Consistency issues in the game

johnnytronic

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Apr 14, 2016
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I "try" to be true to myself and know the limitations of my game and the ability to pocket balls--control the cue ball etc.... What I'm starting to conclude is that not just me but a loooot of players must over estimate their ability to pocket balls in this game. Pros and novices alike. :cool:

This game has some special challenges that I'm personally struggling with and looking for advice, special practice drills or just about anything conceptual that can make a difference. :frus

What I'm essentially experiencing is that I feel like I'm missing a lot of cut shots that I do not miss any other games. To be fair, that I probably miss a lot less in other games. I think this has most to do with trying to constantly hit balls at pocket speed or the 20 rounds of bunting then all of the sudden you have to draw a ball 8 feet. I mean sure, you might say "this is so obvious that this is the exact reason why shots that appear high percentage are missed."

Maybe its as simple as doing drills at pocket speed and then firing at a ball and then pocket speed then fire away...

Every now and then I will watch a player that appears to not be effected by this. They pocket balls like they are playing 9-ball.

I'm actually starting to consider that shooting a full length table shot and attempting to use pocket speed, actually lowers the % of making that ball over lets say a medium stroke. You figure all tables have some small rolls
so you rolling a ball in at pocket speed has you lets say 1-3% off on accuracy at the contact point and then 1-3% off as it rolls towards the pocket. On any tight pocket table that's enough to cause a ball to hang.

I hung up probably 8 balls in last nights match and I would 6 of them were
able to be kicked out. :sorry
 

LSJohn

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a loooot of players must over estimate their ability to pocket balls in this game. Pros and novices alike.
I don't know why, but I/we sure do.

I think this has most to do with trying to constantly hit balls at pocket speed or the 20 rounds of bunting then all of the sudden you have to draw a ball 8 feet.
Those are all factors, but in rotation we are sometimes just playing to a zone, maybe one that will let us shoot the next ball in one of 3 pockets. In one pocket we are more often trying to play to an exact spot, and this divides our attention between pocketing and CB control. I know I am sometimes thinking so much about where the CB is going that, without realizing it, I hit the object ball in whatever way will get me there. It's somewhat like the shots where we're playing "all cue ball" but unintentional.
 

Jeff sparks

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If you have developed a feel for seeing the natural angle encountered when trying to pocket a specific ball, then you have an edge on not only pocketing the ball more often, but you also have the ability to combine the two together (the pocketing of the ball and the natural deflection angle of the CB) into a single thought.

Being able to see the natural angle helps you make a good hit on the OB, and the good hit on the OB sends the CB on the correct natural ( angle) path. They work in tandem as sort of a check and balance to every shot, no matter how tough or how simple the shot, if you combine the hit to the natural angle of the CB deflection you will be able to pocket balls much better and play much better shape.

If a hit the OB there, the CB will go here, if the CB goes here, I will have hit the OB there. It's when we change the natural angle of the CB that things become more complicated and we sometimes miss!

I watched Wayne Pullen play quite a bit at the Seniors event in Houston earlier this year, he has such a great ability to simply roll the cueball. I marveled at the simplicity of Wayne's approach to most shots, in that he completely depended on the natural angles to carry the CB where he wanted it to go. It's not that he couldn't put a big stroke on a shot, on the contrary, he has that ability also, it's just that I think he has realized that playing one pocket using a soft stroke and natural angles is the better way for him to avoid unforced errors. He is the definition of a pocket speed type player...

He is an interesting study in mechanics also, he appears amateurish in stance and bridge, but delivers a smooth and true stroke without the slightest body or head movement. Quite impressive, especially considering he started to play the game at age 50!

I hope this makes some sense to you and helps a little.
 

lll

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i agree with all you said about "playing the natural roll"
however you have play great shape to leave yourself the angle so that the natural roll is there
your opponent is usually not so accomodating on purpose...:rolleyes:
so usually you have to "tweak it" alittle
at least thats my experience
 

lll

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Mar 19, 2007
Messages
15,312
I "try" to be true to myself and know the limitations of my game and the ability to pocket balls--control the cue ball etc.... What I'm starting to conclude is that not just me but a loooot of players must over estimate their ability to pocket balls in this game. Pros and novices alike. :cool:

This game has some special challenges that I'm personally struggling with and looking for advice, special practice drills or just about anything conceptual that can make a difference. :frus

What I'm essentially experiencing is that I feel like I'm missing a lot of cut shots that I do not miss any other games. To be fair, that I probably miss a lot less in other games. I think this has most to do with trying to constantly hit balls at pocket speed or the 20 rounds of bunting then all of the sudden you have to draw a ball 8 feet. I mean sure, you might say "this is so obvious that this is the exact reason why shots that appear high percentage are missed."

Maybe its as simple as doing drills at pocket speed and then firing at a ball and then pocket speed then fire away...

Every now and then I will watch a player that appears to not be effected by this. They pocket balls like they are playing 9-ball.

I'm actually starting to consider that shooting a full length table shot and attempting to use pocket speed, actually lowers the % of making that ball over lets say a medium stroke. You figure all tables have some small rolls
so you rolling a ball in at pocket speed has you lets say 1-3% off on accuracy at the contact point and then 1-3% off as it rolls towards the pocket. On any tight pocket table that's enough to cause a ball to hang.

I hung up probably 8 balls in last nights match and I would 6 of them were
able to be kicked out. :sorry
for the op
i too sufffer from your disease...:D
but think about straight pool players
they can sit in the chair A LONG TIME
watching their opponent run 80 balls for example and then have to get up and BRING IT...:eek:
i think the advice to overcome this is usually that regardless of your shot
try NOT to bunt it
STROKE IT
be as precise as possible
it helps to keep you "in stroke" even tho you are not stroking
i hope this helps
 

Wayne

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Nov 26, 2004
Messages
439
I'm actually starting to consider that shooting a full length table shot and attempting to use pocket speed, actually lowers the % of making that ball over lets say a medium stroke. You figure all tables have some small rolls
so you rolling a ball in at pocket speed has you lets say 1-3% off on accuracy at the contact point and then 1-3% off as it rolls towards the pocket. On any tight pocket table that's enough to cause a ball to hang.

I hung up probably 8 balls in last nights match and I would 6 of them were
able to be kicked out. :sorry
My guess is about 3% of my misses when rolling the ball might be caused by the table causing the ball to roll off or a skid, 97% are caused by not aiming or rolling it correctly.
 

NH Steve

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Apr 25, 2004
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I have posted this several times before, but I will again (and I'm sure more in the future too, lol). Someone posed this question to the late One Pocket HOF player Steve Cook -- who was an excellent all around player -- and he said something like, "Shoot even the simplest safety with the same focus and concentration on accuracy that you would shoot any other shot, and it will help keep you in stroke." I paraphrased. To do that you still have to "stroke the ball" with some authority, albeit a soft, finesse authority oftentimes in One Pocket. I equate it to the same kind of thinking that helps avoid miscues, especially on softer englished shots. If you want to avoid a miscue and get your english to take, you have to deliver the cue tip with some authority -- even if it's a soft shot.
 

GoldCrown

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Dec 9, 2013
Messages
805
This game has some special challenges that I'm personally struggling with and looking for advice, special practice drills or just about anything conceptual that can make a difference. :frus
Welcome to "I'm trying to play this game right". If it weren't for missing, mistakes, hangers, etc I wouldn't have any game:frus
Seriously you will only get better. Do you have Tom Wirth's book on One Pocket. Has a series of practical drills and everything you need to know about 1P. Regardless relax and have fun..and WELOME TO 1P.org
 

Island Drive

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May 1, 2011
Messages
4,075
I "try" to be true to myself and know the limitations of my game and the ability to pocket balls--control the cue ball etc.... What I'm starting to conclude is that not just me but a loooot of players must over estimate their ability to pocket balls in this game. Pros and novices alike. :cool:

This game has some special challenges that I'm personally struggling with and looking for advice, special practice drills or just about anything conceptual that can make a difference. :frus

What I'm essentially experiencing is that I feel like I'm missing a lot of cut shots that I do not miss any other games. To be fair, that I probably miss a lot less in other games. I think this has most to do with trying to constantly hit balls at pocket speed or the 20 rounds of bunting then all of the sudden you have to draw a ball 8 feet. I mean sure, you might say "this is so obvious that this is the exact reason why shots that appear high percentage are missed."

Maybe its as simple as doing drills at pocket speed and then firing at a ball and then pocket speed then fire away...

Every now and then I will watch a player that appears to not be effected by this. They pocket balls like they are playing 9-ball.

I'm actually starting to consider that shooting a full length table shot and attempting to use pocket speed, actually lowers the % of making that ball over lets say a medium stroke. You figure all tables have some small rolls
so you rolling a ball in at pocket speed has you lets say 1-3% off on accuracy at the contact point and then 1-3% off as it rolls towards the pocket. On any tight pocket table that's enough to cause a ball to hang.

I hung up probably 8 balls in last nights match and I would 6 of them were
able to be kicked out. :sorry
After reading your post, I conclude you need to find a person/instructor or player who has the ability to Explain, what's needed (by watching your body mechanics) and what is REALLY going on when you hit that white ball, with a piece of wood into another ball. Explaining this ''SO THAT you CAN CONCEPTUALIZE AND UNDERSTAND THIS'' is not in the wheelhouse of many instructors. Pool.... Since it looks somewhat simple, it's everything BUT that once you understand important concepts and ways to go about fixing and improving your play. Being able to understand your mistakes and why they happen is ''critical'' and the foundation of play. Of all the sports out there, you happen to of chosen thee most precise, and difficult of all, but one of the most rewarding when ''what you see'' is what you do after ya pull the trigger on each shot. The statement....''whitey never lies'' is key once you understand ''ball principles'' your swing/approach and collisions. Because within your mistake, lies your answer....being able to understand that will give your game /mind great comfort and clear thinking. It will stop you :frus:frus:frus from spending/wasting time, being hard on yourself, and will instead help you improve allot quicker.
From my perspective, your problems have Nothing to do with one pocket, and everything to do with being taught how to understand what's going on before the shot, during and after the shot.
 

GoldCrown

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After reading your post, I conclude you need to find a person/instructor or player who has the ability to Explain, what's needed (by watching your body mechanics) and what is REALLY going on when you hit that white ball, with a piece of wood into another ball.
I worked with Scott Lee a few times to develop a stroke and it definitely helped.
I'm a person that cannot learn pool on my own. I need an instructor to get me going. They are priceless.
 

Island Drive

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One of the interesting things I learned, and I did teach for a good ten years, and helped oversee the BCA Instructor program, but that had nothing to do with what I am about to say. Every person conceptualizes and understands spoken words in their own way, and no two people think the same. I had had a airline pilot who I'd given a lesson too. He had a very difficult time understanding ''walking up to the shot'' pre shot routine etc.

Let me back up.....when I first taught (I preferred one on one teaching) a new student I always wanted to know who they were, where they lived, what kind of work they do and their background....knowing this helped ALLOT in understanding how they might think and process what I was trying to explain. In this particular instance of explaining this concept to this man I found a way in, the light went on when I explained it in his terms and he really got excited.

I said....think of what your doing when you walk up to the cue ball, as if it was just like approaching the runway when you land your jet. Do you just swoop in and land, or do you approach the runway in a consistent manner before you touch down? It's quite amazing how often students teach the teacher how to improve. Great instructors in any endeavor of teaching are special people, and as always some are way better than others.
 

GoldCrown

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.when I first taught (I preferred one on one teaching) a new student I always wanted to know who they were, where they lived, what kind of work they do and their background....knowing this helped ALLOT in understanding how they might think and process what I was trying to explain. In this particular instance of explaining this concept to this man I found a way in, the light went on when I explained it in his terms and he really got excited.
That is very interesting and I commend you for being a true TEACHER. About 1 on 1. My first lesson was a 2 hour lesson with a buddy. Never again. Also I tried golf lessons with group of x amount. I felt like part of a package. One on one with a truly dedicated qualified instructor is the difference between learning and advancing or making the same mistakes repeatedly and staying in square one. If a person feels they are not getting anywhere it's time a lesson or 2 or 3. Works..... and still working for me.
 

Tylerbob

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Jan 7, 2016
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"Shoot even the simplest safety with the same focus and concentration on accuracy that you would shoot any other shot, and it will help keep you in stroke."

Steve's comment hit me right between the eyes. My pattern is that I make most balls I expect to until I dog a routine shot. Then I have anxiety over every shot with the expected result. Another way I've heard it expressed is to give every shot the attention it deserves. Easier said than done.
 

Cowboy Dennis

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Dec 16, 2008
Messages
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I "try" to be true to myself and know the limitations of my game and the ability to pocket balls--control the cue ball etc.... What I'm starting to conclude is that not just me but a loooot of players must over estimate their ability to pocket balls in this game. Pros and novices alike. :cool:

This game has some special challenges that I'm personally struggling with and looking for advice, special practice drills or just about anything conceptual that can make a difference. :frus

What I'm essentially experiencing is that I feel like I'm missing a lot of cut shots that I do not miss any other games. To be fair, that I probably miss a lot less in other games. I think this has most to do with trying to constantly hit balls at pocket speed or the 20 rounds of bunting then all of the sudden you have to draw a ball 8 feet. I mean sure, you might say "this is so obvious that this is the exact reason why shots that appear high percentage are missed."

Maybe its as simple as doing drills at pocket speed and then firing at a ball and then pocket speed then fire away...Don't waste your time doing this.

Every now and then I will watch a player that appears to not be effected by this. They pocket balls like they are playing 9-ball.

I'm actually starting to consider that shooting a full length table shot and attempting to use pocket speed, actually lowers the % of making that ball over lets say a medium stroke. You figure all tables have some small rolls
so you rolling a ball in at pocket speed has you lets say 1-3% off on accuracy at the contact point and then 1-3% off as it rolls towards the pocket. On any tight pocket table that's enough to cause a ball to hang.

I hung up probably 8 balls in last nights match and I would 6 of them were
able to be kicked out. :sorry
It may depend on your age and/or how long you've been playing One-Pocket.

You need to have a "bunt" stroke, a "ball-running" stroke, a "bank" stroke and a few other strokes and you need to be able to turn them on and off as needed, that's what One-Pocket is; Start and stop. Stop and start. Start and stop.

The perfect rhythm for playing One-Pocket is no rhythm at all.

Full-Rack Bankpool is a lot like that. You might play 10 safes in a row and then fire a long Straight-Back. You must become comfortable with the rhythm of having no rhythm, that's the perfect rhythm. Stop worrying about all the other stuff, it's not helping.

Dennis
 

petie

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As usual I haven't read every post. I try to run out safe. I mean if I miss, I don't leave a great shot for the oppo. This goes a long way and it will also help you pocket balls because you don't have as much pressure as you would if you are shooting a do or die shot every time. I have often shot a long, low percentage combo with safe and field position, so to speak, instead of going for an easier but missable shot that would leave my man a run out.
 

Wayne

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Messages
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It may depend on your age and/or how long you've been playing One-Pocket.

You need to have a "bunt" stroke, a "ball-running" stroke, a "bank" stroke and a few other strokes and you need to be able to turn them on and off as needed, that's what One-Pocket is; Start and stop. Stop and start. Start and stop.

The perfect rhythm for playing One-Pocket is no rhythm at all.

Full-Rack Bankpool is a lot like that. You might play 10 safes in a row and then fire a long Straight-Back. You must become comfortable with the rhythm of having no rhythm, that's the perfect rhythm. Stop worrying about all the other stuff, it's not helping.

Dennis
Very good analysis Dennis. I never thought of 1 pocket that way. In addition to the strokes mentioned I use backhand English, wrist turns, drag draw, tickies, no backstroke shots, jump strokes, masse etc.
 

Mkbtank

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Consistency issues in the game

Very good analysis Dennis. I never thought of 1 pocket that way. In addition to the strokes mentioned I use backhand English, wrist turns, drag draw, tickies, no backstroke shots, jump strokes, masse etc.


I have always wondered this.. What is backhand English? Thanks.
 

androd

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I have always wondered this.. What is backhand English? Thanks.
To add English, instead of moving the tip of the stick with the bridge hand, you line up center ball and move your grip hand an equal (appox) amount right or left. Guaranteed not to stiff the bank with running English.
 

Mkbtank

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Consistency issues in the game

To add English, instead of moving the tip of the stick with the bridge hand, you line up center ball and move your grip hand an equal (appox) amount right or left. Guaranteed not to stiff the bank with running English.


Whoa... I will have to try it...
 

LSJohn

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To add English, instead of moving the tip of the stick with the bridge hand, you line up center ball and move your grip hand an equal (appox) amount right or left. Guaranteed not to stiff the bank with running English.
I see how it's done, and where it go its name, but I don't get the part about not stiffing a bank with running. Does it have to do with deflection?
 
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