get the advantage then each move thereafter maintains or increases your advantage. One poor move and the game switches.
No one is saying the 7 bank is not a great shot in this scenario, and of course it is a game winner if pocketed, and hard to pass up.

I just watched a OP match between Schmidt and Feigen (DCC 2019), they both would have an advantage but failed to keep it by not locking up the cb when they could or by carelessly leaving a bank. It is 101 OP to place the cb in front of the opponent's pocket but that is not good enough if you could of just shot a little harder and locked up the cb on an ob.

This has been a great wwyd for Dr. Bill to explan the up and downs of these various scenarios. Whitey
 
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mr3cushion

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If people are thinking of banking thee 7 ball straight back and going 3 or 4 cushions to get behind the 2, Fageabut! Especially on a diamond table, going to go way too short! Even on a GC, you can not get the correct angle on the 2nd cushion to the 3r rail.

On a 'older' Brunswick table, it way have a chance.
 
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OneRock

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Who knows, maybe the shot was to 2-rail the 10 and swing the CB 3 or 4 rails behind the 2. This would eliminate the threat of banking the 10. Still, it wouldn't be among my top 3 options by any stretch.
 

One Pocket Ghost

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Playing the bank using a center ball with left English sending the cue ball cross table offers you the luxury of playing the shot with pocket speed. This method will protect your position but lessen your chances of running out if the bank is pocketed. I like playing the bank with center-left if the score is close, which would keep you in control of the position. If you happen to make the bank, then you can bank the 5ball next and continue applying pressure.

Dr. Bill
Donn chose to bank the 7, in this manner....since Pete rates as an average player (I give him 10-8) Donn was comfortable giving him the old "heart check" and letting him shoot the not free 5 or the 3 from long distance if he wants to....Donn hit the bank pretty well (very similar to the way that Whitey hit it in his posted video), missing it by an inch or two.....here's how it ended up >>>

; 016.jpg
 

catkins

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The main reason I did not want to shoot the 7 is that I did not feel i would have an improved position if I made the ball or missed it if that makes sense I kinda feel that this shot does make your opponent react to you but I also think that there where better positions to be had. If it was resonably easy to play three rail position off the 7 ball bank I think it was a very strong shot
 

baby huey

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There is another option which I didn't see anyone discuss. Banking the seven two rails to your hole and laying the cueball on the end rail could be a nice shot. If you hit it long you have lots of good things happening by moving balls closer to your hole. That six ball looms large if struck by an object coming in that direction.
 

crabbcatjohn

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This is why i disagreed earlier with the bank that was described and played here by Don. He's in a lot of trouble here and lost his position if not the game.
 

Dennis "Whitey" Young

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Who knows, maybe the shot was to 2-rail the 10 and swing the CB 3 or 4 rails behind the 2. This would eliminate the threat of banking the 10. Still, it wouldn't be among my top 3 options by any stretch.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/HzkbCKfXrDjUsha6A I just cleaned the balls a day prior to this, so as you can see the cb grabs and hugs the head rail slightly and enough to slow it down. I worked this shot over quite well and could not come up with a solution for getting the cb away from the head rail properly to get 3 rails back up table. Maybe a tad below center with extreme right hand spin will allow the cb to speed up and get free of the head rail. Since mr3cushion has joined in on this thread, and is of course a master of this then maybe he can add his expertise for I have not found the answer. It just might not be possible without hitting the shot harder than the pocket speed.
Whitey
PS. I was able to obtain more cb speed with using just a tip below center with extreme right hand spin. The spin gave it the speed. But, still this shot is just not there. I was unable to get under the 7 which is a line between the 7 and 5.
 
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Dennis "Whitey" Young

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Donn chose to bank the 7, in this manner....since Pete rates as an average player (I give him 10-8) Donn was comfortable giving him the old "heart check" and letting him shoot the not free 5 or the 3 from long distance if he wants to....Donn hit the bank pretty well (very similar to the way that Whitey hit it in his posted video), missing it by an inch or two.....here's how it ended up >>>

View attachment 432179
I finally did a shot that the player did, and I am probably 1 for 12 on that one. He hit it the right way by letting the cb go to the head rail.
But, what is the best way to reply. Of course the reply is to take out the 6/7 unless you are a stone ass shooter.

I am cross banking the 7 to my hole with power to catch the 14/2 combo and make the 2 ball in my hole. I think this is possible for the cb will go into the 6 and then curl back around the 7.
Join the madness! Whitey
PS. I'll probably have to eat my words, for I have not tried it.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/9ynTrK8tGp7fxSbB6 Sure enough I could not hit the shot as I wanted. I am not sure if I have the 7 or the 6 set up quite right for I might have the 6 a little far off the rail which allows the scratch. It sure looks possible in the photo, and it probably is not the high on the cb. Whitey
 
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Dennis "Whitey" Young

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https://photos.app.goo.gl/dsB59tUm3MBcCLwV9 I revisited this shot and I got a little excited for I thought the cb stopped right there because of the high english, but I see it went back and forth between the points. Well I enjoyed bringing this to you guys.
In viewing the video it appears I have the 7 sitting a little to high up on the long rail. This could change the response of the balls. Whitey

https://photos.app.goo.gl/juJzcuFtqzP1creJA
Whitey
 
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crabbcatjohn

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I finally did a shot that the player did, and I am probably 1 for 12 on that one. He hit it the right way by letting the cb go to the head rail.
But, what is the best way to reply. Of course the reply is to take out the 6/7 unless you are a stone ass shooter.

I am cross banking the 7 to my hole with power to catch the 14/2 combo and make the 2 ball in my hole. I think this is possible for the cb will go into the 6 and then curl back around the 7.
Join the madness! Whitey
PS. I'll probably have to eat my words, for I have not tried it.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/9ynTrK8tGp7fxSbB6 Sure enough I could not hit the shot as I wanted. I am not sure if I have the 7 or the 6 set up quite right for I might have the 6 a little far off the rail which allows the scratch. It sure looks possible in the photo, and it probably is not the high on the cb. Whitey
Make his 7 and put him behind the 6. Even if you don't get him behind the 6 but hide him from the three he's in trouble.
I
 
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