Do you see what I see?

androd

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First great player I was around said "Your first sight is your best site, like shooting a shotgun"
 

sunnyone

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Do You Hear What I Hear?

Do You Hear What I Hear?

What I hear is Vapros asking, “… what does Efren see that I don’t see? As his numero uno fan …”

Excuse me? Okay, I totally grok that the pool world adores Efren. But numero uno fan?

Now Efren has been my sweet babboo since I first stumbled across this sport. But I can understand the OP’s confusion — it’s a hard-knock life being a Virginia male prostitute.

Sunny
 

wgcp

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Sunnyone

Sunnyone

Finally a post again...take a little hiatus from the pool world...

B
 

vapros

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Sunny, your word has driven me to Google, where I learned that it is 'used mainly by the geek subculture.' Now I know something else about you.

And I am known today, up north in Virginia, as the gigolo emeritus. Most in the trade just sort of fade away by my age and become nobodies - nonpersons. It was a near thing.
 

NH Steve

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Honestly one of my biggest weaknesses in pool has always been simply pocketing the damn ball lol. So I 100% sympathize!! And of course it is why I only want to play pool games where I am at least a little less likely to be punished with a near miss -- like One Pocket (sometimes lol). If I play a game like 9-ball, it is only to practice pocketing, stroking and moving the cue ball.

I got new glasses right to my prescription a few months ago (as opposed to the generic cheap sort you can buy anywhere), and I can see better with them, but they are taking some getting used to, despite the balls being obviously clearer. It turns out that the angle of my head toward the shot slightly distorts the perception of where the ball (or pocket??) is, because if I am looking at an angle through my glasses, it shifts the sight line perception sightly. I'm hoping that just becomes a natural adjustment in time -- so it is simply my reality.

They are bifocals too, and I got the hard line type because the progressives that I tried nearly made me seasick. But now I'm thinking maybe I judged too quickly, because I'm wondering if with progressives more of my cue stick might stay somewhat in focus, and I'm wondering if that would help me get lined up on my shots better.

The problem is with being a lifetime part-time pool player like me, without the greatest gift in eye-hand coordination, no matter whatever technical improvements, aiming and/or stroke epiphanies, I am just not ever going to develop the drilled in habits developed over a million shots. It's always going to be that search for the holy grail that is going to jump up my consistency -- only to wake up the next morning and it was just another damn dream :frus

Anyway, the beautiful thing is that since I discovered One Pocket about 30 years ago, I can enjoy the journey itself much more -- imperfections and all :D:D
 

darmoose

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Steve,

I too first tried progressive lenses and they made me seasick and dizzy.:frus I remember first trying to play golf with my new glasses. It felt like I was always walking downhill, and when I tried to hit the little ball I whiffed over the top of it (like it was a downhill lie right on the tee box).:eek: I took em back and got the plain lenses and continued with the separate reading glasses for a while.

But then I grew unhappy with that arrangement, and tried the progressives again, and this time I adjusted and they worked out fine.:)

I too was drawn to OP because I got tired of hanging 9 balls in the hole and losing.:frus I soon realized that in OP close counts, and that was great.:D

Fighting the glasses and "visions" keeps me from pocketing balls like I wanna also, and it ain't never gonna change,:( thus....."Shootin@urholeisOVERATED". It's the best I can do.:sorry

Maybe we can commiserate some in Philly while playing a little OP trying to get em close.:heh:heh
 

oldschool1478

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I struggled for years to find a progressive lens that would allow me to see clearly both near and far when down in the shooting position.
I explained to the eye doc's what I wanted and they got close a couple times, but never really clear.
Finally, about five years ago I heard about these "Peak HD Advanced" lenses. They aren't cheap, but worth every dime.
I had them mounted in a pair of "Persol" model 3091-V frames that are a large round shape with the temples mounted about halfway
down the sides, allowing my pupils to be centered in the lens.
With this combination, I can clearly focus on both the cue ball and object ball at opposite ends of the table, with my chin on the cue!

http://summitoptical.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/Peak-Summit-HD-Advanced-leaflet-2014.pdf

http://www.eyewearorders.com/prod.asp?PrdID=135227&txtBrandingID=266&txtCodeColor=&cboCategory=2
 

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cincy_kid

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my knowledge and moves definitely surpass my ball making ability so again, probably not the best one to comment on this but I will at least throw something out there that may help, in some way.

The way I first learned to aim was like most. Go behind the OB, and draw a straight line into the pocket you are trying to make it in. See where on the OB you need to hit to make that straight line, then go back to the CB and try to hit that point on the OB. Obviously you have to compensate for natural english throwing the ball but that comes with experience as we all know.

Fast forward many years later when I first started playing Virtual Pool 4, a game you can play on your PC that is very true to life on every aspect of billiards. Since i didn't want to press all the keys that enables you to move around the table and view different angles of the balls, I changed to a new way of aiming and it carried over to my real game and it's still how I aim today.

The first thing i do is look at the OB and where it needs to go and get an approximate angle in my head. Then I get behind the CB and I aim at the OB "straight on" - like I am trying to hit it full in the face in a straight line. From that point I move a little left or a little right. The more extreme cut, the further I have to move over. For slight cuts, you don't move at all. I do this for banks, cuts, everything.

The only exception for me is if it's an extreme cut, I do the opposite. I start aiming at the very edge of the ball and then just come in a little bit depending on how steep the cut is.

It may seem like it's not as dependable but for me, when i have some practice in, and am in stroke, I can make them pretty well...

One caveat and something I think is very important no matter what method you use to aim is "adjusting". if I am finding myself over cutting every shot, i start to purposely undercut my shots and vice versa. Some days you see them better than other days and you have to compensate for that.

Hope that made sense and I apologize if someone else already mentioned it, i only skimmed most of the posts in the thread.

Good topic though Bill!
 

Jeff sparks

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Bill, I believe that the great ball pocketers DO NOT use any aiming system. First they are gifted, they have wonderful strokes that allow them to deliver the cueball exactly where they are aiming. Add to that they have played and practiced hitting/pocketing balls over and over again the point that their sub conscience mind knows exactly where to aim. You don't think these great players are thinking what the angle a shot is and then calculate where their cue tip edge should be aimed? No way, they feel the shot without thinking where they should be aiming they just know where they should aim and that perfect stroke delivers the cueball to the spot that make the ball.


Now Im not saying that systems don't work, Im just saying the greats don't use them. Keith
^^^^^^^^This pretty much sums it up for me... For the truly gifted, I would say that you could chalk it up to natural ability and countless hours at the table, shooting every shot imaginable 1000’s of times, until they see the “hit” automatically and when they set their bridge hand on the cloth, they know instinctively if it’s in the right spot... I believe this is why you see some of the great players raise up their bridge hand and reset it, because they know it’s not right... Something else you will see if you look closely is some of the greats do a little dance with the fingers of their bridge hand... I believe this finger tweaking movement is the final adjustment to get the “feel” exactly right to pocket the shot... I also believe this is a subconscious movement, prompted by countless hours of rehearsal with the shot they are faced with...
 

Tom Wirth

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Bill, I don't know that I can ad anything of value to what already has been said here. Thank you for asking for my opinion though.
Just this; Most shots I just "see" the hit point on the ball. This is far easier to do if I've been playing consistently day in and day out for several days several hours each day. I rarely do that anymore and as a result I have many near misses. That's when I must resort to sectional aiming on shots which I fail to recognize the precise hit point. Unfortunately that system is somewhat flawed in my case.

There is nothing like having a straight stroke and playing hours upon hours of pool every day if you wish to pocket balls consistently. I know of no better way.

BTW. I remember Grady saying he had a few shots that he consistently missed a certain way. He would make a conscious effort to adjust his aim to compensate for the tendency. I've used that technique here and there and though it's not ideal it improved my percentages on those particular shots.

This probably didn't help but it is the way I see it.

Tom
 

NH Steve

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Bill, I don't know that I can ad anything of value to what already has been said here. Thank you for asking for my opinion though.
Just this; Most shots I just "see" the hit point on the ball. This is far easier to do if I've been playing consistently day in and day out for several days several hours each day. I rarely do that anymore and as a result I have many near misses. That's when I must resort to sectional aiming on shots which I fail to recognize the precise hit point. Unfortunately that system is somewhat flawed in my case.

There is nothing like having a straight stroke and playing hours upon hours of pool every day if you wish to pocket balls consistently. I know of no better way.

BTW. I remember Grady saying he had a few shots that he consistently missed a certain way. He would make a conscious effort to adjust his aim to compensate for the tendency. I've used that technique here and there and though it's not ideal it improved my percentages on those particular shots.

This probably didn't help but it is the way I see it.

Tom
Whenever I notice that I am consistently missing a shot, I *start* to feel like there is hope for that shot, because I assume it is something I can figure out and correct. But damn, figuring out what is wrong can be impossible!!

Right now for example, if I have an object ball close to the rail and I want to draw or stun the cue ball -- so I have to jack up significantly -- from the right side of the table (say between around the side pocket and up to the head-string on that side of the table), cutting a ball to my left into the lower left corner pocket diagonally opposite, I friggin overcut that shot every damn time, and no matter what I try I cannot seem to get a grip on it lol.

Is it the tilt of my head looking through my glasses? Is it that my arm leans and throws off my stroke? Is it that I am inadvertently using english that is throwing the ball (some extra throw because of the jacked-up hit)? Or a combination of these???? Who the heck knows. Maybe if I had a good instructor watch me they would see something.... In the meantime I dread those shots lol
 

vapros

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Well, I saw my eye doctor today and and Monday morning I will see the cornea guy and presumably I will have a cornea transplant soon after. So, I may not miss any more shots for a while. Wearing an eye patch now, like a pirate. Sort of a relief, in a way. At least something is happening. :cool:
 

12squared

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Well, I saw my eye doctor today and and Monday morning I will see the cornea guy and presumably I will have a cornea transplant soon after. So, I may not miss any more shots for a while. Wearing an eye patch now, like a pirate. Sort of a relief, in a way. At least something is happening. :cool:
Best of luck with your procedure. :)
 

rnewkirk

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Bill, Here's hoping your cornea transplant is a huge success.

Kudos to your literary talent. I really enjoy your journal entries.

Would really like to see all of you at Buffalo's, but cannot make it.:frus
 

lll

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hope your procedure goes smoothly bill and your vision is like a 20 year old...:)
 

vapros

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Cornea transplant next Tuesday, on the 28th. I told the doctor that if they did not have a cadaver-donor I could put him in touch with a guy who could arrange for one. He said they might have one in the fridge.
 

baby huey

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I never was a good ball striker but I know one when I see one. The best ball strikers IMO have the best alignment. Their foot work and body alignment is perfect. In fact all the Striking The Ball Games be it baseball, golf, ping pong and etc. require good footwork and alignment. The first time I saw Keith play it was his alignment that amazed me. He is the only person I know who could play so well and one stroke the cueball. Sure he knew where to hit the object ball but that wouldn't happen if the rest of his body wasn't ready as well. Good thread.
 

vapros

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When I started this thread more than six weeks ago, I was trying to discover what Efren Reyes could see that I could not. Got a bunch of good responses, too, but no real revelation. Accidentally I found a brief essay, by an instructor whose name I can't remember, on the many magic qualities of the half-ball hit, the thirty-degree cut shot. Following up, I found that many of the recognized experts on the sport had similar good things to say about it. It can be seen as the starting point for just about all aiming systems, such as the well-known CTE program. Unless your cut shot is very thin or very thick, it is very close. To the half-ball hit. It offers the only absolute bullseye on the table, the edge of the object ball, and a guaranteed way to make a spot shot from the kitchen with ball in hand.

But there is a lump in this gravy. To avail yourself of this great shot you must learn to recognize it when you see it. Otherwise, how to make the required adjustments? Easier said than done. I can see the edge of the object ball just fine, but that's not nearly enough. The last post in my thread was by Jerry Matchin, who recommends good footwork and body alignment to those who want to be shooters. There's something I can work on, and perhaps find a bit of improvement more easily than through increased cognizance.

Getting back to Efren, however, I'm pretty sure the thirty degree cut shot is not his secret, although it may be a subconscious part of it. The answer was there all along - I just tried to maneuver around it. What he sees that I do not is The Shot. I look for it, but he sees it and that's the end of that. It is what it is.
 

sheldon

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What most people don't realize, is that the subconscious is 100 times better at things than your conscious mind is. Natural talent can also make a difference, but if you don't train the subconscious, and let it do what it know how to do, you'll struggle forever.
Aiming systems have just a couple of good things going for them. One: they can get you close to where you need to be if you don't know the shot. Two: they distract the conscious mind, and let the subconscious do what it's supposed to.
 

LSJohn

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Cornea transplant next Tuesday, on the 28th. I told the doctor that if they did not have a cadaver-donor I could put him in touch with a guy who could arrange for one. He said they might have one in the fridge.
Oh, Sorry, Bill. I didn't see this earlier.

I appreciate you trying to hustle up some work for me, but I spent the whole month looking for my ex-wife's killer.
 
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