D. DiLiberto vs. T. Fleharty 2000 D.C.C.

Cary

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I have decided to put these in percentages.
times out of 10 player will make 2 ball and get out- 3
times out of 10 player will make 2 ball and then play safe off 15 ball- 2
times out of 10 player will miss 10 ball and opponent will get no balls- 2
times out of 10 player will miss 2ball and opponent will get 1 ball- 2
times out of 10 player will miss 2 ball and opponent will get more than 1 ball- 1

so in 3 instances the game is over and you won
in 2 instances you are up 7 to 3 and the move
in 2 other instances you are still up 6 to 3 and your opponent is probably long banking the 9 ball or 2 ball
in 2 instances you will be up 6 to 4 and your opponent might have one near his hole or dripping
in 1 instance you will be up 6 to 5 or tied maybe

now ask your self how many times out of 10 will the guy up 6 to 3 who plays safe win? keep in mind the guy playing safe is leaving a some kind of shot for his opponent ALL 10 TIMES
One more time. Shooting the 2 ball against this opponent IS a "move" just as shooting a hanger would be. Except you're still shooting if you make it.
 

wincardona

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I finally went to my table to play the options that imo are the 3 that are available.
Shotting the 2ball
playing safe off the left side of the 15 ball
double banking the 9ball..

Shooting the 2ball..I shot the shot 5 times and sold out every time I shot the shot. 3 times I drew the cue ball to the side rail and then back over the top of the 15ball:eek:
Once I drew the cue ball to the side rail and then to the bottom rail and then narrowly missing the top of the 15ball and sold out.

Once I drew the cue ball to the side rail and then... into....the 15ball and sold out a bank.

I never made the shot, but did come reasonably close every time.

Shooting the 15ball safety was not as good as I originally thought for the reason of the distance the cue ball neede to travel for a great result. I did manage to play 2 0f the 5 attempts reasonably well and the other 3 attempts I sold out a bank on the 9ball, or another type of move for my opponent.

Now to the option that imo is clearly the best option. And that would be to double bank the 9ball. I also shot this shot 5 times with great results 4 of the 5 times. I made it once, and hung it once. Two other times I positioned it near to my pocket creating a problem for my opponent. The last shot the 9ball landed on the bottom rail a diamond away from my pocket. Actually not bad at all.

My conclusion is that shooting the 2ball for me is not an option. Playing the 15ball safety is ok but still not a shot I would feel comfortable in shooting. Playing the double bank on the 9ball is an option that I would bet high money on that being the better option between two equal players . So if The onepockethacker likes shooting the 2ball as opposed to double banking the 9ball he's got action and can bet what he wants. Remember...between two equal players... What do you have to say, Hacker?

Dr. Bill
 

blindlemon

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Ok, even though I know very few are interested in what I think about this shot I had to reassure my self. So, I shot the shot 10 consecutive times.
#1 made the ball, went over the 15, played safe
#2 made the ball, scratched, spotted a ball now two on the spot
#3 made the ball, went over the 15, played safe
#4 made the ball, went over the 15, played safe
#5 missed the ball, went over the 15, sold out badly
#6 made the ball, scratched, spotted a ball now two on the spot
#7 made the ball, ran into the 15, forced to play safe
#8 made the ball, scratched, spotted a ball now two on the spot
#9 missed the ball, ran into the 15 left the table safe
#10 missed the ball, sold out

When i originally shot the shot I shot it two times in a row, pocketing the ball and dropping in behind the 15 for position. I didn't think about the mechanics of the shot only the end result. I think the difference for me is if I SEE a shot I will almost always make it. BUT, after setting the shot and shooting it in everyday mode I would have to say I'm not sure how good the shot is. Even though I made the ball five times and was able to play safe, after reconsideration I believe I would shoot DR. Bill'S shot, the double bank on the nine. Much easier and with much more consistent results I will say however that I believe I would have popped that puppy in and drawn position if I approached the table the way I felt that day. Today I wouldn't shoot it. In the end I think I did a disservice to people who are trying to learn by insisting. Anyway that's my honest analysis.

JohnG
 

Cary

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Ok, even though I know very few are interested in what I think about this shot I had to reassure my self. So, I shot the shot 10 consecutive times.
#1 made the ball, went over the 15, played safe
#2 made the ball, scratched, spotted a ball now two on the spot
#3 made the ball, went over the 15, played safe
#4 made the ball, went over the 15, played safe
#5 missed the ball, went over the 15, sold out badly
#6 made the ball, scratched, spotted a ball now two on the spot
#7 made the ball, ran into the 15, forced to play safe
#8 made the ball, scratched, spotted a ball now two on the spot
#9 missed the ball, ran into the 15 left the table safe
#10 missed the ball, sold out

When i originally shot the shot I shot it two times in a row, pocketing the ball and dropping in behind the 15 for position. I didn't think about the mechanics of the shot only the end result. I think the difference for me is if I SEE a shot I will almost always make it. BUT, after setting the shot and shooting it in everyday mode I would have to say I'm not sure how good the shot is. Even though I made the ball five times and was able to play safe, after reconsideration I believe I would shoot DR. Bill'S shot, the double bank on the nine. Much easier and with much more consistent results I will say however that I believe I would have popped that puppy in and drawn position if I approached the table the way I felt that day. Today I wouldn't shoot it. In the end I think I did a disservice to people who are trying to learn by insisting. Anyway that's my honest analysis.

JohnG
John, were you shooting it to make contact with the 15, get position on the 15, or just make the 2 and the hell with the rest of it?
 

blindlemon

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I was shooting to play position on the 15. Funny thing, when I first shot it I nailed it. Now, I can make the ball fairly consistent but can't get behind that ball. The best I did was hit it.:( The reason I scratched is I was letting up on my stroke. Doesn't matter, I couldn't make it today.

JohnG
 

Scrzbill

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OK,

Now this is my shot. (at the right hole this time) shot with draw and full left english.

I'm taking a swing and not paying attention to the score.

Sometimes you feel like shooting.

Dud

View attachment 7109


Knowing how straight you shoot, you're out. Anyone not shooting this shot can't shoot or has no heart.
 

Scrzbill

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I finally went to my table to play the options that imo are the 3 that are available.
Shotting the 2ball
playing safe off the left side of the 15 ball
double banking the 9ball..

Shooting the 2ball..I shot the shot 5 times and sold out every time I shot the shot. 3 times I drew the cue ball to the side rail and then back over the top of the 15ball:eek:
Once I drew the cue ball to the side rail and then to the bottom rail and then narrowly missing the top of the 15ball and sold out.

Once I drew the cue ball to the side rail and then... into....the 15ball and sold out a bank.

I never made the shot, but did come reasonably close every time.

Shooting the 15ball safety was not as good as I originally thought for the reason of the distance the cue ball neede to travel for a great result. I did manage to play 2 0f the 5 attempts reasonably well and the other 3 attempts I sold out a bank on the 9ball, or another type of move for my opponent.

Now to the option that imo is clearly the best option. And that would be to double bank the 9ball. I also shot this shot 5 times with great results 4 of the 5 times. I made it once, and hung it once. Two other times I positioned it near to my pocket creating a problem for my opponent. The last shot the 9ball landed on the bottom rail a diamond away from my pocket. Actually not bad at all.

My conclusion is that shooting the 2ball for me is not an option. Playing the 15ball safety is ok but still not a shot I would feel comfortable in shooting. Playing the double bank on the 9ball is an option that I would bet high money on that being the better option between two equal players . So if The onepockethacker likes shooting the 2ball as opposed to double banking the 9ball he's got action and can bet what he wants. Remember...between two equal players... What do you have to say, Hacker?

Dr. Bill
I'll take the score as it is as my spot and shoot the two as shown. Lets bet. Get Dudley in it too.:lol:lol Not to interfere with your other prop bet though.:sorry
 

onepockethacker

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I finally went to my table to play the options that imo are the 3 that are available.
Shotting the 2ball
playing safe off the left side of the 15 ball
double banking the 9ball..

Shooting the 2ball..I shot the shot 5 times and sold out every time I shot the shot. 3 times I drew the cue ball to the side rail and then back over the top of the 15ball:eek:
Once I drew the cue ball to the side rail and then to the bottom rail and then narrowly missing the top of the 15ball and sold out.

Once I drew the cue ball to the side rail and then... into....the 15ball and sold out a bank.

I never made the shot, but did come reasonably close every time.

Shooting the 15ball safety was not as good as I originally thought for the reason of the distance the cue ball neede to travel for a great result. I did manage to play 2 0f the 5 attempts reasonably well and the other 3 attempts I sold out a bank on the 9ball, or another type of move for my opponent.

Now to the option that imo is clearly the best option. And that would be to double bank the 9ball. I also shot this shot 5 times with great results 4 of the 5 times. I made it once, and hung it once. Two other times I positioned it near to my pocket creating a problem for my opponent. The last shot the 9ball landed on the bottom rail a diamond away from my pocket. Actually not bad at all.

My conclusion is that shooting the 2ball for me is not an option. Playing the 15ball safety is ok but still not a shot I would feel comfortable in shooting. Playing the double bank on the 9ball is an option that I would bet high money on that being the better option between two equal players . So if The onepockethacker likes shooting the 2ball as opposed to double banking the 9ball he's got action and can bet what he wants. Remember...between two equal players... What do you have to say, Hacker?

Dr. Bill
Unfortunately Billy you dont get 3 days to make your decision when you are playing. Instantly I liked shooting the 2 ball and you liked playing safe with the 15 ball. You ranted and raved and flapped your gums and now you want to 2 rail the 9 ball. As I stated originally your safe on the 15 ball isn't worth crap!! I didn't need 3 days to decide that, just 30 seconds. Just think if you would have been commentating an accustats match you would have been giving people bad advice...hmmm you would of swore the safe on the 15 ball was the shot.... You and i will play 2 ways. I shoot the 2 ball and you play safe on the 15 ball.. then I shoot the 2 ball and you shoot the 2 railer on the 9 ball. We can play 5 ahead both ways... Whats your bet LEGEND?
P.S. only a fool is going to 2 rail the 9 ball down table with the 15 ball sitting where it is and the 2 ball on the spot. Recipe for a loss. If the 9 ball sits on the side rail you leave either a bank on the 9 ball or the cut on the 2 ball. If the ball hangs your opponent in just going to follow it in and scratch and its 6 to 2 you with ball in hand behind the headstring with no makeable ball.
 
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SJDinPHX

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John, were you shooting it to make contact with the 15, get position on the 15, or just make the 2 and the hell with the rest of it?
Good question Cary ! All John convinced me of, is he shoots a little straighter than Dr. Bill..(JK-B.I.) :p..At my current level of play, I would probably only make it once or twice, out of 10 tries..:eek:

But as I said before, not too sure, (even in my prime) I would have tried to draw the cue ball to the side rail..But, given the angle I see there,...I WILL clear out the 15, almost every shot..unless I miss the duece, half a diamond, (which ain't gonna happen) ...IMO..Its all about how hard you shoot at the duece.
 

onepockethacker

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Let me add one thing about this situation that I havent said but I have to factor it in. If Im fresh or feeling good im shooting the 2 ball everytime. However when I play long matches my blood sugar gets really messed up(probably because of the weight) and I sometimes can't even see the ball unless I eat something. So if I happened to be in a long match and my sugar was ****ing up I very possibly would not shoot the 2 ball because I might hit it so bad and **** everything up. Other than that scenario im shooting the 2 ball.
P.S. That's something I myself have to consider where other people probably dont go through that.
 

Frank Almanza

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I've learned with age and experience that not everything will go as we plan. The shot on the two has much danger involved with it if missed. Only having one chance to decide what to do here I would back off and consider the consequences. The opponent, importance of the game and how I felt, would play a good part in my choice in this situation.

As much as I think that I can make the two I can also remember missing this same shot many times.
The two railer on the nine for me is very high percentage. I will either make it or leave it very near my hole so that my opponent will have to give it his full attention. If I make it then I would probably shoot the two.
 

vapros

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If I'm going to shoot the 9 ball,

If I'm going to shoot the 9 ball,

I will try to cut it in, and make a fairly good try at it, too. I have never learned to shoot such a two-railer. For one thing, here in the deep south, and on these Diamond tables, you really have to hammer it to get it to reach that far. Also, mine always come up short. I never seem to get it close. I would give up all my cookies to learn the secret.
 

Scrzbill

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One more time. Shooting the 2 ball against this opponent IS a "move" just as shooting a hanger would be. Except you're still shooting if you make it.
The thread isn't about what would you do against DiLiberto but what you would do in this situation playing someone your speed. How is it a "move" to shoot a shot, I like, I shoot often for the $$$$$, I know is a winner, when I'm playing someone my speed and with a three ball edge? I don't even know by what you mean by a move if I'm playing DiLiberto, which I did in 2003 DCC and won. (DiLiberto jr who I used to play in Louisville when we both was lernin.)
I am not trying to be argumentative but isn't putting the fear into your opponent not to leave you a shot part of the game of one pocket. Give me a guy who plays, safe, safe, safe, and I will trap him so bad, he will play more safes and lose worse.
When I was playing John Schmidt in 2003, I knew that if I didn't come with my best shots and my best moves I was toast. I played safeties I normally would shoot and mainly safe one pocket shots. In a race to three, the match went to three games, I made a ball. To get knocked out in the 2003 one pocket, was a two hour grind match with King of Banks, nice guy John.
2003 was the year I was injured, right after the DCC. I have tried to play since at the DCC, but I've lost too much of my game. Today, I'm just a slugger who can't make a two foot straight in.
 

Scrzbill

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I will try to cut it in, and make a fairly good try at it, too. I have never learned to shoot such a two-railer. For one thing, here in the deep south, and on these Diamond tables, you really have to hammer it to get it to reach that far. Also, mine always come up short. I never seem to get it close. I would give up all my cookies to learn the secret.
Overcut and use reverse. The overcut will get you down there without having to pound a hole into the rail. Aim for past the side to the first diamond. Adjust.
 

Dudley

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Knowing how straight you shoot, you're out. Anyone not shooting this shot can't shoot or has no heart.
I appreciate your confidence in my game. But I couldn't commit to playing this shot every time. It's not a total lock at my ability level. But it is attractive. :)

Dud
 

jtompilot

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I finally went to my table to play the options that imo are the 3 that are available.
Shotting the 2ball
playing safe off the left side of the 15 ball
double banking the 9ball..

Shooting the 2ball..I shot the shot 5 times and sold out every time I shot the shot. 3 times I drew the cue ball to the side rail and then back over the top of the 15ball:eek:
Once I drew the cue ball to the side rail and then to the bottom rail and then narrowly missing the top of the 15ball and sold out.

Once I drew the cue ball to the side rail and then... into....the 15ball and sold out a bank.

I never made the shot, but did come reasonably close every time.

Shooting the 15ball safety was not as good as I originally thought for the reason of the distance the cue ball neede to travel for a great result. I did manage to play 2 0f the 5 attempts reasonably well and the other 3 attempts I sold out a bank on the 9ball, or another type of move for my opponent.

Now to the option that imo is clearly the best option. And that would be to double bank the 9ball. I also shot this shot 5 times with great results 4 of the 5 times. I made it once, and hung it once. Two other times I positioned it near to my pocket creating a problem for my opponent. The last shot the 9ball landed on the bottom rail a diamond away from my pocket. Actually not bad at all.

My conclusion is that shooting the 2ball for me is not an option. Playing the 15ball safety is ok but still not a shot I would feel comfortable in shooting. Playing the double bank on the 9ball is an option that I would bet high money on that being the better option between two equal players . So if The onepockethacker likes shooting the 2ball as opposed to double banking the 9ball he's got action and can bet what he wants. Remember...between two equal players... What do you have to say, Hacker?

Dr. Bill
Hey Doc, if you read my post I also said the draw could be hazardous to your health. I like center ball hit that gave me a 90% sucess rate between making the 2 or missing and sending the 15 out of there. I did not try the two rail.

Jim
 

Cowboy Dennis

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Incardona & Grady co-commentated this match. As soon as the balls stopped rolling after DD's shot, Grady said "he has a shot at the 2 but I wouldn't shoot it with a 6-3 lead".

7 seconds after the balls stopped rolling Cardone said "now right away I see that he can double-bank the 9, he can double-bank the 9 from this position". It was the only shot Bill advocated before Toby shot.

See Bill, sometimes these DVD's work for you:).

Dennis
 

Cowboy Dennis

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Perhaps it's not a shot your not familiar with. I'm an old school 9 ball player and that shot came up a lot before texas express rules. it's still a shot I practice.

JohnG
JG,

I assume you meant to write "perhaps it's not a shot you're familiar with". I'm 53 yrs. old and the only 9-Ball I would ever gamble at was "any-two fouls BIH & everything spots up" so I am quite familiar with spot-shots and enjoy shooting them for money also, however, I don't remember shooting them from the 1st diamond after a player scratched. This is not a spot-shot just because the ball's on the spot.

Dennis
 
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Cowboy Dennis

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PS..I'm firing at the deuce, firm, no english, and driving the 15 uptable, with the cue ball... which is also where the duece is going, if I miss it ! (quite rare, indeed !)..;)
The shot I am proposing, is coming off the duece, and knocking the 15, up table. This looks to me, like a perfect angle to do this..IF (big if) you shoot the correct speed..I think you both know, the firmer you shoot, the more bounce and deflection you will create, as you come off the 2 ball..

The angle presented in RBL's layout, would make me concerned more with 'double-kissing the 15, rather than hitting it too thin..I, in no way, endorse drawing the cue ball to the side rail first. To me that increases the difficulty for a sucessful outcome, several fold..Its all about speed..And I (used to) have a good enough stroke to do whatever I wanted with the cue ball..:cool:

Super 'Ballsy' Duck ROTFLMFAO
Very good Fish, you win a cookie:). Toby shot the 2 as you suggested but he missed it. The rock double-kissed the 15 near DD's pocket.

TF's Shot3.jpg

Danny made the 15, got on the 2 and made it and then missed a straight-back on the 9 ball.

DD's Shot.jpg

Dennis
 

onepockethacker

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As far as im concerned toby shot the right ball but didn't shoot it the right way. You have to draw into the side rail and kick the 15 over. Can't take a chance of the double kiss which is exactly what happened. Interesting it took Billy 7 seconds commentating the match to say 2 rail the 9 ball and for 3 days he said play safe on the 15 ball. Of all three options, 2 railing the 9 ball was the worst choice. Bringing another ball down table in this situation is horrible. I wonder why Toby didn't 2 rail the 9 ball... The guys who dont like a little woofing must not have spent much time in poolrooms...it comes with the game.
 
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