Donn vs. John 12 - end game situation - wwyd?

TxOnePocket

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Seems this game has lots of moving left to do, no clear advantage either way and one solid shot can change the entire landscape. Why not shoot the obvious shot, Bank the 7 ball straight back at pocket speed getting it somewhere near ur pocket, but most importantly strike the 7 ball cleanly because we are flirting with a much easier game ball for our opponent if the cue ball fades right after contact. Otherwise he should clear the ball you just put by ur hole giving you an opportunity to rearrange the furniture even more afterwards. If he shoots at his hole he better make it or come damn close because if he doesn't you've got 2 easy balls to tie up the game.Untitled.png
 

Kybanks

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Seems this game has lots of moving left to do, no clear advantage either way and one solid shot can change the entire landscape. Why not shoot the obvious shot, Bank the 7 ball straight back at pocket speed getting it somewhere near ur pocket, but most importantly strike the 7 ball cleanly because we are flirting with a much easier game ball for our opponent if the cue ball fades right after contact. Otherwise he should clear the ball you just put by ur hole giving you an opportunity to rearrange the furniture even more afterwards. If he shoots at his hole he better make it or come damn close because if he doesn't you've got 2 easy balls to tie up the game.View attachment 432230
My thoughts exactly! Glad you dont mind typing!
 

Jeff sparks

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I'm not going to panic here and try one of those two banks available. Both have loss written over them. I'm banking the ten ball over to his side of the table and taking the cue ball one rail over to my side of the table by my pocket trying not to leave him a three rail bank on it. Hit it fairly well and you take away the one rail bank on the seven.
Welcome back...The calm voice of sanity...
 

cincy_kid

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I first considered coming off the 10 as well, but I didn't want to have all 3 balls on my opponents side while at the same time giving them a free shot at either a 3 railer or 1 rail long on any one of the 3 balls (depending on how they lay after the shot). I still think I like coming off the 14, that way it only leaves the 7 which may be on a scratch if he tries to 1 rail it. Just my 2 cents..
 

Dennis "Whitey" Young

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Why bank the 7 and hold up the cb. It does not make sense! So you are playing for 1 when you need 3 with a complete sell out.
You have 3 banks staring you in the face, which one gets you all 3?
If you are going offense then go, otherwise banking the 7, just lost you the game! Whitey
 

Island Drive

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My thoughts exactly! Glad you dont mind typing!
I don't like putting all the balls on opponents side, plus to get the cue ball up/down, you might make the ten ball cross corner. The shot lays such, that to miss the ten banking off the long rail, the ten wants to go.
 

OneRock

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Speed and touch are key here. Focus on driving the 7 to the top rail. It's basically a straight-rail carom shot.
 

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OneRock

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I guess if I must get aggressive here and give myself a chance to win the game, I'd two-rail the 14 and play shape on the 10-ball straight-back.
 

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cincy_kid

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the carom into the 14, if you hit it too thin or thick you leave a straight in shot on the 14
 

Kybanks

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I don't like putting all the balls on opponents side, plus to get the cue ball up/down, you might make the ten ball cross corner. The shot lays such, that to miss the ten banking off the long rail, the ten wants to go.
You sure you meant to quote my response? Lol. I'm swinging at the 7 ball bank. It's time to apply some pressure. I'm not seeing any shot that puts in a better position.
 

wincardona

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Damn...I just gotta say that we've got some guys on here who are freakin' stealth bomber-deadly with their mouse...don't even matter if they hafta load up with english from dead offa the rail neither...

I don't think even Skylar or Billy Thorpe could hang with them in mouse-banking o_O

- Gh:LOL:st

P.S. And here's a pic of the mouse that I have a hunch certain guys on this site enthusiastically use ;) >>>


View attachment 432222
Lol. Very entertaining and accurate.
Dr. Bill
 

wincardona

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If I'm feeling good about the table, I might bank the 14 with enough right that I can leave the cue ball on the cushion, like this:

View attachment 432221
If I can leave the 14 within a diamond of my pocket and him more or less straight in from the rail, he's got a chance to make a mistake. If the 14 goes in, I have a shot on the 10.

It's also possible to bank any of the three balls hard enough to get the cue ball back below the side pockets, but I'd rather play the slow shot.
Bob, the angle doesn't match up with the speed needed to get the results you posted. Your cue ball is too fast to control it to the top rail while positioning the 14ball near your pocket. Imo.

Dr. Bill
 

wincardona

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You sure you meant to quote my response? Lol. I'm swinging at the 7 ball bank. It's time to apply some pressure. I'm not seeing any shot that puts in a better position.
Can't argue with your choice other than it's a very demanding option, in terms of ball striking accuracy. Considering the degree of difficulty with any of the offensive options leads me to believe that playing consevatively with a safety very well could be the best solution to this frustrating situation.

“Patience is the calm acceptance that things can happen in a different order than the one you have in mind.” — David G. Allen

Dr. Bill
 

wincardona

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I guess if I must get aggressive here and give myself a chance to win the game, I'd two-rail the 14 and play shape on the 10-ball straight-back.
I looked at this option and concluded that the degree of difficulty is too high and the shot Imo is too risky. The speed needed to control the cue ball to where you diagrammed it demands an accurate hit with the ob. If the hit sends the ob to the side rail, top rail, and then to your side rail, if missed, the 14ball could very easily end up straight in for your opponent. The speed needed to safety up the cue ball will put the ob in danger if the shot is missed.

I like your safety playing the carom off the 7ball into the 14ball. Either that option or Frank The Barber's option with crossing the 10ball to get away from the position and deal with it from square one.


Dr. Bill
 

beatle

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first off giving him next shot with three balls up table puts you in that 7 to 1 dog range.
where if you bank a ball to your hole if you make it you fall into the 2 to 1 range with the next shot or better.
and if you hang it he likely wont shoot a long shot for his hole anyway so you dont really sell out and if he does so what, as if he misses you can become the favorite or close to it.
 

Bob Jewett

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Seems this game has lots of moving left to do, no clear advantage either way and one solid shot can change the entire landscape. Why not shoot the obvious shot, Bank the 7 ball straight back at pocket speed getting it somewhere near ur pocket, but most importantly strike the 7 ball cleanly because we are flirting with a much easier game ball for our opponent if the cue ball fades right after contact. Otherwise he should clear the ball you just put by ur hole giving you an opportunity to rearrange the furniture even more afterwards. If he shoots at his hole he better make it or come damn close because if he doesn't you've got 2 easy balls to tie up the game.View attachment 432230
There is a very nice rule of thumb for long banks that applies to this diagram. If an object ball is even with the side pockets and you bank it back to your pocket just reaching the pocket, the cue ball will travel forward a very predictable distance. That distance is four diamonds, so the cue ball will be left on the end rail.

It is clear that there must be some magic position for the object ball on a straight long bank for which the speed that barely pockets the object ball leaves the cue ball frozen on the head rail with a rolling cue ball. If the OB is close to the head rail, the CB will bounce off. If the OB is on the foot spot, for example, the CB will not reach the end rail at pocket speed. For many tables, the magic distance is right between the side pockets. If a table has boingy cushions, the location is closer to the head rail. If the cushion is dead, the location is closer to the head rail.

That a long way of saying that the cue ball will end a lot closer to the end rail than shown.
 

baby huey

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It looks like the fourteen ball two rails with pace to your pocket might be the shot here. It is actually a little easier to hit with the frozen cueball because you can cue a little better and drive it to your hole and escape this trap.
 

Dennis "Whitey" Young

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Remember the opponent only needs 1 ball, and that is why, among other reasons, Frank is playing the 10 to the other side clogging up the banking lanes while bringing the cb back to the foot rail area. Whitey
 

One Pocket Ghost

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Damn...I just gotta say that we've got some guys on here who are freakin' stealth bomber-deadly with their mouse...don't even matter if they hafta load up with english from dead offa the rail neither...

I don't think even Skylar or Billy Thorpe could hang with them in mouse-banking ;)

- Gh::LOL::st


Lol. Very entertaining and accurate.

Dr. Bill
Yeah Billy, maybe we can do some partner's prop-betting here 🤑

This could be my opportunity to get some of my buddy Kyb's cash...o_O...

Any of you mouse-bankers have action with me...you can shoot any of the banks, and I'll play a safety, and we'll take turns playing out games :)

And btw, in my nsho, the best choice here is pretty much a pick-it between Frank's safety, and Crabman's safety (which didn't get mentioned as it should have)...

...and there are two reasons why John's safety of shooting the 7 forward is superior to the safety of coming off the 7 into/towards the 14:

#1. With distance and having to shoot off the rail making speed control and accuracy problematic, there's more margin for error, and much less chance of selling out a shot with John's shot/John's cueball trajectory...as opposed to the proposed shot of having the cueball head into the 14, or towards the 14ball area.

#2. John's shot leaves the 10 and 7 both clear for banking straight back, or cutting in...while conversely, in cutting the 7 to the left, you may very well harm your position by having the 7 end up, doubling up the 10/blocking each others banking lanes.

- Ghost
 
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