Cliff Joyner vs. Richie Richeson Green Room Finals Game #1

ChrisBanks

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I would like to go through several shots of this match, and thought maybe we could have one thread dedicated to an entire game. I will label each screen shot with the shot number of the game. For example, the break will be shot #1.

In Game #1 Cliff has the break, and the first diagram is Cliff's shot, shot #3 of the game. I wonder if anyone can guess what Cliff did on this shot.....
 

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wincardona

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I would like to go through several shots of this match, and thought maybe we could have one thread dedicated to an entire game. I will label each screen shot with the shot number of the game. For example, the break will be shot #1.

In Game #1 Cliff has the break, and the first diagram is Cliff's shot, shot #3 of the game. I wonder if anyone can guess what Cliff did on this shot.....
I would shoot off the top left side of the 6ball sending it two cushions toward the stack and position the cue ball near the side pocket. The cue ball would be my main concern.
Dr. Bill
 

ChrisBanks

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Well here is the reason I posted this shot. Cliff pocketed the 6-ball into Richie's pocket, and rolled the cueball up. I'm not sure that I remember anyone pocketing a ball into the other player's pocket from such a long distance.
 

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tonygreen

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I have not seen the match but he appears to be attempting to set a trap and giving up one ball is insignificant.


cheers
 

NH Steve

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Well here is the reason I posted this shot. Cliff pocketed the 6-ball into Richie's pocket, and rolled the cueball up. I'm not sure that I remember anyone pocketing a ball into the other player's pocket from such a long distance.
I think Cliff felt he had to get rid of that ball, and due to the natural kiss if he had tried to bank it away, and the fact that he apparently wanted to leave his cue ball controlled right to that spot -- just pocketing it on a stop shot did the trick, though it gave Richie a ball.

Once in a while you see this -- sometimes even from up north, where it is actually a longish shot all the way, but it is always a surprise to see -- like they forgot which was their pocket, lol.
 

wincardona

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Both Cliff and Richie have a very good understanding of how the game of one pocket is played, they are both aggressive players with Richie being a little more aggressive than Cliff. I have played both of these guys dozens of times, probably more than that, and I respect their game quite a bit. In this match... unlike a few other matches that we critique... you will see ...better decisions being made because of the level of experience of both players. These two guys have been battling one another for many many years, with Richie receiving a ball 8/7 as a handicap. (very close) I suspect that this will be a learning experience for us all.

Dr. Bill
 

wincardona

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Well here is the reason I posted this shot. Cliff pocketed the 6-ball into Richie's pocket, and rolled the cueball up. I'm not sure that I remember anyone pocketing a ball into the other player's pocket from such a long distance.
It's rare when you see a player pocket a ball for his opponent that's 6" from his pocket, you would think that...surely there was something else he could of done...:confused: Top players will do this more often than lesser players, reason being that top players have the ability to run more balls. With this understanding, the position of the balls is much more important to the player than a small defecit in ball count. Cliff put Richie in a very tough spot with this move, and it will be very difficult for Richie to do something with his inning that will preclude Cliff from putting him in even more trouble. Unless Richie can do something... Good... with the 2ball and the 4ball with this shot (which it doesn't look like he can) I would take an intentional scratch...and position the cue ball at the top left corner..close to the rail. If Richie has the option to position the cue ball there shooting off the 5ball I still would take the intentional and leave the pesky 5ball there as an ally for me. Unless Richie can move the 5ball to a position that Cliff would have to defend against it.

Dr. Bill
 

wincardona

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It's rare when you see a player pocket a ball for his opponent that's 6" from his pocket, you would think that...surely there was something else he could of done...:confused: Top players will do this more often than lesser players, reason being that top players have the ability to run more balls. With this understanding, the position of the balls is much more important to the player than a small defecit in ball count. Cliff put Richie in a very tough spot with this move, and it will be very difficult for Richie to do something with his inning that will preclude Cliff from putting him in even more trouble. Unless Richie can do something... Good... with the 2ball and the 4ball with this shot (which it doesn't look like he can) I would take an intentional scratch...and position the cue ball at the top left corner..close to the rail. If Richie has the option to position the cue ball there shooting off the 5ball I still would take the intentional and leave the pesky 5ball there as an ally for me. Unless Richie can move the 5ball to a position that Cliff would have to defend against it.

Dr. Bill
There is one very productive shot that looks to be available here, but the degree of difficulty with the shot presents a huge problem, but it's certainly worth the chance if you feel good about your ability to execute the shot. You can kick under the 2 and 4 balls and cross bank the 1ball toward your pocket, the cue ball will run into the stripe and should be controlled in that area. Good things can happen with this shot, and considering the position of the balls and the task in front of you to work out of trouble...it could be worth the gamble, for some.

Dr. Bill
 

Frank Almanza

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If I'm giving up a ball that's six inches from the hole with numerious other options it will be if I'm really putting him in a good trap or developing a much stronger advantage. I don't see that here. In games that last to where there's just a few balls on the table that one ball you gave up could be the difference.
 

fred bentivegna

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Both Cliff and Richie have a very good understanding of how the game of one pocket is played, they are both aggressive players with Richie being a little more aggressive than Cliff. I have played both of these guys dozens of times, probably more than that, and I respect their game quite a bit. In this match... unlike a few other matches that we critique... you will see ...better decisions being made because of the level of experience of both players. These two guys have been battling one another for many many years, with Richie receiving a ball 8/7 as a handicap. (very close) I suspect that this will be a learning experience for us all.

Dr. Bill
Remember when you played Richie 10 to 8 at Bogarts in Detroit? You won about $3500. I was jellied in. Then we went to Jamie Goodwins poolroom and you gave him 10 to 8 also right after he won the 1pkt tourn at Kalamazoo. You beat him too. Whatever happened to you? Did I dream all that? You have turned into a pool egg.
Beard
 

ChrisBanks

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On shot #4 Richie played off of the 5-ball, and sent the cueball to the head rail.

It is now Cliff's shot from here:
 

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Dudley

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I didn't spend much time showing the exact result I would hope to achieve but this would be my shot in this spot.

I would try to get the cue ball frozen on the back rail in line with the 3, 5 and 14 and your pocket, another ball (the 4) closer to your hole while keeping the 2 ball in a bankable spot.

This would make it difficult for Richie to come up with a good reply.


Dudley


Shot5 dudley.PNG
 

wincardona

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I also would of positioned the cue ball at the top left but like I said earlier I wouldn't of played off the 5ball in doing it. If I were Cliff I would softly roll into the 14ball and try to position the cue ball on the 5ball, here's where you have to put your trust in the roll of the table. If he can position the cue ball on the 5ball Richie will then be in deep trouble.

I also like coming off the 2ball like Dudley drew up, but that hit is difficult. If you come off the 2ball it should be hit with the speed to return to the top left side of the table, but again, it's a tough hit and you could possibly scratch in either the bottom right or top left pocket.
Dr. Bill
 
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Dudley

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I also would of positioned the cue ball at the top left but like I said earlier I wouldn't of played off the 5ball in doing it. If I were Cliff I would softly roll into the 14ball and try to position the cue ball on the 5ball, here's where you have to put your trust in the roll of the table. If he can position the cue ball on the 5ball Richie will then be in deep trouble.

I also like coming off the 2ball like Dudley drew up, but that hit is difficult. If you come off the 2ball it should be hit with the speed to return to the top left side of the table, but again, it's a tough hit and you could possibly scratch in either the bottom right or top left pocket.
Dr. Bill
You made a good point re my shot. It is definitely a difficult option to hit well but I think it's worth the risk of scratching. The scratch in the top left corner would be the most troublesome but with the correct cut on the 2 ball, english, and speed it is a very dependable shot imo.

Dud
 

ChrisBanks

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Instead of playing off the 2-ball, Cliff decided to take a foul and just tap the cueball. Both players took 2 fouls each. Cliff then played the shot that Billy was talking about, but he hit it so thickly that he left the table in the following position below:

It is now Richie's shot:
 

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Dudley

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Instead of playing off the 2-ball, Cliff decided to take a foul and just tap the cueball. Both players took 2 fouls each. Cliff then played the shot that Billy was talking about, but he hit it so thickly that he left the table in the following position below:

It is now Richie's shot:
Hitting the shot thick was death. Instead of taking 2 fouls it would have been better to err on the thin side and take a swing at the combo. Even if you miss the ball completely at least you aren't in danger of 3 fouling for another couple shots.

my 2cents of course,

Dudley
 

wincardona

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Instead of playing off the 2-ball, Cliff decided to take a foul and just tap the cueball. Both players took 2 fouls each. Cliff then played the shot that Billy was talking about, but he hit it so thickly that he left the table in the following position below:

It is now Richie's shot:
Richie's a top player and shooting the tricky 2ball is somewhat difficult to play position for either the 4ball bank, or the 9ball. It's a matter of feeling the shot to determine what ball to play position for, some players prefer to not slow spin shot's (playing for the 4ball bank)when they have the option to play a shot that will increase their accuracy with the hit, like the one here playing for the 9ball. The problem here is if you play for the 9ball you have to be more exact with your position or you lose your advantage, but playing for the 4ball bank you should play to get slightly under the bank with the angle to play shape for the 9ball next. If you fall too much under the angle for the 4ball you can then shoot the 4ball into the 1ball and move both balls away. (not too bad at all)

The hit, in terms of accuracy is different from one player to the next, I prefer to stroke the shot like the one here playing for the 9ball, but other players might prefer to slow spin their ball playing for the 4 ball bank. Whatever shot you prefer should be your choice of options, considering the difficulty of the shot....and whats at stake...if you happen to miss the shot.
Dr. Bill
 
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wincardona

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Richie's a top player and shooting the tricky 2ball is somewhat difficult to play position for either the 4ball bank, or the 9ball. It's a matter of feeling the shot to determine what ball to play position for, some players prefer to not slow spin shot's (playing for the 4ball bank)when they have the option to play a shot that will increase their accuracy with the hit, like the one here playing for the 9ball. The problem here is if you play for the 9ball you have to be more exact with your position or you lose your advantage, but playing for the 4ball bank you should play to get slightly under the bank with the angle to play shape for the 9ball next. If you fall too much under the angle for the 4ball you can then shoot the 4ball into the 1ball and move both balls away. (not too bad at all)

The hit, in terms of accuracy is different from one player to the next, I prefer to stroke the shot like the one here playing for the 9ball, but other players might prefer to slow spin their ball playing for the 4 ball bank. Whatever shot you prefer should be your choice of options, considering the difficulty of the shot....and whats at stake...if you happen to miss the shot.
Dr. Bill
Allow me to retract my preference, playing for the 9ball. The distance of the shot suggest that you should play for the 4ball bank, reason being that the speed that you hit the shot with will open the pocket more than the speed that's needed to play for the 9ball. What this means is that the accuracy of the hit is more difficult playing for the 9ball (because of the speed needed to succeed) Understanding this I would then play for the 4ball bank. (the more conservative and reliable shot)

If the shot was a foot closer I would then play for the 9ball for several reasons. I would be more accurate with the hit which will increase my chances of both pocketing the ball, and playing shape with better speed for the 9ball. Dropping on the correct side of the 9ball is crucial for running balls. If you're able to open up the balls off the 9ball then you can play for the 4ball bank at a later time.
Dr. Bill
 
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