"Crying Sam"?

fred bentivegna

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(This is a PM I got from Rockinthe40ounce. I couldnt reply because his box was full.)

Rockinthe40ounce:
bull shit you beat seattle sam, thats my grandpa , the greatest pool player in Virginia[/QUOTE]


You talking about "Crying Sam" Crotzer (spelling)? If you are, I certainly did beat him at the Billiard Den in Hollywood playing his and my best game, bank pool. He grumbled and groaned the whole time, living up to his name. I beat every human in Calif. then playing banks, from Denny Searcy on down to playing Ronnie Allen 9 to 7.
Everybody can be beat, son.

the Beard
 

NH Steve

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A different Sam??

A different Sam??

fred bentivegna said:
Are you talking about "Crying Sam" Crotzer (spelling)? If you are, I certainly did beat him at the Billiard Den in Hollywood playing his and my best game, bank pool. He grumbled and groaned the whole time, living up to his name. I beat every human in Calif. then playing banks, from Denny Searcy on down to playing Ronnie Allen 9 to 7.
Everybody can be beat, son.

the Beard
'Seattle Sam' was a different player from Sam Crotzer. I believe 'Seattle Sam' was Samuel Trivett, from the Virginia/Tennessee state line town of Bristol. Seattle Sam apparently may also have been known as 'Fat Sam'?

40ounce -- maybe you can add some more information about your grandpa? If you can add some history, we sure would appreciate it. You can always use the Contact Us page here on OnePocket.org to leave a phone number -- I'll call you on my nickel.

The info I have on Sam Crotzer is mostly from Bill Marshall and Eddie Taylor (who was very close to Sam early on, before Sam went west and took the nickname, 'Okie Sam').
 

Grady

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Different men

Different men

Sam "Okie Sam" Crockett was Eddie Taylor's friend and road partner. He was a solid player but surly and mean. If you beat him he'd say sometimes, "I hope you die of cancer." Ironically I'm pretty sure he succumbed to that disease.
Sam Trivett wasn't a world class player but he was a world class game maker. He was a nice gentleman with a terrific sense of humor, a real pleasure to do business with.
Merry Christmas, everyone.
 

fred bentivegna

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Beat Fat Sam Tribett too.

Beat Fat Sam Tribett too.

To Rockinthe40ounce:

If your Grandpa was Fat Sam Tribett, I beat him also in LA playing bank. You should first understand, when I was coming up I had a hit list of bankers to seek out and shoot down. Just the fact that the two Sam's were on the list gives you some idea of how good, and well regarded they were playing banks.
In the early '70s just about every player on earth was in LA, including another guy I crossed off the bankers list, his nickname was "Little Hand" Bramlett (sp?)
There was another guy on the list that took me 25 years to finally beat, and I only beat him once (he beat me often), his name was Vernon Eliot.

The Beard
 
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glee

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fred bentivegna said:
(This is a PM I got from Rockinthe40ounce. I couldnt reply because his box was full.)

Virginia

You talking about "Crying Sam" Crotzer (spelling)? If you are, I certainly did beat him at the Billiard Den in Hollywood playing his and my best game, bank pool. He grumbled and groaned the whole time, living up to his name. I beat every human in Calif. then playing banks, from Denny Searcy on down to playing Ronnie Allen 9 to 7.
Everybody can be beat, son.

the Beard[/QUOTE]Fred, I first met Oakie Sam at Cocorans about 1958 he was probably in his late fifties then, I only got to see him play a couple of times, one of which caused him to go into his tantrum mode,it lasted about 15 minutes and was truly a spectical! When Clem showed up at Cocorans he played Sam one pocket even on a 5 X 10 table Sam won. Johnny Vivis suffered the same fate a year or so later. Joplings interview gives a fairly accurate picture of him. I always though he had a great sense of humor,and he was generous with some information, he steered Bucktooth and I into a nice score once. It would be nice to see him come up for the hall of fame he 'd get my vote for sure. So Fred if Sam played your speed at age 70 or so just imagine at age 35
 

fred bentivegna

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Impressive list of victims

Impressive list of victims

glee said:
You talking about "Crying Sam" Crotzer (spelling)? If you are, I certainly did beat him at the Billiard Den in Hollywood playing his and my best game, bank pool. He grumbled and groaned the whole time, living up to his name. I beat every human in Calif. then playing banks, from Denny Searcy on down to playing Ronnie Allen 9 to 7.
Everybody can be beat, son.

the Beard
Fred, I first met Oakie Sam at Cocorans about 1958 he was probably in his late fifties then, I only got to see him play a couple of times, one of which caused him to go into his tantrum mode,it lasted about 15 minutes and was truly a spectical! When Clem showed up at Cocorans he played Sam one pocket even on a 5 X 10 table Sam won. Johnny Vivis suffered the same fate a year or so later. Joplings interview gives a fairly accurate picture of him. I always though he had a great sense of humor,and he was generous with some information, he steered Bucktooth and I into a nice score once. It would be nice to see him come up for the hall of fame he 'd get my vote for sure. So Fred if Sam played your speed at age 70 or so just imagine at age 35[/QUOTE]

Glee, that's two jiffy good players you named that he knocked off. I had already heard a lot about him when I was a kid from an old short-change artist named "Tex." Incidentally, Rockinthe40ounce never did say which Sam his Grandpa was.

the Beard
 

Smorgass Bored

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Incidentally, Rockinthe40ounce never did say which Sam his Grandpa was.
the Beard


I'm laying 2 1/2 to 1 that he had one......
Doug
( hurry up and bet before he answers )
 

glee

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[
Glee, that's two jiffy good players you named that he knocked off. I had already heard a lot about him when I was a kid from an old short-change artist named "Tex." Incidentally, Rockinthe40ounce never did say which Sam his Grandpa was.

the Beard[/QUOTE]
Well Fred if Rockin's Grampa was from Virginia that rules out Sam Crotzer, he was from Nashville. Did Tex the short change technican show you any moves?I had a guy wanting me to take that up for a career move but I had a tripple strong gaff with the payoff pinball's so I left well enough alone. Oh, jiffy Vivis had another problem at Cocorans, J C Chapman was there for a while, this was shortly after the first Johnson City tourny. They were both broke and nobody to play but each other, they played almost nightly for about a month for short money. Some of the best playing I'd ever seen. If Vivis didn't get a break and run 4 or 5 balls and get way out in front he was DOOMED he couldnt get around those banks Chapman put on him. Also played on a 5 X 10
 

fred bentivegna

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No heart for the short-change

No heart for the short-change

glee said:
[
Glee, that's two jiffy good players you named that he knocked off. I had already heard a lot about him when I was a kid from an old short-change artist named "Tex." Incidentally, Rockinthe40ounce never did say which Sam his Grandpa was.

the Beard
Well Fred if Rockin's Grampa was from Virginia that rules out Sam Crotzer, he was from Nashville. Did Tex the short change technican show you any moves?I had a guy wanting me to take that up for a career move but I had a tripple strong gaff with the payoff pinball's so I left well enough alone. Oh, jiffy Vivis had another problem at Cocorans, J C Chapman was there for a while, this was shortly after the first Johnson City tourny. They were both broke and nobody to play but each other, they played almost nightly for about a month for short money. Some of the best playing I'd ever seen. If Vivis didn't get a break and run 4 or 5 balls and get way out in front he was DOOMED he couldnt get around those banks Chapman put on him. Also played on a 5 X 10[/QUOTE]

Yeah, Tex showed me the short-change moves, but I never had the heart? to employ them. They mostly revolved around beating some naive teen-aged counter girl who would later have to make up the shortage. I just wasnt cold blooded enough to do it. I liked my victims to put up a little resistance. Even Tex got sick of doing it and retired.
You got to see some real pool, my friend. JC (short for Johnny Chapman, AKA, Lefty, AKA, Cannonball --Fats nicknamed him that) was a genuine gun-fighter. He would play until he either won all the money in the house or he was broke.

the Beard
 

piglit

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I knew Sam Trivett for a 5+ years, his twilight years. When Sam was in the room, you could be sure there was going to be gambling of some sort, he really had a way of getting the action started.

There was talk of a regular card game Same and another man played. Sam was found with cards in his lap and his opponent was furious. Sam told him, "well goddamn, how am I supposed to win if I can't cheat? You play this game too f'in good?".

I visited him in Bristol during a road trip and he was as sharp and humorous as ever. As I recall, he passed away a mont or so after that.

General consensus on Sam's playing ability was that he was a solid player. He required a hefty spot from the best players of his day, one-pocket being his best game, but could beat the better players in most rooms. Sam's true skill was gambling and there was no one that had to beat him at that.
 

Tom Wirth

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Sam was hanging around the Washington DC area for a while back in the early to mid 90's a place called USA billiards when I played him. I busted him the one time we played.
Some time later he had some kind of acident and was rolling around in a wheelchair. I'm not sure what happened to him but he was in that chair for a few months. Later on he came in the pool hall walking around and said that the company which loaned him the chair repossessed it for non payment.
That, everybody thought was the most cold blooded thing we ever heard.
Imagine having your wheelchair pulled out from under you! Sam, always ready with something quick to say, smiled and belched out "It was the best thing that could have happened! It got me up on my feet faster."

He was a great figure to have around the pool hall. He encouraged action and always good for a laugh.:)
 

JAM

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Tom Wirth said:
Sam was hanging around the Washington DC area for a while back in the early to mid 90's a place called USA billiards when I played him. I busted him the one time we played.
Some time later he had some kind of acident and was rolling around in a wheelchair. I'm not sure what happened to him but he was in that chair for a few months. Later on he came in the pool hall walking around and said that the company which loaned him the chair repossessed it for non payment.
That, everybody thought was the most cold blooded thing we ever heard.
Imagine having your wheelchair pulled out from under you! Sam, always ready with something quick to say, smiled and belched out "It was the best thing that could have happened! It got me up on my feet faster."

He was a great figure to have around the pool hall. He encouraged action and always good for a laugh.:)
Hey, Tom. Long time no see! I had thought you chose a different forum name last time I logged in here. :D

I remember seeing Seattle Sam at the old Champions (pre-Richard Allen Champions) on Glebe Road in Virginia in the late '70s and early '80s era. I think he used to work there, and you're right, when Sam was in the house, there was usually some action going on.

Last time I saw Sam was in Greensboro, NC, at a place called Baker's, which boasted about having the best hot dogs in the State of North Carolina. That was a really cool pool room. This was during the era when it was quite acceptable for a player to climb onto the table, on all fours, and shoot a shot. There was quite a bit of action at this Greensboro pool room, as I recall. Sam gave us a referral to go to some place in Tennessee, since we were on the road, to play the owner of a pool room there. I want to say the name of the town was Morrison and the owner's name was Frank.

At any rate, we traveled all the way to Morrison, stopping at a few joints along the way, and sure enough, the owner of Morrison's pool room was called in to play my friend some. I remember they had an archery shooting gallery in the room, which caught my interest.

Frank negotiated a game with my road partner. He apparently enjoyed playing champion players in front of a crowd, but he was always looking for a spot. He didn't play that well, but he was a good score if you could get him down.

Well, my friend shot lights out, and after two or three short games, Frank unscrewed his stick. You know who I was on the road with, Tom. Ta watta goose siam. :D

Years later, I mentioned this pool room to Earl Strickland who knew the place well. He told me that Frank was shot to death by his wife some years back.

Here's my one an only picture of Seattle Sam, with a young me in the middle, and John Henry on the right. As a matter of fact, Tom, this picture was taken at USA Billiards by Dennis Wilson!

JAM
 
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Tom Wirth

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Hi Jen,
Yeah, I did have another name going on here but since it's been so long since I've been to this site and I don't recall or have on record what my user name was, I just started all over again.
Yes, Oh -Wa -Ta -Goo- Si -Am could shoot lights out when the chemistry was right. And in his younger days his One Pocket play was inspiring. He was just SO flakey! God Bless him.:)
Tom
 

JAM

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Tom Wirth said:
Hi Jen,
Yeah, I did have another name going on here but since it's been so long since I've been to this site and I don't recall or have on record what my user name was, I just started all over again.
Yes, Oh -Wa -Ta -Goo- Si -Am could shoot lights out when the chemistry was right. And in his younger days his One Pocket play was inspiring. He was just SO flakey! God Bless him.:)
Tom
If I had never met you, Tom, I don't think I would be here writing on this forum, to tell the truth! I will NEVER forget our first meeting at Hank's. The table was rocking and rolling with a long list. So people were playing partner games. You, a stranger, walked in and put your name on the list. When your game came up, you tried to get a partner, but everybody was taken, except me, the worst player in the joint. :eek:

Much to my surprise, you asked ME to be your partner, but only after your multiple requests to others were denied. :p

I was a broke dog that night and put up my last dollar to play. The game commenced, and you were the star. We held the table for four or five games, and I pocketed enough jellybeans to keep me in high spirits and good cheer for the night. One of the best pool highs of my pool-playing career, the early days! :D

To stay on topic of the thread, I remember sweating a few of Seattle Sam's matches in Greensboro. He was hitting 'em mighty sporty, as I recall, that evening. There were some folks playing cards in the back room, but this night, Sam's interests were on a one-pocket game with a local. I think his name was "Groundhog." I do remember watching Seattle Sam crawling up the 9-foot table on all fours to make a shot. Back then, it was the norm. Today, you don't see players doing that anymore.

JAM
 

JG-in-KY

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JAM said:
Sam gave us a referral to go to some place in Tennessee, since we were on the road, to play the owner of a pool room there. I want to say the name of the town was Morrison and the owner's name was Frank.
JAM
Was it Morristown? Its located about an hour east of Knoxville. There was a man by the name of Frank who used to back some players there for big $$$ until about 10 years ago when his wife shot him.
 

gulfportdoc

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.

.

JAM said:
I do remember watching Seattle Sam crawling up the 9-foot table on all fours to make a shot. Back then, it was the norm. Today, you don't see players doing that anymore.

JAM
Well, they still do that in New Orleans, Jam. It's astonishing to see a 6'2", 225 lb. man climb up with all fours on the table and shoot a shoot down near the foot spot!!:eek: The first time I saw that happen, my mouth dropped open. I thought the player was doing it for a joke. Hadn't seen that since the old YMCA days. It's kinda like seeing a dog walk on his hind legs...:rolleyes:

Doc
thinks every poolroom ought to have at least one bridge
 

JAM

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JG-in-KY said:
Was it Morristown? Its located about an hour east of Knoxville. There was a man by the name of Frank who used to back some players there for big $$$ until about 10 years ago when his wife shot him.
That's the place for sure! Inside, I remember they had an archery target where folks could shoot. I had never seen that before at any pool room. I happen to be an excellent archer -- or is it "archess" in my case? :)

Many a player went to that pool room. It was a destination on every action player's agenda.

JAM
 

JAM

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gulfportdoc said:
Well, they still do that in New Orleans, Jam. It's astonishing to see a 6'2", 225 lb. man climb up with all fours on the table and shoot a shoot down near the foot spot!!:eek: The first time I saw that happen, my mouth dropped open. I thought the player was doing it for a joke. Hadn't seen that since the old YMCA days. It's kinda like seeing a dog walk on his hind legs...:rolleyes:

Doc
thinks every poolroom ought to have at least one bridge
They are not doing it in my neck of the woods anymore. They did, though, 20-plus years ago. Today, one must have a foot on the floor when shooting a shot.

However, I did find it interesting that Danny Harriman got up on all fours during an IPT tournament versus Johnny Archer! :D

Johnny wasn't very happy about it, but there wasn't a rule prohibiting Danny from climbing up on the table. Hey, all is fair in love and POOL! :p

JAM
 
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