Dippy, Alex, and Vegas...

Artie Bodendorfer

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wincardona said:
Alex runs balls very well, and I feel that he made a very nice run running 10 balls, yes he could of run a couple more if he would of played flawless but he did well. I disagree about playing position for the 15 ball when he played for the 7 ball, playing position for the 15 ball puts a lot more pressure on him than playing for the 7 ball, and your options are more and easier playing for the 7 ball. Plus like The Ghost said that by playing for the 7 ball you clear balls from your opponents side of the table and that's always a plus for openers.

Billy I.
I agree Alex played the shots te way I would have played them. And like I said before I didnt no the score. And if the score was ten to nothing Alex Thier was nothing wrong with playing to bank the 3 ball. It just looked bad because he should have went further up the table and we still would have had a bank. But he stoped short and that stoped him from continuing his run. Because if he had any knid off decent angle to bank the three ball and made it he could have banked the eight ball next. And if he banks the eight ball he would have had position on the 15 ball or a bank on the rwo ball. and he could have made all 15 balls and he would have still been shooting. But it looked different. Because he was way short on his position on the bank. And Alex is defanatly a instinckt player. And when I said he could have banked the three ball he laid perfect thats why I said it and if e missed all he would have left is a bank and maybe the 8 ball. But If he banks the 3 ball at that time. He would have made 3 or 4 more balls for sure. And after the 15 ball he would have had a bank on the two ball with all free shots. And If he spots up the balls and the two ball is in the pocket or near his pocket. He is in super position. Because Dave would make his ball in his pocket. And all Alex would have have too done was shoot the ball in the pocket. Down the other end of the table. And Dave would have been on Defense. And in a Tough position. But I guess nobody Like the shot I picked to bank the three ball and stay on the rail behind the ball. But thats ok. And Alex run the balls very good. And he should have looked at the angle he needed to have a good angle on the 3 ball bank. But he never looked he just got down and shot and guessed at the angle. And if he would have figured it out and over played the angle he would have been ok. And we could have continued his run with another bank or two and then shot the 15 ball if he didnt get a real good angle. But he would have had a choice the two ball or te 15 ball. And if he made tem he could ave made the ball in the corner pocketand left him on his side of the table in the corner pocket. Witch is a tough spot to be in. But thats why when you play you have to bear down and keep on putting pressure on your opponent. And it samed like he let up a little to relax after he shot the 3 ball. And didnt get te angle he should have had.But thats why its hard to beat the best players. They dont give you does chances. And by banking the 3 ball he would have keepte the preasure on his opponent. Instead of being able to relax were the balls were.But e ran the balls good especialy after the 7 ball. Playing one pocket you always play to make all the easy shots because its better to get 4 or 5 balls than playing a harder shot were you might run one or two balls more. Its bad percentages. And he shoots real good. And Like I said he can improve his game wit learning. to think better and to learn the game better. Because he has all the tools to beat anyone. And once he learns what to do and how to think. He might be the best player. But untill he learns what he needs to learn. He will not be number one. But he has the tools to be number one. All he has to do is learn moore. And I dont mean learning from the wrong people. And a great player can see for himself what someone ie telling him is correct or not. And he will see by the resulte what it does. And if I would watch him play 4 or 5 sessions. And tell him what he needs to learn and change. I belive his game could improve by one or two balls. Playing one pocket. And it is easier to teach a player with a lot off ability. And he will listen because thats wat he needs to learn to be te best. And without it he cannot do that.
 

NH Steve

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Here's an edit of Artie's post #37:

Here's an edit of Artie's post #37:

I am going to explain Mistake Free one pocket now. This is the perfect time to bring it up because people might never get another chance to hear how it is played. I have never in life seen anyone play it. But playing mistake free one pocket is the highest level you can play the game. If a player can play that way HE CAN WIN AT ANY GAME NO MATTER WHO HE PLAYS or what the spot is. He can even have way the worst of the game and still win.

If he plays that way and he plays the whole game without a mistake, and knows what he is doing, the person he is playing should not make one ball. His opponent will be on defense every shot and he will not even have no give-up shots to shoot at. He knows on every shot what he is doing and what his opponent will do and will have to shoot. But nobody in life has ever played that way or understood what I am saying. But that is real one pocket. And that is a goal that people should have, to try to play at the highest level you can play.

Every shot is figured out and calculated ahead of time. Even before he makes his first ball he figures out the whole pattern and the angles of every shot that he has to have to play position. Playing the correct shots and the correct angles is a big part of playing mistake free one pocket. If there are no more balls to run you have to figure out ahead of time what shot you will shoot to keep your opponent on defense so he has to play safe. You keep him locked up the whole game where he can't do anything. Playing this way is very hard and puts a lot of strain on your mind because of all the thinking you will have to do.

It's not just getting up there and shooting. You know exactly on every shot what you are doing. There is no guessing or accidents. You might think the only way a player can do that is to run out.

Will it will take a long time to learn to play this way? Like I said, if a player can learn to play that way then he will be the best player in the world because nobody can win against a player who can do that. But I have never seen any one come close to playing that way. I can prove that your opponent will not make a ball if you can play that way.

Even the greatest players won't be able to make one ball. Because they will never have a shot or bank or even a kick shot to shoot at. And if you never have a shot, how is he going to make a ball. And if Alex could play that way he would win . He would not even have to play every game mistake free one pocket. He could make mistakes and still win. But he would have to know how to play that way. And play close to playing every game without a mistake. That is impossible unless you know how to do that. And what happenss in his game now is he gives his opponent shots and chances to win. And that is what he has to change.

And he will be able to win. Nobody knows what I am talking about and nobody has ever seen anyone play that way. But it is the highest level of one pocket there is and you play the whole game without a mistake. I have only played twice that way. And I only played it playing 5 ahead. Because it takes 100% concentration. And if you play that way. Nobody will want to play you. And you have to be in top stroke so you can execute and put the cue ball were you want it to be. Putting the cue ball and the object balls were you want them to be is a must. Why your opponent will not be able to make a ball is because you control the whole game from the first shot to the last shot.

You play the whole game without a mistake, or giving your opponent a shot. And nobody can win playing a player who can do that. I brought this up because I thought this was the perfect time. And I would show what one pocket is really all about. Playing the whole game mistake free. Your opponent will not make a ball. And that's the style you have to play to win at a game like Alex is playing. And if he could do that he would win. But if he just plays his style and plays good and cuts down on his mistakes he could probably still win. Because of the sessions he has played already he does have a chance to win. And what they are doing is what one pocket is about. There is lots of excitement and it's a very interesting match. Both players are playing hard to win. But if Alex knew how to play mistake free one pocket he would be the favorite because of the way he would be playing the game. With his great ability that would be almost impossible to beat unless he made a bunch of mistakes.

I have played games mistake free, but I have never played a whole session that way. And its the greatest feeling in the world. And the whole game is you. You are playing against the game not your opponent. And it does not matter who your opponent is because you are playing against the game. And when I play now I cannot play that way any more because I make too many mistakes and miss too many easy shots. And I have no more cue ball control. And if you don't have control of the cue ball then you will not be able to play this way. But you can always try and learn.

This was a good time to bring this up to show people how the game can be beat. And I have spent a life time figuring out how to win at certain games. And you cannot win by just playing and guessing. Having lots of heart is great. But that does not make you win. It helps giving you courage and it takes fear out of the picture. But I don't know if that is a good thing in gambling. Too much heart can make a bad game for yourself. And you need the odds and percentages to win. Luck is only good for a short period and then it will go against you, and nobody can control luck. But this was a good time to bring up mistake free one pocket at it's highest level. And how the game can be beat. I hope that some people will be able too see what I am saying.

I know players like Varner, Grady, Freddy, Gabe Owens, and Scott can go into the game deep enough to understand this. And knowing one pocket already will make this easier for you. Because you will understand what I am saying. This is what one pocket is, and should be. I hope Steve likes it. And it works.

AB
 

frmn

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wincardona, what do you mean when you say "alex is a better pool player,he shoots better and handles the cue ball better than frost". i would think maybe alex may have an edge when coming with a long tough shot but iam not sure about the better cueball. when it comes to cue containment frost showed a great ability to deny champion banker john brumback a good look at any bank. they played each other the last 2 years at hte dcc on the tv table.each match went hill hill and the players split wins. i am just looking for some example of how you see their difference. thanks in advance.
 

wincardona

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frmn said:
wincardona, what do you mean when you say "alex is a better pool player,he shoots better and handles the cue ball better than frost". i would think maybe alex may have an edge when coming with a long tough shot but iam not sure about the better cueball. when it comes to cue containment frost showed a great ability to deny champion banker john brumback a good look at any bank. they played each other the last 2 years at hte dcc on the tv table.each match went hill hill and the players split wins. i am just looking for some example of how you see their difference. thanks in advance.
There's no arguing the point that Frost isn't a great player, he clearly is. Scott plays one pocket as good or better than anyone today, he's got my vote. Scott is a top shot maker with excellent cue ball controll, especially running balls, he excells in his ability to perform his agressive style of play. A very confident player that has great instincts in playing one pocket.

Alex is a great shot maker with with a cue ball that has a masters degree, he stands up to pressure better than any one, and has an excellent understanding of all rotation games, plus a good understanding of the game of one pocket. I would bet on him against any one playing one pocket, with the exception of Frost. It's a very close game.

The 3 best one pocket players today are Frost.. Reyes.. and ..Alex. Let them fight it out for the top spot.

Billy I.
 

Artie Bodendorfer

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wincardona said:
There's no arguing the point that Frost isn't a great player, he clearly is. Scott plays one pocket as good or better than anyone today, he's got my vote. Scott is a top shot maker with excellent cue ball controll, especially running balls, he excells in his ability to perform his agressive style of play. A very confident player that has great instincts in playing one pocket.

Alex is a great shot maker with with a cue ball that has a masters degree, he stands up to pressure better than any one, and has an excellent understanding of all rotation games, plus a good understanding of the game of one pocket. I would bet on him against any one playing one pocket, with the exception of Frost. It's a very close game.

The 3 best one pocket players today are Frost.. Reyes.. and ..Alex. Let them fight it out for the top spot.

Billy I.
What I would say that Alex is mor acurate in shooting long shots. And he does have a little better cue ball control. But Scott shots better one pocket moves and plays better one pocket position. Just like people would think that a champion straight pool player would run the balls better playing one pocket. But thats not true. And for my choice for playing the best position and control would be Corry Duel and Eferine. And I was real surprised how great corry duel plays position. And we no thier are lots off great position players.Like Shann Bowen Thustan Homend Mikon Immonon Johnny Archer and meny other great players. Because a player has better cue ball control does not mean that he playes better one pocket position. Niether player has any weaknesses. Excepte maybe Alex with his moves. And thats the only thing that I see that stops Guistamontie from being in the top 6 players.But as far as talent they are all very gifted. To be the best one pocket player you have too be polised. And that is what Alex needs he has all the other tools. Pluss like Billy said lots of heart. And that would be very hard to compaire playing one pocket between Scott and Alex. Sometimes showeing too much heart can make you loose. And thier are players that are fearless. Heart does not make you win. But it does help.
 

Artie Bodendorfer

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NH Steve said:
I am going to explain Mistake Free one pocket now. This is the perfect time to bring it up because people might never get another chance to hear how it is played. I have never in life seen anyone play it. But playing mistake free one pocket is the highest level you can play the game. If a player can play that way HE CAN WIN AT ANY GAME NO MATTER WHO HE PLAYS or what the spot is. He can even have way the worst of the game and still win.

If he plays that way and he plays the whole game without a mistake, and knows what he is doing, the person he is playing should not make one ball. His opponent will be on defense every shot and he will not even have no give-up shots to shoot at. He knows on every shot what he is doing and what his opponent will do and will have to shoot. But nobody in life has ever played that way or understood what I am saying. But that is real one pocket. And that is a goal that people should have, to try to play at the highest level you can play.

Every shot is figured out and calculated ahead of time. Even before he makes his first ball he figures out the whole pattern and the angles of every shot that he has to have to play position. Playing the correct shots and the correct angles is a big part of playing mistake free one pocket. If there are no more balls to run you have to figure out ahead of time what shot you will shoot to keep your opponent on defense so he has to play safe. You keep him locked up the whole game where he can't do anything. Playing this way is very hard and puts a lot of strain on your mind because of all the thinking you will have to do.

It's not just getting up there and shooting. You know exactly on every shot what you are doing. There is no guessing or accidents. You might think the only way a player can do that is to run out.

Will it will take a long time to learn to play this way? Like I said, if a player can learn to play that way then he will be the best player in the world because nobody can win against a player who can do that. But I have never seen any one come close to playing that way. I can prove that your opponent will not make a ball if you can play that way.

Even the greatest players won't be able to make one ball. Because they will never have a shot or bank or even a kick shot to shoot at. And if you never have a shot, how is he going to make a ball. And if Alex could play that way he would win . He would not even have to play every game mistake free one pocket. He could make mistakes and still win. But he would have to know how to play that way. And play close to playing every game without a mistake. That is impossible unless you know how to do that. And what happenss in his game now is he gives his opponent shots and chances to win. And that is what he has to change.

And he will be able to win. Nobody knows what I am talking about and nobody has ever seen anyone play that way. But it is the highest level of one pocket there is and you play the whole game without a mistake. I have only played twice that way. And I only played it playing 5 ahead. Because it takes 100% concentration. And if you play that way. Nobody will want to play you. And you have to be in top stroke so you can execute and put the cue ball were you want it to be. Putting the cue ball and the object balls were you want them to be is a must. Why your opponent will not be able to make a ball is because you control the whole game from the first shot to the last shot.

You play the whole game without a mistake, or giving your opponent a shot. And nobody can win playing a player who can do that. I brought this up because I thought this was the perfect time. And I would show what one pocket is really all about. Playing the whole game mistake free. Your opponent will not make a ball. And that's the style you have to play to win at a game like Alex is playing. And if he could do that he would win. But if he just plays his style and plays good and cuts down on his mistakes he could probably still win. Because of the sessions he has played already he does have a chance to win. And what they are doing is what one pocket is about. There is lots of excitement and it's a very interesting match. Both players are playing hard to win. But if Alex knew how to play mistake free one pocket he would be the favorite because of the way he would be playing the game. With his great ability that would be almost impossible to beat unless he made a bunch of mistakes.

I have played games mistake free, but I have never played a whole session that way. And its the greatest feeling in the world. And the whole game is you. You are playing against the game not your opponent. And it does not matter who your opponent is because you are playing against the game. And when I play now I cannot play that way any more because I make too many mistakes and miss too many easy shots. And I have no more cue ball control. And if you don't have control of the cue ball then you will not be able to play this way. But you can always try and learn.

This was a good time to bring this up to show people how the game can be beat. And I have spent a life time figuring out how to win at certain games. And you cannot win by just playing and guessing. Having lots of heart is great. But that does not make you win. It helps giving you courage and it takes fear out of the picture. But I don't know if that is a good thing in gambling. Too much heart can make a bad game for yourself. And you need the odds and percentages to win. Luck is only good for a short period and then it will go against you, and nobody can control luck. But this was a good time to bring up mistake free one pocket at it's highest level. And how the game can be beat. I hope that some people will be able too see what I am saying.

I know players like Varner, Grady, Freddy, Gabe Owens, and Scott can go into the game deep enough to understand this. And knowing one pocket already will make this easier for you. Because you will understand what I am saying. This is what one pocket is, and should be. I hope Steve likes it. And it works.

AB
Thanks Steve for your good work and time and effort. And I no I wont be looking to have a spelling or Paragrapy contest with you. Because thier is no spot big enough for me too win. And you can do this with any off my posts you like. with your help I wont go down as the worst speller ever on one pocket . org. But then Again we are all on the same team. And we all want good resultes. Thats the bottom line. And when you help people it showes.
 

frmn

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i am not trying to argue scott's rank. iam asking to see if you can qualify or quantify with some example why you intuitively feel like "alex is a better pool player and has a better cue ball". then we, the mediocrities of the world can gain insight into the champion's skill set and attempt to add it to ours.one of my favorite sayings is talent recognizes genius, mediocrity recognizes nothing but itself. i humbly strive to have talent.thanx
 

gulfportdoc

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frmn said:
i am not trying to argue scott's rank. iam asking to see if you can qualify or quantify with some example why you intuitively feel like "alex is a better pool player and has a better cue ball". then we, the mediocrities of the world can gain insight into the champion's skill set and attempt to add it to ours.one of my favorite sayings is talent recognizes genius, mediocrity recognizes nothing but itself. i humbly strive to have talent.thanx
Keep after Billy, frmn. He's slick. Don't let him wiggle out of it!;)

Doc
 

One Pocket Ghost

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wincardona said:
The 3 best one pocket players today are Frost.. Reyes.. and ..Alex. Let them fight it out for the top spot.

Billy I.

Billy...you don't put Gabe in with those three?...

Each of them may do something better then Gabe...but actually, I think Gabe could be the most level headed and 'well-rounded' out of the four of them.

- Ghost
 

SJDinPHX

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Ghosty, I must say this, about that...(respectfully of course)

Ghosty, I must say this, about that...(respectfully of course)

One Pocket Ghost said:
Billy...you don't put Gabe in with those three?...

Each of them may do something better then Gabe...but actually, I think Gabe could be the most level headed and 'well-rounded' out of the four of them.

- Ghost
Although somewhat past my better playing days, I have played both Scott and Gabe several times...This is certainly not their fault, as I was around 40, before either one of them were born..:p
While Gabe is certainly a top quality 1P player, my observation is, he is still a notch below the other three aforementioned players, in most departments, (except maybe for moving skills)...He also lacks that big intangable..."killer instinct"...which the other 3 have in spades !!!

Side note ;...For those of you who don't know who "frmn" is, I am not at liberty to blow his cover...But let me just say, he could be the most "player knowledgeable" and savvy guys, when it comes to rating players, I've ever known...anywhere.

He is also one of the better players himself, in the big batch of good, solid players we have here in the desert. It was pretty well accepted that I gave the game of one pocket a pretty good shot in the arm, when I moved to Phx. 40 some years ago...Golf and 9 ball were about all they played here, until then.... Obviously, it got another huge boost when Frost settled here, some 25-30 years later.

But "frmn' was one of the first, (of a bunch of guys) to fall in love with the game, and he and a few others kept promoting the game, when I took my hiatus... Which was very gratifying to see.......Thanks Mr. Frmn !.;)
 
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One Pocket Ghost

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SJDinPHX said:
Although somewhat past my better playing days, I have played both Scott and Gabe several times. Certainly not their fault, as I was around 40, before either one was born.:p... While Gabe is certainly a top quality 1P player, my observation is, he is still a notch below the other three aforementioned players, in most departments, (except maybe for moving skills)...He also lacks that big intangable..."killer instinct"...which the other 3 have in spades !!!

Papie....I would probably agree with you that Scott would be the favorite playing Gabe...but I think that Gabe playing Alex or Efren, could very well be a 'pick-it' game.

- Ghosty
 

SJDinPHX

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One Pocket Ghost said:
Papie....I would probably agree with you that Scott would be the favorite playing Gabe...but I think that Gabe playing Alex or Efren, could very well be a 'pick-it' game.

- Ghosty
Differing viewpoints, apparently...I think Scott could give Gabe, a full ball, (possibly more) at this point in time...I doubt he would attempt that, with Effy or Alex..:rolleyes:

PS..The Galveston "exhibition" they put on a few years ago,...was a well known fiasco...:eek:
 
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One Pocket Ghost

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One Pocket Ghost said:
Papie....I would probably agree with you that Scott would be the favorite playing Gabe...but I think that Gabe playing Alex or Efren, could very well be a 'pick-it' game.

- Ghosty

...also, I forgot to say...don't forget Gabe won the DCC One Pocket in 2008, beating Alex in the semi-final...

...and by now he has 2 more years of seasoning.
 

wincardona

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SJDinPHX said:
Although somewhat past my better playing days, I have played both Scott and Gabe several times...This is certainly not their fault, as I was around 40, before either one of them were born..:p
While Gabe is certainly a top quality 1P player, my observation is, he is still a notch below the other three aforementioned players, in most departments, (except maybe for moving skills)...He also lacks that big intangable..."killer instinct"...which the other 3 have in spades !!!

Side note ;...For those of you who don't know who "frmn" is, I am not at liberty to blow his cover...But let me just say, he could be the most "player knowledgeable" and savvy guys, when it comes to rating players, I've ever known...anywhere.

He is also one of the better players himself, in the big batch of good, solid players we have here in the desert. It was pretty well accepted that I gave the game of one pocket a pretty good shot in the arm, when I moved to Phx. 40 some years ago...Golf and 9 ball were about all they played here, until then.... Obviously, it got another huge boost when Frost settled here, some 25-30 years later.

But "frmn' was one of the first, (of a bunch of guys) to fall in love with the game, and he and a few others kept promoting the game, when I took my hiatus... Which was very gratifying to see.......Thanks Mr. Frmn !.;)
So, could frmn be oldschool?:D
 

demonrho

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Whatever his skills, Dippy took the 10 ahead down today 'cause that's what Dippy do these days.
 

wincardona

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Gabe is an excellent one pocket player, who moves (for his style) as good as anyone. Where he falls behind both Reyes and Alex is his shot isn't as strong, and he doesn't have the win in him that Alex has. Alex right now is the strongest player playing all games. I would bet on Alex playing anyone 9 ball and one pocket. The reason I picked those two games is because that's where all the gambling is being done. The reason I didn't include Reyes in having the win in him, is because of his age. Reyes has to get up for a match to excell, he then has a lot of win in him when he really wants to play. Winning has a lot to do with energy, and Reyes being much older than the other 3 players puts him at a disadvantage in that area. I really believe that if Reyes was prepared to play, he's still the best player, but not on a day to day basis.

Frost, Owens, and Alex are easier to compare. Frost's strength is his understanding of the agressive style he has, and the confidence that he has in himself. He also is an excellent ball runner, but so are the other 2 players, with Gabe falling a little short in that area, but not by much. Gabe play's a more conservative game, and very rarely gives games away. He's as solid with his style as the other two are with theirs, but not as productive. He doesn't instill fear in opponents as much as Frost or Alex, so he's not as intimidating. And that should not be undervalued. Alex runs balls as good as anyone, and he has no give up in him, period. He shoots straighter and plays the cue ball better then Frost and Owens and he's tougher to beat, imo.

I put Frost a hair ahead of Alex, but that could change if Alex continues to play one pocket regularly. I put Alex a hair in front of Owens.

If Frost gave Alex 9 to 8 I would bet on Alex.
If Alex gave Gabe 9 to 8 I would bet on Alex, but I wouldn't be in love.
If Frost gave Gabe 8 to 7 I would watch.
If any of them want to give me 10 to 5 i'm coming out of semi retirement.

Billy I.
 

SJDinPHX

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wincardona said:
So, could frmn be oldschool?:D
Not a chance Bill...I doubt he has ever been to Chicago...He is getting ready to retire soon, after 30 some years with the..blank..blank..here in Phoenix...;)

He's just a working stiiff, who plays more pool than most non-working pool players....!
 
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blackeee

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frmn said:
i am not trying to argue scott's rank. iam asking to see if you can qualify or quantify with some example why you intuitively feel like "alex is a better pool player and has a better cue ball". then we, the mediocrities of the world can gain insight into the champion's skill set and attempt to add it to ours.one of my favorite sayings is talent recognizes genius, mediocrity recognizes nothing but itself. i humbly strive to have talent.thanx

I never thought I had any talent but by you definition I must have,;)
 

Weatherman

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How I would bet if Billy gets 10-5

How I would bet if Billy gets 10-5

If Frost gave Alex 9 to 8 I would bet on Alex.
If Alex gave Gabe 9 to 8 I would bet on Alex, but I wouldn't be in love.
If Frost gave Gabe 8 to 7 I would watch.
If any of them want to give me 10 to 5 i'm coming out of semi retirement.

Billy I.[/QUOTE]

Billy gets 10-5

Billy V Alex. I'm betting on Alex.
Billy V Frost. They'd play to a draw...I'll take the juice.
Billy V Owen. I like Billy..a lot.

Go Get'em Tiger!
 

gulfportdoc

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As much as I hate to interrupt the thread hijack, did Pete and Alex actually complete their final set, or did they pro-rate? Last I could tell from Sunnyday's comments was that Pete had been up either +8 or +9, then they quit for the night. The next word was that Pete "split town".

Also, does anyone know exactly how much Pete came out ahead? If there were 4 sets, I gather Pete scored as follows: #1-won 20K, #2-lost 40K, #3 won 40K, and #4-won 40K? So, if that's true, he ended up 60K ahead.

It's interesting that the perception of Pete went from being a slime ball when he played Frost, to being a decent guy when he played Alex.:rolleyes: I still suspect the former.

Doc
 
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