Can't see the forest for the trees.

[wincardona]

Danny Smith


It is what it is, trying to make something else out of it by speculating is only fooling your self. Chris Gentile is a very strong one pocket player, that has never been questioned, but he can be beaten. Gentile is a very smart player and plays to his strengths when able to, however, there are players (believe it or not) who also posses a strong game as well and are allowed and capable of beating strong players in spite of the ..so called traditional correct way to play. What's correct for one isn't necessarily correct for all, you count your money at the end of the match and the player with the most money is the winner..every thing else is just talk. Style of play should be respected regardless of the style you play..to me it's more about winning then..why he lost. It's easy to sit back and be a result player and correct a players play after the match is over, then make assertions on why he lost..or he should of done things differently..blah..blah..blah. Then suggest that the reason he lost is because he was a tired player..really...When it gets to that kind of speculating it should be a ..done deal. period.

Danny Smith is also a very strong player and people are starting to realize that even more today then yesterday, in spite of his..so called..unstable style of play. His game is consistently strong enough to beat players like Darren Appleton, a world champion in every discipline except one pocket, however, he did finish second in the US Open One Pocket Championship to VanBoening in Vegas. He also beat Richie Richeson, quite easily if I remember correctly, certainly no easy task. Richie plays a very strong game and has beaten every top player with the exception of the truly upper echelon players, and we all know who they are. Danny then beat a very strong and upcoming Josh Roberts, who by the way beat Chris Gentile, and he also played Justin Hall to a stand still. Josh is no joke and neither is Hall. Jeremy Jones is considered technically to be one of the strongest movers in the game, Jeremy gave Richeson 9/8 in Kty. and beat him easily, he also gave Josh Roberts 9/8 in Vegas and again won easily, however, when he played Danny, again, Danny won easily. In 2013 at the Derby Jeremy tried to give Danny 9/8 and lost, no contest. But for some strange reason all of this went seemingly unnoticed, maybe it's because Danny plays an unorthodox type of game..or maybe it's because all of his opponents play...supposedly.. a more solid game. Or just maybe we ..can't see the forest for the trees.

Dr. Bill

 

[One pocket Smitty]

Dr. Bill, I have to agree with you about Danny's style of play. I watched him down at Legends in Sept. and he would come with a shot no one thought about and then just run out. I was very impressed.--Smitty

 

[Island Drive]

What's also a big factor, and this happened to me during my move to CA in 76-81. Because of my work ethic, commitment and if I wasn't workin' or sleeping all I was doing was gambling and didn't lose during those years.

Once I totally committed myself to the game, I improved every two weeks, just a little for two years, till I peaked, because of poor fundamentals.

I made the La pool rooms a round robin affair, and made a loop from Long Beach, to Palos Verdes, to up the coast and then downtown La and back. When I returned to each room a couple weeks later, I was Always better than the last time I was there, they could never truly get a read on me during those years. Danny may be in the same situation, he may be committing more to the game, because his rewards (like Shane) are proof in the pudding. When your at that age, your a dangerous opponent, because YOU are the only one aware it's taking place, and that's sweeeeeeeeeet.

 

[JAM]

There's a lot of "results pickers" when it comes to who's the best.

Billy Incardona hit the nail on the head. At the end of the day, the guy who's pocketing the most money is the winner.

Tin cups won in pool tournaments don't pay the rent. You can't even buy a cup of coffee at Starbucks with a tin cup.

 

[BRLongArm]

The man in the Arena

The man in the Arena

Strangely appropriate for this topic: For those of you not familiar, I am sure it will become a favorite:

It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.

-Theodore Roosevelt

 

[Fast Lenny]

Seems to me we should see him in the box against Frost before the year is up. I think it will come to that soon.

 

[Artie Bodendorfer]

There's a lot of "results pickers" when it comes to who's the best.

Billy Incardona hit the nail on the head. At the end of the day, the guy who's pocketing the most money is the winner.

Tin cups won in pool tournaments don't pay the rent. You can't even buy a cup of coffee at Starbucks with a tin cup.

All I can say the player who wins. Is the best for that day. Stay in action and keep playing. And your day will come. When I use to watch two great players play.

I would ask the winner how he felt about winning. And his reply would not be about how much he one. It would be how good he felt and all the pressure and stress was all gone. And he could relax and feel good about himself. Let the player tell you what his greatest moment was in the match. And let they winner enjoy his victory.

 

[androd]

Danny Smith
Danny then beat a very strong and upcoming Josh Roberts, who by the way beat Chris Gentile, and he also played Justin Hall to a stand still. Josh is no joke and neither is Hall. Jeremy Jones is considered technically to be one of the strongest movers in the game, Jeremy gave Richeson 9/8 in Kty. and beat him easily, he also gave Josh Roberts 9/8 in Vegas and again won easily, however, when he played Danny, again, Danny won easily. In 2013 at the Derby Jeremy tried to give Danny 9/8 and lost, no contest. But for some strange reason all of this went seemingly unnoticed, maybe it's because Danny plays an unorthodox type of game..or maybe it's because all of his opponents play...supposedly.. a more solid game. Or just maybe we ..can't see the forest for the trees.

Dr. Bill

Well it's often like boxers, some styles give some people trouble, and others handle them well. This maybe more prevalent among weaker players.
I play a fellow even who has trouble with me.( he's loser ) He gets the break from someone who gives me 10/7 and wins most every time.
Styles matter.
Rod.

 

[beatle]

best post ever rod about playing styles. and changing your style to beat your opponent is one of the keys to winning. against me all a player has to do is slow the game down and move the balls up table.
if he plays that style i will generally quit as i dont want to waste all day on just a few games. but he may get ahead of me early on and steal one or two before i wise up and run. unless i am totally robbing him and its worth it.
i will turn the tables and do it myself to someone like me or someone that doesnt play that part of the game well. if you hit your long rail and two and three rail banks well then you want you end game played with the cueball down table.

 

[usblues]

Exactly Beatle....

Exactly Beatle....

.......well said Rod,couldnt agree more about styles.....

 

[LSJohn]

Well it's often like boxers, some styles give some people trouble, and others handle them well. This maybe more prevalent among weaker players.
I play a fellow even who has trouble with me.( he's loser ) He gets the break from someone who gives me 10/7 and wins most every time.
Styles matter.
Rod.

There's a lot more than I know about the advantages or disadvantages of one style against another, but when I play a new opponent, the first thing I want to find out is how he feels about distance. Some guys will shoot long shots they shouldn't, and some will turn down some they should shoot. Even a C player like me can use that info to great advantage (makes me a C+ )

 

[Island Drive]

All I can say the player who wins. Is the best for that day. Stay in action and keep playing. And your day will come. When I use to watch two great players play.

I would ask the winner how he felt about winning. And his reply would not be about how much he one. It would be how good he felt and all the pressure and stress was all gone. And he could relax and feel good about himself. Let the player tell you what his greatest moment was in the match. And let they winner enjoy his victory.

Listening to Sergio Garcia's interview yesterday after his final round was finished....came down to. He knew he couldn't close the deal THAT DAY. He said he played ok but he's still learning and hopefully will improve.

 

[straightback]

There's a lot more than I know about the advantages or disadvantages of one style against another, but when I play a new opponent, the first thing I want to find out is how he feels about distance. Some guys will shoot long shots they shouldn't, and some will turn down some they should shoot. Even a C player like me can use that info to great advantage (makes me a C+ )

John, I do the same thing. I will give a man a long shot off the head rag until he burns me once or twice. As in a ll things, I also watch his demeanor, how he feels about the shot. Did he put a good stroke on it? Did he pop out of his chair to shoot it? If he made it, did he get lucky?

While the match between Chris and Danny was pretty boring, it was useful for developing this conversation about distance as a strategy and weapon.

While I'm thinking about this, it was Grady who commented that the only way to beat an attacking style like Danny's is to play the same style but better.

 

[LSJohn]

While I'm thinking about this, it was Grady who commented that the only way to beat an attacking style like Danny's is to play the same style but better.

Grady deserved his title "The Professor" but he wasn't always right. I'd wager that Artie would contest that statement, and I'd tend to agree with Artie. There's some special strength in locking up a strong offensive player. If you manage to do it well, his offensive ability will usually diminish.

 

[straightback]

Grady deserved his title "The Professor" but he wasn't always right. I'd wager that Artie would contest that statement, and I'd tend to agree with Artie. There's some special strength in locking up a strong offensive player. If you manage to do it well, his offensive ability will usually diminish.

It's funny you said that, because I almost stated at the end that perhaps Artie would have something to say about that.

As a counterpoint to your statement, I would say: There's some special strength in forcing a defensive player to shoot, having him miss, and letting that marinate in his brain. Exhibit A? Gentile the other night.

Having said that, I agree basically with what you are saying, and I will offer some wisdom offered by the great Billy Incardona during the famous '99 DCC matchup between Reyes and Varner. After Varner stacks Reyes good several shots in a row, Billy observed, "Reyes breaks down just like any other player. It might take a while, but he will break down."

I will say that Danny Smith's strategy, which in this regard is similar to Frost, would appear to lend itself more to an ahead/gambling type situation than a short race such as in a tournament.

Another huge thing at work in our discussion about this match and distance is a player's ability to stay in stroke for those long shots, which, at least for me, is tough. Like most good players, there really isn't a shot I cannot hit - inside, outside, center ball, extreme english, long, far, whatever. HOWEVER, to be cold after bunting for a while and having to bring that same shot is an entirely different matter, and I think that is a skill that is important to have for one pocket.

The only good advice I have been given on that point is to deliver that perfect stance and stroke on every shot. A lot of bunt shots you can get away with poor fundamentals, but this tends to erode your powers when you have to bring that come shot. (Sorry, the sports world had it before the adult entertainment industry.)

 

[lll]

It's funny you said that, because I almost stated at the end that perhaps Artie would have something to say about that.

As a counterpoint to your statement, I would say: There's some special strength in forcing a defensive player to shoot, having him miss, and letting that marinate in his brain. Exhibit A? Gentile the other night.

Having said that, I agree basically with what you are saying, and I will offer some wisdom offered by the great Billy Incardona during the famous '99 DCC matchup between Reyes and Varner. After Varner stacks Reyes good several shots in a row, Billy observed, "Reyes breaks down just like any other player. It might take a while, but he will break down."

I will say that Danny Smith's strategy, which in this regard is similar to Frost, would appear to lend itself more to an ahead/gambling type situation than a short race such as in a tournament.

Another huge thing at work in our discussion about this match and distance is a player's ability to stay in stroke for those long shots, which, at least for me, is tough. Like most good players, there really isn't a shot I cannot hit - inside, outside, center ball, extreme english, long, far, whatever. HOWEVER, to be cold after bunting for a while and having to bring that same shot is an entirely different matter, and I think that is a skill that is important to have for one pocket.

The only good advice I have been given on that point is to deliver that perfect stance and stroke on every shot. A lot of bunt shots you can get away with poor fundamentals, but this tends to erode your powers when you have to bring that come shot. (Sorry, the sports world had it before the adult entertainment industry.)

ive read that too
if you hit every shot as if it was the GAME BALL it helps you when you after multiple bunts have to come up with the shot
i wish i knew how the straight pool players can sit in the chair for half an hour
get up and come with the shot....

 

[Cory in dc]

It's funny you said that, because I almost stated at the end that perhaps Artie would have something to say about that.

As a counterpoint to your statement, I would say: There's some special strength in forcing a defensive player to shoot, having him miss, and letting that marinate in his brain. Exhibit A? Gentile the other night.

Having said that, I agree basically with what you are saying, and I will offer some wisdom offered by the great Billy Incardona during the famous '99 DCC matchup between Reyes and Varner. After Varner stacks Reyes good several shots in a row, Billy observed, "Reyes breaks down just like any other player. It might take a while, but he will break down."

I will say that Danny Smith's strategy, which in this regard is similar to Frost, would appear to lend itself more to an ahead/gambling type situation than a short race such as in a tournament.

Another huge thing at work in our discussion about this match and distance is a player's ability to stay in stroke for those long shots, which, at least for me, is tough. Like most good players, there really isn't a shot I cannot hit - inside, outside, center ball, extreme english, long, far, whatever. HOWEVER, to be cold after bunting for a while and having to bring that same shot is an entirely different matter, and I think that is a skill that is important to have for one pocket.

The only good advice I have been given on that point is to deliver that perfect stance and stroke on every shot. A lot of bunt shots you can get away with poor fundamentals, but this tends to erode your powers when you have to bring that come shot. (Sorry, the sports world had it before the adult entertainment industry.)[/QUOTE]

That last bit is some very good advice that I forget all to often.

 

[NH Steve]

It's funny you said that, because I almost stated at the end that perhaps Artie would have something to say about that.

As a counterpoint to your statement, I would say: There's some special strength in forcing a defensive player to shoot, having him miss, and letting that marinate in his brain. Exhibit A? Gentile the other night.

Having said that, I agree basically with what you are saying, and I will offer some wisdom offered by the great Billy Incardona during the famous '99 DCC matchup between Reyes and Varner. After Varner stacks Reyes good several shots in a row, Billy observed, "Reyes breaks down just like any other player. It might take a while, but he will break down."

I will say that Danny Smith's strategy, which in this regard is similar to Frost, would appear to lend itself more to an ahead/gambling type situation than a short race such as in a tournament.

Another huge thing at work in our discussion about this match and distance is a player's ability to stay in stroke for those long shots, which, at least for me, is tough. Like most good players, there really isn't a shot I cannot hit - inside, outside, center ball, extreme english, long, far, whatever. HOWEVER, to be cold after bunting for a while and having to bring that same shot is an entirely different matter, and I think that is a skill that is important to have for one pocket.

The only good advice I have been given on that point is to deliver that perfect stance and stroke on every shot. A lot of bunt shots you can get away with poor fundamentals, but this tends to erode your powers when you have to bring that come shot. (Sorry, the sports world had it before the adult entertainment industry.)

That's a big part of what makes One Pocket the most perfect pool game: Good shooting overcomes good defense -- and vice-versa. <--- with props to Casey Stengel, but this one gets credited to Steve Booth

 

[lfigueroa]

It's funny you said that, because I almost stated at the end that perhaps Artie would have something to say about that.

As a counterpoint to your statement, I would say: There's some special strength in forcing a defensive player to shoot, having him miss, and letting that marinate in his brain. Exhibit A? Gentile the other night.

Having said that, I agree basically with what you are saying, and I will offer some wisdom offered by the great Billy Incardona during the famous '99 DCC matchup between Reyes and Varner. After Varner stacks Reyes good several shots in a row, Billy observed, "Reyes breaks down just like any other player. It might take a while, but he will break down."

I will say that Danny Smith's strategy, which in this regard is similar to Frost, would appear to lend itself more to an ahead/gambling type situation than a short race such as in a tournament.

Another huge thing at work in our discussion about this match and distance is a player's ability to stay in stroke for those long shots, which, at least for me, is tough. Like most good players, there really isn't a shot I cannot hit - inside, outside, center ball, extreme english, long, far, whatever. HOWEVER, to be cold after bunting for a while and having to bring that same shot is an entirely different matter, and I think that is a skill that is important to have for one pocket.

The only good advice I have been given on that point is to deliver that perfect stance and stroke on every shot. A lot of bunt shots you can get away with poor fundamentals, but this tends to erode your powers when you have to bring that come shot. (Sorry, the sports world had it before the adult entertainment industry.)

Your last paragraph is very true.

But I believe that it often goes beyond that in that that's all many players have -- the poor fundamentals. Basically what I'm saying is that a lot of guys get by playing 1pocket on knowledge and a bunt stroke. It's never really a problem of their stroke breaking down because it's already broken. (I mean, if we're really being honest

If an opponent recognizes that, and they have some knowledge of their own, they can almost fire away at will.

Lou Figueroa

 

[NH Steve]

Your last paragraph is very true.

But I believe that it often goes beyond that in that that's all many players have -- the poor fundamentals. Basically what I'm saying is that a lot of guys get by playing 1pocket on knowledge and a bunt stroke. It's never really a problem of their stroke breaking down because it's already broken. (I mean, if we're really being honest

If an opponent recognizes that, and they have some knowledge of their own, they can almost fire away at will.

Lou Figueroa

Sadly, Lou has just described me to a "T" lol