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vapros

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Yes, indeed. A local doctor, speaking during an update from the governor, said that daily he treats patients in the hospital who still don't believe that Coronavirus is real.
 

one pocket guy

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Dec 8, 2012
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I’ll admit that I up until recently would argue that it’s a hoax. There I said it
but in my defense Covid was nowhere in this area. Absolutely none!
i know of 10 family and friends that have it and are recovering. No deaths even nursing homes.
THATS 10 SINCE MARCH
So I’ve a new outlook. I’m still not hiding under the bed though like some might want.
~T
 

lfigueroa

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A quarter of a million dead in this country.

Hospitals/ICU's at max and first reponders working to the point of exhaustion. IMO, that qualifies as an "emergency" which gives state authorities exceptional powers to respond in the interests of the health and well being of their citizens. It is certainly not "business as usual" and much of the previous was brought on by allowing people to "make their own decisions."

What is so hard about that to understand?

oh, and your citation, from Bulgaria no less, lol, is ca-ca: https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/zero-hedge/

Lou Figueroa
I shutter to my bones to say this but I agree with Lou. Hospitals are overrun, quarter of a million dead. I will listen to my wife who works as a manager for the 85 bed unit of our local hospital. She says it is real. Like it was said on Seinfeld one time, there are real and they are spectacular. Doc, there are certain aspects to some pool shots that don’t change no matter what your feelings about them may be. It is the same thing with this pandemic. Don’t be part of the group looking for conspiracy theories, you are WAY TO SMART for it. Your progressive friend, Kentucky.

lol, hope it was THAT painful.

Lou Figueroa
 

lfigueroa

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Joined
Jul 17, 2004
Messages
1,886
I’ll admit that I up until recently would argue that it’s a hoax. There I said it
but in my defense Covid was nowhere in this area. Absolutely none!
i know of 10 family and friends that have it and are recovering. No deaths even nursing homes.
THATS 10 SINCE MARCH
So I’ve a new outlook. I’m still not hiding under the bed though like some might want.
~T

Youre a good dude and it’d be a shame to lose you.

So don’t hide under your bed. Just wear a mask when you go out be sure to stay socially distant.

Lou Figueroa
 

Miller

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Aug 18, 2010
Messages
4,460
last week alone, i handled two covid-19 fatalities in long term care facilities - one in Dietary and a CNA.

there isn't a medium - large workplace it hasn't affected and I know of three manufacturing plants and another nursing home that have very serious issues.

i'm dreading Monday morning to see what comes in next - we're just getting started in southern Illinois.

it's as real as real can be and impacting real peoples lives.
 

gulfportdoc

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Jun 25, 2004
Messages
10,294
A quarter of a million dead in this country.

Hospitals/ICU's at max and first reponders working to the point of exhaustion. IMO, that qualifies as an "emergency" which gives state authorities exceptional powers to respond in the interests of the health and well being of their citizens. It is certainly not "business as usual" and much of the previous was brought on by allowing people to "make their own decisions."

What is so hard about that to understand?

oh, and your citation, from Bulgaria no less, lol, is ca-ca: https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/zero-hedge/

Lou Figueroa
My original point was that I doubt that the Governor of Indiana individually has the constitutional authority to shut down commerce in the state, or to lock down their citizenry, if it is similar to most other state's constitutions. However their legislature may have that power. If I get the time, I'll look it up.

As regards the article stating the virologist Dr. Hodgkinson's opinions regarding face masks and social distancing, I don't know if you're saying that it is either: faked, unscientific, lies, or that you just don't choose to believe his views. In my opinion his scientific views are interesting, and have the patina of the truth. Hodgkinson's bona fides are unassailable. The story itself was originally featured on YouTube.

Mediabiasfactcheck.com is not a reliable service. It has been described in a Wikipedia article thusly: The Columbia Journalism Review describes Media Bias/Fact Check as an amateur attempt at categorizing media bias and [Dave]Van Zandt as an "armchair media analyst." The Poynter Institute notes, "Media Bias/Fact Check is a widely cited source for news stories and even studies about misinformation, despite the fact that its method is in no way scientific." Alexandra Kitty, in a 2018 book on journalism, described MBFC as an apparent "amateur/civic outfit" and wrote that its founder's only qualification was a degree in communications.
ClimateChangeDispatch.com states: That scoundrels like Mr. Van Zandt get much traction with his bogus ‘fact-checking’ website is a testimony for the need for more diligence and push back from honest scientists, other journalists, and citizens sickened by endless scientific fraud and misinformation.
~Doc
 

lfigueroa

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Messages
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My original point was that I doubt that the Governor of Indiana individually has the constitutional authority to shut down commerce in the state, or to lock down their citizenry, if it is similar to most other state's constitutions. However their legislature may have that power. If I get the time, I'll look it up.

As regards the article stating the virologist Dr. Hodgkinson's opinions regarding face masks and social distancing, I don't know if you're saying that it is either: faked, unscientific, lies, or that you just don't choose to believe his views. In my opinion his scientific views are interesting, and have the patina of the truth. Hodgkinson's bona fides are unassailable. The story itself was originally featured on YouTube.

Mediabiasfactcheck.com is not a reliable service. It has been described in a Wikipedia article thusly: The Columbia Journalism Review describes Media Bias/Fact Check as an amateur attempt at categorizing media bias and [Dave]Van Zandt as an "armchair media analyst." The Poynter Institute notes, "Media Bias/Fact Check is a widely cited source for news stories and even studies about misinformation, despite the fact that its method is in no way scientific." Alexandra Kitty, in a 2018 book on journalism, described MBFC as an apparent "amateur/civic outfit" and wrote that its founder's only qualification was a degree in communications.
ClimateChangeDispatch.com states: That scoundrels like Mr. Van Zandt get much traction with his bogus ‘fact-checking’ website is a testimony for the need for more diligence and push back from honest scientists, other journalists, and citizens sickened by endless scientific fraud and misinformation.
~Doc

er, I acknowledged your original point saying that under emergency statutes, state authorities have broad powers to act for the safety and in the interests of their citizens and courts in numerous states have already ruled to uphold closures and mask mandates.

Funny you mention the “unassailable” nature of Dr. Hodgkinson’s bona fides because, guess what, The Royal College of Canada just assailed them: http://newsroom.royalcollege.ca/clarification-on-statements-made-regarding-covid-19-by-dr-roger-hodkinson/ AND directly contradicted his opinion on masks. Which, by the way, goes contrary to the opinion of virtually every reputable infectious disease expert and immunologist in the world. (And telling us that his story was featured on YouTube does not enhance your effort to inflate his credibility.)

Lastly, regardless of anyone’s opinion of mediabiasfactcheck.com you nonetheless cited ZeroHedge. IOWs, you had to go to Bulgaria to find an extremist outlet that broadcast Dr. Hodgkinson’s off-the-wall opinion. You seem to find Wiki credible, so here’s what that site had to say about your source: “…Zero Hedge expanded into non-financial analysis,[c] including conspiracy theories and fringe rhetoric[26] that has been associated with the US radical right[13][27] and a pro-Russian bias.”

So I ask again: what is so hard to understand about all this?

The virus threat is real and continues to grow exponentially; masks, social distancing, and other health protocols work; state authorities have emergency powers, that have been upheld by their various courts, to order closures and the wearing of masks to attempt to mitigate infections and illness.

Lou Figueroa
 
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gulfportdoc

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Jun 25, 2004
Messages
10,294
er, I acknowledged your original point saying that under emergency statutes, state authorities have broad powers to act for the safety and in the interests of their citizens and courts in numerous states have already ruled to uphold closures and mask mandates.

Funny you mention the “unassailable” nature of Dr. Hodgkinson’s bona fides because, guess what, The Royal College of Canada just assailed them: http://newsroom.royalcollege.ca/clarification-on-statements-made-regarding-covid-19-by-dr-roger-hodkinson/ AND directly contradicted his opinion on masks. Which, by the way, goes contrary to the opinion of virtually every reputable infectious disease expert and immunologist in the world. (And telling us that his story was featured on YouTube does not enhance your effort to inflate his credibility.)

Lastly, regardless of anyone’s opinion of mediabiasfactcheck.com you nonetheless cited ZeroHedge. IOWs, you had to go to Bulgaria to find an extremist outlet that broadcast Dr. Hodgkinson’s off-the-wall opinion. You seem to find Wiki credible, so here’s what that site had to say about your source: “…Zero Hedge expanded into non-financial analysis,[c] including conspiracy theories and fringe rhetoric[26] that has been associated with the US radical right[13][27] and a pro-Russian bias.”

So I ask again: what is so hard to understand about all this?

The virus threat is real and continues to grow exponentially; masks, social distancing, and other health protocols work; state authorities have emergency powers, that have been upheld by their various courts, to order closures and the wearing of masks to attempt to mitigate infections and illness.

Lou Figueroa
Lou, lose the smug condescending tone. We’re friends, remember? You’re trying to shoot the messenger by denigrating ZeroHedge and the Canadian pathologist/biotech CEO. I’ve seen a bunch of similar opinions from pathologists in England and the U.S., who risk their jobs to tell the truth as they know it. Even the World Health Organization has admitted that social distancing does not work. But Big Media will not cover those stories because it doesn’t fit the current narrative.

If you really believe that covid “continues to grow exponentially”, then the draconian compelling of masks, social distancing, shutting down commerce, throwing people out of work, ruining some lives, and causing misery and financial ruin for many-- none of these have worked.

In my view the most at risk (elderly with 2 or more co-morbities) should have been warned and advised to quarantine and protect themselves. The rest of the population should have been left alone. The only sure way to get rid of covid was through herd immunity, just like they successfully achieved in Sweden.

WebMd explains herd immunity:
Herd immunity, or community immunity, is when a large part of the population of an area is immune to a specific disease. If enough people are resistant to the cause of a disease, such as a virus or bacteria, it has nowhere to go.

While not every single individual may be immune, the group as a whole has protection. This is because there are fewer high-risk people overall. The infection rates drop, and the disease peters out.

Herd immunity protects at-risk populations. These include babies and those whose immune systems are weak and can’t get resistance on their own.
[later they define necessary exposure rates of 50-67% of a population-- not referring to those who have become sick, but those who show presence of the virus in their systems-- what the media refers to as “cases”.]

If the U.S. had pursued this path, we may have achieved herd immunity by now. Instead the virus will likely live on until enough people have been exposed in order to neuter it. The lock downs and all the rest are simply prolonging the misery.

I’ve seen these types of discussions go on for days, but I don’t enjoy participating in them. I’ve stated my views, and that’s it for me.

~Doc
 

OldSchool

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lfigueroa

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Messages
1,886
Lou, lose the smug condescending tone. We’re friends, remember? You’re trying to shoot the messenger by denigrating ZeroHedge and the Canadian pathologist/biotech CEO. I’ve seen a bunch of similar opinions from pathologists in England and the U.S., who risk their jobs to tell the truth as they know it. Even the World Health Organization has admitted that social distancing does not work. But Big Media will not cover those stories because it doesn’t fit the current narrative.

If you really believe that covid “continues to grow exponentially”, then the draconian compelling of masks, social distancing, shutting down commerce, throwing people out of work, ruining some lives, and causing misery and financial ruin for many-- none of these have worked.

In my view the most at risk (elderly with 2 or more co-morbities) should have been warned and advised to quarantine and protect themselves. The rest of the population should have been left alone. The only sure way to get rid of covid was through herd immunity, just like they successfully achieved in Sweden.

WebMd explains herd immunity:
Herd immunity, or community immunity, is when a large part of the population of an area is immune to a specific disease. If enough people are resistant to the cause of a disease, such as a virus or bacteria, it has nowhere to go.

While not every single individual may be immune, the group as a whole has protection. This is because there are fewer high-risk people overall. The infection rates drop, and the disease peters out.

Herd immunity protects at-risk populations. These include babies and those whose immune systems are weak and can’t get resistance on their own.
[later they define necessary exposure rates of 50-67% of a population-- not referring to those who have become sick, but those who show presence of the virus in their systems-- what the media refers to as “cases”.]

If the U.S. had pursued this path, we may have achieved herd immunity by now. Instead the virus will likely live on until enough people have been exposed in order to neuter it. The lock downs and all the rest are simply prolonging the misery.

I’ve seen these types of discussions go on for days, but I don’t enjoy participating in them. I’ve stated my views, and that’s it for me.

~Doc

Doc, I’m sorry if I’m coming across as condescending but your position makes little sense and I address it given that perspective.

You introduced ZeroHedge into the discussion and they are a far-right outlier. You say you’ve seen a bunch of other evidence to support your position — what are they? Cite them and we’ll go through them one-by-one. You can exclude "Big Media" but by the same token, keep out the bozos.

AND the reason measures have not worked to date is because too many people have not followed the recommended protocols. (How’s it looking right about now for SD? Can you say Sturgis?)

And Sweden?! Really, Doc?! https://www.politico.eu/article/discontent-rises-in-sweden-as-coronavirus-cases-spike/ Yeah, they’re doing just duckie with their “herd immunity” lol. You like Wiki. Here you go, from just a few minutes ago.

Lou Figueroa

Screen Shot 2020-11-22 at 6.13.01 PM.png
 

baby huey

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Joined
Oct 29, 2008
Messages
1,574
We lost a lot of valuable time early on with the outbreak. No one really knew what to do, what treatments worked and how to keep the population safe. Masks work, masks don't work and social distancing measures were hard to implement and police. Even now we have a large segment of the population that are antivaxers so even if and when a viable vaccine comes out and is available we may not be able to vaccinate the population. Dr. Fauchi is no Dr. Jonas Salk in terms of credibility; actually we don't have a credible doctor who the population can turn to for reliable information and coherent game plan. So, IMO this will be a long dark winter and spring as President Elect Biden has put it and more suffering, death and econimic turmoil will continue.
 

Scrzbill

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Feb 8, 2011
Messages
3,888
We are doing herd immunity thanks to the super spreader events like Sturgis, governors ignoring science, anti American rallies for Trump, BLM demonstrations. The thing is out of control in AMERICA thanks to fweedom of idiots to infect others. America has the highest level of infection combine with the highest mortality rate. It’s not true that you have to listen to American news. I watch BBC, AlJezzera all the time. The one place I refuse to watch or read? Any Murdock TV or print.
 

lfigueroa

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Messages
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We lost a lot of valuable time early on with the outbreak. No one really knew what to do, what treatments worked and how to keep the population safe. Masks work, masks don't work and social distancing measures were hard to implement and police. Even now we have a large segment of the population that are antivaxers so even if and when a viable vaccine comes out and is available we may not be able to vaccinate the population. Dr. Fauchi is no Dr. Jonas Salk in terms of credibility; actually we don't have a credible doctor who the population can turn to for reliable information and coherent game plan. So, IMO this will be a long dark winter and spring as President Elect Biden has put it and more suffering, death and econimic turmoil will continue.

It’s called the “fog of war.”

At the outset of an onslaught, which this pandemic is, strategies and tactics will evolve and even reverse. Regardless, in this case, experts figured out pretty fast that masks work -- there's no excuse now but hard cases still refuse to respect their fellow citizens. It's a 24 hour constant news cycle nowadays and early on mistakes will sometimes (often) be made.

As to Jonas Salk, lol, yes, you’re right, Dr. Fauci is no Jonas Salk -- who came home one day, boiled some needles, and injected his own three children with a vaccine that had only been tested at that point in monkeys.

What a guy.

Lou Figueroa
 
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