Chronology Of A Cheater

Cowboy Dennis

Suspended
Joined
Dec 16, 2008
Messages
11,123
I was watching live (onstream) when this incident happened with SVB trying to steal a ball and a game from Morra at the 2012 DCC Bank tourney. I will need to make two posts to show the pics so you'll have to read the second post in this thread to see the rest of the pics. This is what I originally wrote (http://www.onepocket.org/forum/showthread.php?t=6307 about SVB stealing the ball:
Cowboy Dennis said:
A Funny Thing Happened...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

At the D.C.C. Bank Finals (2nd finals), game 2, SVB was left this position by Johnny Morra and he needed one ball. I didn't see him call a pocket but he fired the two-railer in with speed and everyone applauded so I figured he had called it two-rails and I missed it.

He shook his head a little and took the 3 out of the pocket and looked like he was going to spot it up. Then it looked like he had an epiphany as he got near the footrail. He picked up the 6 & the cueball, or at least the 6 (as best as I can remember) and acted like he had played the 3 ball two-rails and thus won the game. The TD brought over the other balls and SVB started to rack for the next game.

Johnny Morra finally inquired as to which pocket Shane had called for the 3 as he apparently didn't know. The TD got involved now and the three of them talked for a couple of minutes. It was finally decided that SVB had called the 3 ball four-rails. Morra was awarded the game since SVB had disturbed the balls on the table.

Did anyone see this happen? It seems a clear case of cheating to me but why would SVB do that in front of an audience, cameras and a TD? The audience didn't know anything since they applauded when he made the 3. I must be missing something here but I don't know what.
For the most part, what I wrote is correct with a couple of minor mistakes that came from only having seen the event one time. Here is the shot Morra left for SVB. Contrary to what some guy wrote on AZ who said he saw the replay in booth 20 times, the 3 ball is on the spot not below it. Morra just pocketed the 3 in the corner where SVB is standing:

Here is my original rendition of the layout as I remembered it and then the actual layout. Pretty close eh?

svb0.jpg

svb1.Jpeg

SVB, to my viewing even now, did not call the 3 ball anywhere but he jacked up and shot it 2 rails to the corner he is standing at. He then reaches in, takes the 3 ball out, shakes his head a little, and then rolls the 3 downtable towards the spot, so far he's done nothing wrong but the audience is applauding wildly thinking he played the ball 2 rails:

svb2.Jpeg

When he gets right about here he looks directly at Morra and nods a little as if to say "yes, that's where I played it". The 3 ball is still actually rolling towards the spot at this point, that's how quickly SVB made up his mind to cheat:

svb3.Jpeg

Only after getting confirmation from SVB does Morra stand up and takes his balls to the table, TD Schuman does the same with the balls SVB had in his tray. At this point the cueball & 6 ball are still undisturbed and the 3 hasn't been spotted up at all. SVB goes to his break cue figuring he fooled everybody:

svb4.1.Jpeg


The next couple of pics are in the next post.

Dennis
 

Cowboy Dennis

Suspended
Joined
Dec 16, 2008
Messages
11,123
Morra & Shuman put balls on table after SVB fakes them out:

svb5.Jpeg

NOBODY to this point has touched the cueball or the 6 ball until SVB grabs the 6 to rack the balls up:

svb6.Jpeg

Finally Morra comes over and makes inquiry as to whether or not SVB called the 3 ball two-rails. SVB says "what, I can't hear you" (I just made that part up).

svb7.Jpeg

After the TD gets involved it ends up being a full 2 minutes from the time SVB pocketed the 3 till he admits he's a liar and goes and sits down. Anyone who thinks this was a "blip" or a quick brain fart is an idiot. Let me make this perfectly clear to you nuthuggers: SVB admitted to the TD that he called the ball 4 rails and made it 2 rails and tried to take credit for the win.

CapturedPicture_1.Jpeg

As soon as SVB pocketed the 3 ball co-commentator Mark Wilson said:"He did not play that shot, just so you know."

TD Schuman said later:"Shane called his shot 4 rails, he made it 2 rails, so the ball shouldn't count but then he picked up the balls as if the game was over. That's loss of game."

Danny DiLiberto said in part:"He was bluffing, he wanted everyone to be convinced he played it. I'm here to call it the way I see it."

SVB is a cheater, liar, thief and a general all-around dishonest person to do this. Anyone who would defend or excuse or try to minimalize his actions is a coward.

John Brumback, don't bother getting back to us after you discuss this incident with SVB, I knew what happened that night and now that I've seen the DVD I know for certain that I was correct.

Dennis
 

fred bentivegna

Verified Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2005
Messages
6,690
quote Dennis: SVB says "What, I can't hear you" (I just made that part up).:heh:heh:heh

Cold blooded. That to me was the deepest dig in your whole presentation. It got a long, sick laugh out of me.

Beard
 

John Brumback

Verified Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2010
Messages
1,747
So I guess the dvds are out.Still wating on mine:frus

Listen here hotshot.I'm not buddys with SVB.Only talked to him a couple times in my life.What do you think I'm going to do,run to SVB and say...hey look there's this Cowboy guy on the internet And he's running your name through the mud.( I know,I know,you could care less If I did) Nah,that's not me.( I could care less either way) I'm sure as hell not one of them nuthuggers either, as you like to call them.

Now with all that out of the way,I will say you were right all the time.
I figured you were cause you don't miss much and now you have all the proof
in the world to show the nuthuggers that he did flatout try to cheat and got caught,redhanded!!!:eek: (I say you should call each and every bankshot,but that's just me) Can't for the life of me think why I said that,but I did.hehe

One little thing I was wondering..now that you found all this new evidence,Is this...Did John Morra know exactly what was happening and just stall around till SVB raked the balls and lose the game for himself (svb). He's (John M.) a pretty sharp kid,I do know that.

PS:You pissed me off a little.:lol Yeah I know you could care less.
Oh and thanks for thinking of me:p John B.
 

SJDinPHX

Suspended
Joined
Dec 7, 2007
Messages
9,226
So I guess the dvds are out.Still wating on mine:frus
One little thing I was wondering..now that you found all this new evidence,Is this...Did John Morra know exactly what was happening and just stall around till SVB raked the balls and lose the game for himself (svb). He's (John M.) a pretty sharp kid,I do know that.

PS:You pissed me off a little.:lol Yeah I know you could care less.
Oh and thanks for thinking of me:p John B.
John,

Haven't you figured it out yet ???..RBL is a "Hatfield", and SVB is a "McCoy"..:p :p :p
 

petie

Verified Member
Joined
Oct 2, 2005
Messages
3,314
I haven't seen the DVD or the live stream but I do have one question. How hard did he hit it? To make it 4 rails you have to give it a pretty good poke. Did he hit it hard enough to go 4 rails?
 

John Brumback

Verified Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2010
Messages
1,747
I haven't seen the DVD or the live stream but I do have one question. How hard did he hit it? To make it 4 rails you have to give it a pretty good poke. Did he hit it hard enough to go 4 rails?
Petie,I'm not 100% sure,but I think they said he hit it about warp speed.(hard)
What I can't figure out is why he didn't just shoot it straight back. 2 or 4 from where he was,was probably 1 out of 100,imo.John B.
 

SactownTom

Moderator
Joined
May 31, 2004
Messages
813
TD/Ref Ken Shuman made the correct call under the circumstances.
Credit John Morra for standing up and asking the tough questions.

No credit to SVB, none at all... the game was lost after SVB tried to take it.

Very poor sportsmanship. Cheating, lying and disrespect for the game and players for SVB to try to pull this crap.

Where is the player's association? Wouldn't a player that openly gets caught cheating/lying get fined? suspended? punished a lot more than ONE game...

Unforgivable!!!!!

Is this what Cowboy Dennis wanted someone to post in response?

Is it common for all professional pool players to accept what is given to them and not question it? "never look a gift horse in the mouth"

This happens in pool a lot, it's not that big of a deal. But, apparently it is to some people. :lol
 

Cowboy Dennis

Suspended
Joined
Dec 16, 2008
Messages
11,123
So I guess the dvds are out.Still wating on mine:frus

Listen here hotshot.I'm not buddys with SVB.Only talked to him a couple times in my life.What do you think I'm going to do,run to SVB and say...hey look there's this Cowboy guy on the internet And he's running your name through the mud.( I know,I know,you could care less If I did) Nah,that's not me.( I could care less either way) I'm sure as hell not one of them nuthuggers either, as you like to call them.

Now with all that out of the way,I will say you were right all the time.
I figured you were cause you don't miss much and now you have all the proof
in the world to show the nuthuggers that he did flatout try to cheat and got caught,redhanded!!!:eek: (I say you should call each and every bankshot,but that's just me) Can't for the life of me think why I said that,but I did.hehe

One little thing I was wondering..now that you found all this new evidence,Is this...Did John Morra know exactly what was happening and just stall around till SVB raked the balls and lose the game for himself (svb). He's (John M.) a pretty sharp kid,I do know that.

PS:You pissed me off a little.:lol Yeah I know you could care less.
Oh and thanks for thinking of me:p John B.
Dear Catfish Breath,

If you could read & comprehend the english language as well as you catch fish that nobody wants you would know that what I wrote about "nuthuggers" was not directed at you but at the morons who wrote things like this:

Here are just a few of the comments made concerning SVB's cheating:

...just had a moment...

...made a mistake in the heat of the moment...

...a momentary lapse of morals & good judgement...

...acted irresponsibly...

...a lapse in judgement...

...made an attempt to cheat (but didn't actually cheat since he got caught(my words))...

...made a mistake...

...brain farted...

...error in judgement...


And last but not least, one of my favorite spineless posts from Jay Helfert, what an idiot:

Let's just say Shane made a mistake and lesson learned. And let it go at that. I too like Shane a lot and think he is a great representative for American pool, but even he can make a mistake. Hopefully he learns from this experience that he will always be in the spotlight and people watch everything he does closely (on or off the table!), just like any other public figure. If it had happened to almost any other player on an outside table we'd probably never hear about it.




Now to answer your question about Morra's intent. First of all, what does it matter whether he play-acted or not? SVB is doing the cheating here but I'll show what I think happened from the "tale of the tape".
Secondly, Morra presumably had lost the game so he could only gain from that point on so maybe he knew what he was doing.

Here's what I think happened & the time from the DVD:

00:50:41 One second after SVB gives Morra a nod as if to confirm that's where he played the 3 ball Morra reaches for his balls to return them to the table:

svb1.Jpeg

00:50:49 SVB grabs the 6 ball as Morra sits down:

svb2.Jpeg

00:50:52 Morra seems to be listening to someone on the sideline, he's not watching SVB:

svb3.Jpeg

00:50:56 Morra returns to question SVB:

svb4.Jpeg

At 00:50:40 SVB gives Morra a nod to confirm that's where he played the 3 ball. 16 seconds later Morra returns to the table to question SVB. Morra was told something by someone on the sideline before he returned to the table. I think someone pointed the situation out to him but he could've known what he was doing all along too. Again, it doesn't matter if Morra let SVB hang himself does it? SVB put his head in the noose all by himself.

He pretended to win a game that he fully knew he didn't win.


Cowboy "Zapruder" Dennis
 

Cowboy Dennis

Suspended
Joined
Dec 16, 2008
Messages
11,123
TD/Ref Ken Shuman made the correct call under the circumstances.
Credit John Morra for standing up and asking the tough questions.

No credit to SVB, none at all... the game was lost after SVB tried to take it.

Very poor sportsmanship. Cheating, lying and disrespect for the game and players for SVB to try to pull this crap.

Where is the player's association? Wouldn't a player that openly gets caught cheating/lying get fined? suspended? punished a lot more than ONE game...

Unforgivable!!!!!

Is this what Cowboy Dennis wanted someone to post in response?

Is it common for all professional pool players to accept what is given to them and not question it? "never look a gift horse in the mouth"

This happens in pool a lot, it's not that big of a deal. But, apparently it is to some people. :lol
Cowboy Dennis doesn't give much of a damn what you or anyone else writes or thinks about anything. Many people do care about players cheating in any sport.

Dennis
 

SactownTom

Moderator
Joined
May 31, 2004
Messages
813
Gee Dennis, I am somewhat confused. I do 'care' more than most players, I just find it difficult to see you so determined to inform everyone about SVB's unforgivable lying and cheating. I get the point if that is all you wanted to do, but you seem to have another agenda I am not getting.

Tom

Cowboy Dennis doesn't give much of a damn what you or anyone else writes or thinks about anything. Many people do care about players cheating in any sport.

Dennis
 

Cowboy Dennis

Suspended
Joined
Dec 16, 2008
Messages
11,123
Gee Dennis, I am somewhat confused. I do 'care' more than most players, I just find it difficult to see you so determined to inform everyone about SVB's unforgivable lying and cheating. I get the point if that is all you wanted to do, but you seem to have another agenda I am not getting.

Tom
Tom,

People get quite confused by others who don't have an agenda. You are so used to being around people with agendas that you seem to think I have one. I don't. I said in the other (original) thread that I would post the photos when I received the DVD's from AccuStats. That's what I've done.

Is there something wrong in your mind with me pointing out SVB's cheating? If this hadn't been on film it would've been forgotten already or just a distant rumor. I don't like cheaters anywhere much less in a poolroom. I will point them out anytime I see them. I have written on this site about Buddy Hall and the others dumping a tournament, I've written about players dumping backers and I'll continue to write about things like this. I simply have no use for liars or cheaters.

Nobody has started a thread anywhere that I know of discussing this incident. The two threads on the All-Zaniness site that discussed it were started for other reasons.

Maybe if SVB made a formal, public apology to his fans and to John Morra I could forgive and move on but that's not going to happen. He knows that it's already been forgotten by the few people who knew about it anyway, why should he bring it up? That's why I do.

P.S. Tom, I don't mince words or equivocate in any way, I write what I think & feel and I don't care who likes it or doesn't. How I could have a hidden agenda would be a mystery to anyone here I would think.

Dennis
 
Last edited:

John Brumback

Verified Member
Joined
Dec 6, 2010
Messages
1,747
Dear Catfish Breath,

If you could read & comprehend the english language as well as you catch fish that nobody wants you would know that what I wrote about "nuthuggers" was not directed at you but at the morons who wrote things like this:

Here are just a few of the comments made concerning SVB's cheating:

...just had a moment...

...made a mistake in the heat of the moment...

...a momentary lapse of morals & good judgement...

...acted irresponsibly...

...a lapse in judgement...

...made an attempt to cheat (but didn't actually cheat since he got caught(my words))...

...made a mistake...

...brain farted...

...error in judgement...


And last but not least, one of my favorite spineless posts from Jay Helfert, what an idiot:

Let's just say Shane made a mistake and lesson learned. And let it go at that. I too like Shane a lot and think he is a great representative for American pool, but even he can make a mistake. Hopefully he learns from this experience that he will always be in the spotlight and people watch everything he does closely (on or off the table!), just like any other public figure. If it had happened to almost any other player on an outside table we'd probably never hear about it.




Now to answer your question about Morra's intent. First of all, what does it matter whether he play-acted or not? SVB is doing the cheating here but I'll show what I think happened from the "tale of the tape".
Secondly, Morra presumably had lost the game so he could only gain from that point on so maybe he knew what he was doing.

Here's what I think happened & the time from the DVD:

00:50:41 One second after SVB gives Morra a nod as if to confirm that's where he played the 3 ball Morra reaches for his balls to return them to the table:

View attachment 6032

00:50:49 SVB grabs the 6 ball as Morra sits down:

View attachment 6033

00:50:52 Morra seems to be listening to someone on the sideline, he's not watching SVB:

View attachment 6034

00:50:56 Morra returns to question SVB:

View attachment 6035

At 00:50:40 SVB gives Morra a nod to confirm that's where he played the 3 ball. 16 seconds later Morra returns to the table to question SVB. Morra was told something by someone on the sideline before he returned to the table. I think someone pointed the situation out to him but he could've known what he was doing all along too. Again, it doesn't matter if Morra let SVB hang himself does it? SVB put his head in the noose all by himself.

He pretended to win a game that he fully knew he didn't win.


Cowboy "Zapruder" Dennis
Oh ok,Man your good.throw my idea out.I don't think John was playing it out Like I thought he might have been doing.Least the evidence you are showing appears that is not the case,Uh? And yes your right it doesn't and wouldn't have and shouldn't have mattered anyway.I hope the worst we do is get caught not calling a foul:lol Dude,it's not looking good for ole svb.I will watch him very close if and when I'm playing him from now on.That does suck that he really did try that.I think I said somewhere around here,to trust no one on the pool table.Ya think that's a good example,people?? Wow is all I can think of right now.John B.

PS:HEY that hurts,talking bout my fish like that.That's just mean.If ya cut the red meat out,their the best fish you ever had!!! And they put up a good fight too!!:mad:
 

Cowboy Dennis

Suspended
Joined
Dec 16, 2008
Messages
11,123
PS:HEY that hurts,talking bout my fish like that.That's just mean.If ya cut the red meat out,their the best fish you ever had!!! And they put up a good fight too!!:mad:
O.K., I'll take back the fish comment, I don't want to hurt your feelers:).

RBL
 

Cowboy Dennis

Suspended
Joined
Dec 16, 2008
Messages
11,123
quote Dennis: SVB says "What, I can't hear you" (I just made that part up).:heh:heh:heh

Cold blooded. That to me was the deepest dig in your whole presentation. It got a long, sick laugh out of me.

Beard
Funny as it is Freddy that is what SVB did when JM first asked him the question. He put his finger to his ear to indicate that he hadn't heard him.

P.S. I know SVB is hearing-impaired but he didn't have any problems hearing the applause when he made the 3 in the wrong pocket. That sound made him "take a shot".

Dennis
 

SactownTom

Moderator
Joined
May 31, 2004
Messages
813
So your only agenda is to 'OUT' all the cheaters you can and let everyone know what, where and when they committed the offense.

I can understand that, but why the comments about 'nut huggers' and so defensive about other peoples opinions. Yours is the only opinion that you can share. Others in this forum have the right to share theirs also. Correct or just plain out Dumb, it is their opinion.

I'll always defend anyone's right to have an opinion, even yours. But, I don't agree about the derogatory comments you seem to spew in advance of any responses.

I get that SVB cheated, lied and IMO should have been DQ'd on the spot.



Tom,

People get quite confused by others who don't have an agenda. You are so used to being around people with agendas that you seem to think I have one. I don't. I said in the other (original) thread that I would post the photos when I received the DVD's from AccuStats. That's what I've done.

Is there something wrong in your mind with me pointing out SVB's cheating? If this hadn't been on film it would've been forgotten already or just a distant rumor. I don't like cheaters anywhere much less in a poolroom. I will point them out anytime I see them. I have written on this site about Buddy Hall and the others dumping a tournament, I've written about players dumping backers and I'll continue to write about things like this. I simply have no use for liars or cheaters.

Nobody has started a thread anywhere that I know of discussing this incident. The two threads on the All-Zaniness site that discussed it were started for other reasons.

Maybe if SVB made a formal, public apology to his fans and to John Morra I could forgive and move on but that's not going to happen. He knows that it's already been forgotten by the few people who knew about it anyway, why should he bring it up? That's why I do.

Dennis
 

Cowboy Dennis

Suspended
Joined
Dec 16, 2008
Messages
11,123
So your only agenda is to 'OUT' all the cheaters you can and let everyone know what, where and when they committed the offense.

I can understand that, but why the comments about 'nut huggers' and so defensive about other peoples opinions. Yours is the only opinion that you can share. Others in this forum have the right to share theirs also. Correct or just plain out Dumb, it is their opinion.

I'll always defend anyone's right to have an opinion, even yours. But, I don't agree about the derogatory comments you seem to spew in advance of any responses.

I get that SVB cheated, lied and IMO should have been DQ'd on the spot.
Tom,

Did you read the original post I made when this incident first happened? I started that thread minutes after the final match ended (to my recollection). Nobody had yet made comments in defense of SVB here or on the AZ site. The comments I quoted all came from people here or on AZ in defense of SVB. I didn't go on "attack" mode or anything first, I responded to people who defended SVB's actions. There's a difference to me. There were no "nuthugger" comments by me until the nuthuggers started defending SVB.

My comments have not been "spewed in advance of any responses", my comments were made months ago in response to SVB's nuthuggers.

Let me ask you a serious question since you are interested in my motives: If you had seen this incident would you have started a thread commenting on it? Would you post pics, if available, to show what happened? If I didn't do it then tell me who would have done it. Even people who saw it didn't believe it and made excuses for SVB.

I've done it because nobody else did and probably nobody else would.

Dennis
 

Scrzbill

Verified Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2011
Messages
3,518
Tom,

People get quite confused by others who don't have an agenda. You are so used to being around people with agendas that you seem to think I have one. I don't. I said in the other (original) thread that I would post the photos when I received the DVD's from AccuStats. That's what I've done.

Is there something wrong in your mind with me pointing out SVB's cheating? If this hadn't been on film it would've been forgotten already or just a distant rumor. I don't like cheaters anywhere much less in a poolroom. I will point them out anytime I see them. I have written on this site about Buddy Hall and the others dumping a tournament, I've written about players dumping backers and I'll continue to write about things like this. I simply have no use for liars or cheaters.

Nobody has started a thread anywhere that I know of discussing this incident. The two threads on the All-Zaniness site that discussed it were started for other reasons.

Maybe if SVB made a formal, public apology to his fans and to John Morra I could forgive and move on but that's not going to happen. He knows that it's already been forgotten by the few people who knew about it anyway, why should he bring it up? That's why I do.

Dennis
There is an article in Cue Sports journal which Ken Shuman gives an entirely different perspective from your accusations of lying, cheating. What's the difference between this and not calling a foul on yourself when you foul. If you don't call fouls on yourself when there is a foul, then there is no difference making a fouled shot. If one is cheating, the other is. A foul is a foul. Calling a ball four rails, making it two rails, and either deliberately or not claiming a good shot is a loss of turn. Raking the balls is a loss of game. I know I am the only person on the site that has called one thing and shot something else. I am sure Beard has never thought one thing and called something else either. You can show all the blurbs of videos you want, but until you can read someones thoughts, its just rabid speculation and defamation to call this a "chronology of a cheater". Are you going to apologize and make a formal apology for calling him a cheat and a liar? No! Your self righteousness moralizing without any facts is disgusting. If you persist in calling SVB a cheater, liar, then you are calling Cue Sports magazine, Ken Shuman, liars and cheaters also. I am sure you will come back with more unfounded personal defamations of me, then I consider the source.:cool::cool:
 

Cowboy Dennis

Suspended
Joined
Dec 16, 2008
Messages
11,123
There is an article in Cue Sports journal which Ken Shuman gives an entirely different perspective from your accusations of lying, cheating. What's the difference between this and not calling a foul on yourself when you foul. If you don't call fouls on yourself when there is a foul, then there is no difference making a fouled shot. If one is cheating, the other is. A foul is a foul. Calling a ball four rails, making it two rails, and either deliberately or not claiming a good shot is a loss of turn. Raking the balls is a loss of game. I know I am the only person on the site that has called one thing and shot something else. I am sure Beard has never thought one thing and called something else either. You can show all the blurbs of videos you want, but until you can read someones thoughts, its just rabid speculation and defamation to call this a "chronology of a cheater". Are you going to apologize and make a formal apology for calling him a cheat and a liar? No! Your self righteousness moralizing without any facts is disgusting. If you persist in calling SVB a cheater, liar, then you are calling Cue Sports magazine, Ken Shuman, liars and cheaters also. I am sure you will come back with more unfounded personal defamations of me, then I consider the source.:cool::cool:
Bill,

You are missing a major point: SVB finally admitted to Schuman & Morra that he called the ball 4 rails. Schuman called that out to the audience. It's on the DVD. That's SVB admitting being a liar right there in front of everybody.

P.S. Schuman was taken in by SVB's act also, that's why he carried the balls from SVB's tray and dumped them on the table. Schuman is an employee and if he want's to continue being one he probably won't attack SVB.

Are we running low on meds Bill?

Dennis
 
Top