Calling a foul

gulfportdoc

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markgriffin said:
So - with the questions about 'snooze you loose' - or if you had a legitimate reason for not having your eyes on the table.

Do you guys think we should have a ref on the final table? Who would rule on all fouls made?

Would this be a good addition and on which matches should a ref be present.

We cannot have a ref on every table and every shot - but we can on so many of the final matches.

Your thoughts???

mark Griffin
(markg@playcsipool.com)
702-719-7665 office
There didn't seem to be many problems with not having a referee at the vast majority of 1P matches at the DCC, so a referee at each match would not only be impossible, but it would be unnecessary at the US Open 1P.

Also, if the final matches will be streamed or taped, that's going to make it even more unlikely that a player would cheat. I'd recommend having a ref at the final four matches, and, as usual, have refs available for calls when requested by the players in the other matches.

Doc
 

bstroud

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I have always called a foul on myself even if my opponent doesn't see it. It doesn't matter how much you are playing for. It is just the right thing to do.

What if your opponent went to the rest room and told you to keep on shooting and you missed. Would you just keep on shooting? It's the same thing.

Winning by cheating isn't winning at all. How could you stand yourself?


Bill Stroud
 

John Brumback

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Let me try to make this a little more clear. I didn't say anything about stealing balls or fouling the cueball or cheating or going to the bathroom while It's my opp shot or dropping things on the floor or lets see....what else am I'm leaving out? What are you going to do If say you fram In to like 5 or 6 balls but your not real sure If anything made It to the rail or not.What are you going to say...? Well I'm not sure If anything hit the rail or not maybe
I need to spot one up cause I'm not real sure If anything hit a rail after I made contact?? Oh sure. There Is only one way to play.Have a ref every single time you play. Like I said before...You better not wait for ANY and that means ALL PROS to call a foul on themselves. I can't think of one that would.
Is that not a good example? I'm talking about pros, not amatures who play jolly pool. John B.
 

John Brumback

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gulfportdoc said:
Well, a foul is supposed to be called. A foul is a foul, whether or not it's seen by the opponent. Many guys will not call a foul on themselves, and I can certainly see why they wouldn't, especially if there is money on the line.

However, not admitting to a foul will affect some guys pyschologically. In my case it seems as though every time I've not called a foul on myself when I know it was a foul, it seems to have risen up and bit me on the backside later.

I don't know whether it's guilt or "karma", but some guys will end up paying the price. So I think that it depends upon a guy's character and state of mind.

Doc
Hey there Doc. Whenever I'm playing It's going to be for some kind of $.
I don't play Jolly pool. If I call a foul on myself I can't make a ball after that cause I feel like a big ole sucker and I don't like that feeling. On top of that,
I do not cheat,never have never will. John B.
 

sappo

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Last Post On The Subject

Last Post On The Subject

John, I was under the impression that if a player fouled it was his duty to alert his opponent to the foul. If that is the case and it is truely the other players responsibility to see and call the foul then there is nothing wrong with the shooting player not to call the foul.

Since im not a big gambler and since im not a big tournament player, however, even if its not my responsibility to call a foul on myself, i will continue to call it. However if thats not what the rules say then i no longer would frown on a player not calling a foul on himself.

This is my last post on this subject.

I wish you the best at Vegas. Ill be sure to talk to you there. keith
 

John Brumback

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sappo said:
John, I was under the impression that if a player fouled it was his duty to alert his opponent to the foul. If that is the case and it is truely the other players responsibility to see and call the foul then there is nothing wrong with the shooting player not to call the foul.

Since im not a big gambler and since im not a big tournament player, however, even if its not my responsibility to call a foul on myself, i will continue to call it. However if thats not what the rules say then i no longer would frown on a player not calling a foul on himself.

This is my last post on this subject.

I wish you the best at Vegas. Ill be sure to talk to you there. keith
Thank you Sappo,To tell you the truth. I have never seen a rule that says you have to call your own fouls.If that's the way the rule Is written,I have no problem with that at all.I was just trying to make a point about not having someone reffing every match.Thank you for trying to understand. Yes I hope we can set around and chat some.Again,I'm very sorry for sounding so rude.Thank you again,John B.
 

Fast Lenny

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I have always called fouls on myself but have had opponents shoot bad shots and not call fouls on themselves, some are dishonest and some just do not know they have fouled I believe.
 

MARK..HOU TX

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John Brumback said:
Thank you Sappo,To tell you the truth. I have never seen a rule that says you have to call your own fouls.If that's the way the rule Is written,I have no problem with that at all.I was just trying to make a point about not having someone reffing every match.Thank you for trying to understand. Yes I hope we can set around and chat some.Again,I'm very sorry for sounding so rude.Thank you again,John B.
John..I think ya just called a rude foul on yourself :D ..I didn't notice any rudeness
 

Roy Steffensen

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John Brumback said:
Let me try to make this a little more clear. I didn't say anything about stealing balls or fouling the cueball or cheating or going to the bathroom while It's my opp shot or dropping things on the floor or lets see....what else am I'm leaving out? What are you going to do If say you fram In to like 5 or 6 balls but your not real sure If anything made It to the rail or not.What are you going to say...? Well I'm not sure If anything hit the rail or not maybe
I need to spot one up cause I'm not real sure If anything hit a rail after I made contact?? Oh sure. There Is only one way to play.Have a ref every single time you play. Like I said before...You better not wait for ANY and that means ALL PROS to call a foul on themselves. I can't think of one that would.
Is that not a good example? I'm talking about pros, not amatures who play jolly pool. John B.
I've played Efren and Ralf Souquet, and both of them have given me ball in hand because they touched the cueball an I didn't notice.

Hohmann have called foul on himself twice in 10-ball matches, and one of them meant that Manalo kicked him out of the event.

They do it because it is the right thing to do.

I've seen pros doing the opposite too, but that doesn't mean you should do it too...

I'm sorry, John, but I'm a bit dissapointed if you are saying you won't call a foul on yourself.

If we play, and I touch two balls and foul and you don't see it, I will call it, even if it gives you a straight in shot to finish the match.

I would feel bad for a long time if I won knowing that I didn't call foul on myself.
 

Artie Bodendorfer

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Roy Steffensen said:
I've played Efren and Ralf Souquet, and both of them have given me ball in hand because they touched the cueball an I didn't notice.

Hohmann have called foul on himself twice in 10-ball matches, and one of them meant that Manalo kicked him out of the event.

They do it because it is the right thing to do.

I've seen pros doing the opposite too, but that doesn't mean you should do it too...

I'm sorry, John, but I'm a bit dissapointed if you are saying you won't call a foul on yourself.

If we play, and I touch two balls and foul and you don't see it, I will call it, even if it gives you a straight in shot to finish the match.

I would feel bad for a long time if I won knowing that I didn't call foul on myself.
Tell the landlord you lost with dignate when he throws your dignatey ass out off the house,

And people starve too death with dignaty. Dignaty id great. How about rule number one in life. THAT YOU HAVE TO SURVIVE. That comes ahead off dignaty.


And for all those sentamental people dignaty is great. If everyone played by those rules. But I no a lot off waris would have been lost if they would have used dignaty.

And Hitler would have ruled the world. I guess dignaty you can use it for a good excuise and say I lost because I used dignaty.

How can you show dignaty. When you are playing someone. And when its his turn too show dignaty he does the opposite. What does that make you.

Respect is one thing.dignaty with friends is ok. But you have too draw the line some were . Its like its ok too be nice but its not ok too be too nice.

And the nicest people and the people who show dignaty have other reasonsr motaves for doing it. Dignaty is grest. If you want too be a looser.

AS long as you play with respect. And by the rules. Thats all the dignaty you need. And helping someone is different then dignaty.

And tell your backer you lost with dignaty. and he will tell you see you later. You have too much dignaty for me.

And you donot have too loose because off dignaty. And I think you should not shoot any smart shoots. Because the other player cant play. And you should let him win. That will show a lot off dignaty.

Thier are rules and if you play by them thats all the dignaty you need. Thats why the have rules. We live by rules and laws . Not dignaty.

Try dignaty in the court room and see how much time you get. If you ever play at anything. You can say you lost with dignaty and honor.

Tell it too the fighter in the boxing ring. You play by the rules and both players are responsable for watching what the other player does.

That is your integraty in the game. To watch and pay attention so nothing hapines. In a game that you slepte.

And I recomend you have a big money tournement and Call it the Dignity Tournement. Without referes. You will see enough dignaty to last a life time.

Thier are many hungry and sick and homeles people who need your dignaty.

If dignaty is doing the wright thing. Because thats what it means. THen start by helping all the people in the world.

Who need your dignaty. And you will feel real good about what you did you showed dgnaty.

You are not responsable for Ignorenc or stupitity. All the dignity in the world wont help a fool. And you win because off someone elses mistake.

And not making the correct call is a mistake by the player not calling the foul.

So when you play you wont need a reffere. But what about the other player. If you are truly seriousabout dignaty. You need to go and help all the people in the world.

And forget about tournements. and gambling. Using dignaty is a cop out. For fools. I guess you should go and tell the casino. That you cant take this 3 thousand dollars because you bet the other team.

And the clerk gave you the wrong team on the ticket. That would be very nice for you too show your dignaty.
 

Tennessee Joe6

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This is a good topic to be covered in the rules when they are revised. Very few sports have a rule to call infractions on yourself ie., baseball, football, basketball, soccer, etc.
 

Artie Bodendorfer

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Tennessee Joe6 said:
This is a good topic to be covered in the rules when they are revised. Very few sports have a rule to call infractions on yourself ie., baseball, football, basketball, soccer, etc.[/QUOTE

Her is a good rule if you call a foul on yourself. You loose the whole match.
 

bstroud

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Calling a foul on oneself is common in Golf. You are usually the only one that knows but it is what players do. They seem to feel it is the right thing to do.
Palmer did it. Nicklaus did it. Even Hogan.

Perhaps that is one of the reasons it is called "The Greatest Game."

Cheating is NOT winning.

Bill Stroud
 

backplaying

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It depends on who i'm playing. I played a guy from Athens,Al awhile back for 1,000 a game for 52hrs and i was always the type to call fouls on myself, not any more. I went to get a cold drink and while i did he broke and scratched and put the cueball on the rail like he made a perfenct break. I was told a few days later that he fouled over and over when i wasn't looking. Yes, i know i should have been watching and do from now on. I can tell you many many people lost any respect they had for this guy, me included!
 

Dudley

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I understand where the non foul callers are coming from..... However I will always call a foul on myself UNLESS I feel like my opponent wouldn't.


I adjust my level of etiquette to my opponent. I do prefer to call fouls on myself because it seems like the right way to play and the majority of people I play against do also without hesitation.

I think it really comes down to your experience with the people you gamble with.

If your adversary would NEVER call a foul on themselves it would be kind of ridiculous to act differently. That would almost be like giving up a spot.


Dudley
 

Cowboy Dennis

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bstroud said:
Calling a foul on oneself is common in Golf. You are usually the only one that knows but it is what players do. They seem to feel it is the right thing to do.
Palmer did it. Nicklaus did it. Even Hogan.

Perhaps that is one of the reasons it is called "The Greatest Game."

Cheating is NOT winning.

Bill Stroud
Bill,

That is non-responsive to the thread and completely irrelevant. A golfer cannot gain any advantage whatsoever by admitting a foul, a poolplayer can.

Those of you who equate this with cheating, lack of character, lack of integrity, dishonesty, poor morals or anything else along those lines are people who always cause problems for players who know the rules and play within them. SactownTom clearly stated that it is the non-shooters responsibility to call fouls. He said this is in the rules. Play by the rules and you won't have a problem. Why is that so hard for you to do?

John B. also clearly stated that as soon as tournament rules are changed to include a rule whereby a player must call a foul on himself if he fouled, then he will do so.

Dennis
 

backplaying

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I thought i better add that the most well known gambler there is Ricky P and it sure wasn't him. You can't find a better person to play than Ricky.
 

Artie Bodendorfer

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bstroud said:
Calling a foul on oneself is common in Golf. You are usually the only one that knows but it is what players do. They seem to feel it is the right thing to do.
Palmer did it. Nicklaus did it. Even Hogan.

Perhaps that is one of the reasons it is called "The Greatest Game."

Cheating is NOT winning.

Bill Stroud

Bill lets get this clarified this is not cheating. Ok you do not need too make someone feel guilty by makeing it like they are cheating.

If anyone is cheating its the person not making the call. And nobody who does this is not cheating, Its the other persons responsability. Not youres.

You have to protect youself in any game and in life its your responsability.

You think because you called a foul on yourself you did the wright thing. And you are playing someone who has no chance too win. Were is your integraty.

If you feel that way you should never play anyone who playes worse then you. THat will show integraty and cracter.

I play a honest game but for me to call a foul on myself. I have too be playing a person who will do the same thing. Or else I am a fool.

And to say thats cheating is a very poor choice off words.
Jut like some suckers you beat. Should I say you robbed them. You didnt rob nobody.

If they were fools enough too play you and loose thier money. Then you didnt rob them. They gave you thev money. You didnt force them too play.

They had a choice. And the made a loosing no win choice.

And thats what the casinos do every day. And they say its legele because they have a legele liscence too do it.

And people make the choice to play or not too play. If we make the wrong choice we loose. If you make the correct choice we win.

And life is all about choices. Even the women we pick in our relationship. WE are only responsable for our mistakes not the other persons mistakes.

Are we part off the problem? yes we are. But its not up too us too take care off another persons responsability. They need too be held accountabe for not doing what is thier responsability.

And people get away with millions off mistakes a day. Some are costly and some are even detramental.

But a mistake is not cheating or robing anyone. And we cannot be blamed for another persons mestakes.They need to be held accountable for thier mistakes.

Im not this kind off person. But I do need to show the truth and what it realy is.To explain both sides. And you did not cheat to have this done.

Cheating is doing something on pourpose.This was not done on pourpose. It was a mistake your opponent should have seen and called. A mistake. Not cheating. Cheating is doing something on pourpose.

I am saying this for both sides. Not so one side can feel good and the other side feel bad. A mistake is not cheating.
 

beatle

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two sides two ideas of what is right.

clearly if your opponent tells you he will not call fouls on himself and it is your job to do it then that is the parameter of the game. i believe if you feel that way you should inform him of your intentions as many players feel you are obligated to calls fouls on yourself. once informed then it is okay to play that way. tournaments are a different matter.

i guess i also feel that if i must call all his fouls i also have a right to stand over him when he is shooting to watch closely on any questionable shots. goes with the territory.

if i am robbing a guy he can get away with it once in awhile as it also brings him back again. but that is a tactical thing.

if i dont trust a player i watch and expect all things can happen if i look away.

if i know my opponent wont call fouls i watch him as dennis says i also should anyway.
 
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