Calling a foul

[usblues]

Chick

Chick

I saw Chick about 25 years ago at Orchestral hall with RTF,excellent show or shoe as Ed Sullivan used to say,cheers,James

 

[SJDinPHX]

...Did I pay you?

Beard

Even stupider would be to ask, "Did you pay me ?"..(guaranteed answer.. "I sure did")..

 

[John Brumback]

I once called a lot of fouls on myself. But I was drunk at the time and in a chicken coop. Rhode Island Red, Henny Penny, Rooster Cogburn, Chick Corea, those fouls were all over me and I called out to them to get off of me.

Beard

Hey what about Foghorn Leghorn? that would have been bad.
or was foghorn and R I R the same same one? Your crazy Fred,lol
John B.

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

Well John and Artie, we've been called dishonest, having no integrity, untrustworthy, cheaters, undignified, unethical, using semantics, illogical and, last but not least, now we are being called thieves. If I didn't know better I might start to feel bad about myself .

Cowboy "dishonest, no integrity, untrustworthy, cheater, undignified, illogical, thief" Dennis

Thank you! John B.

PS;you remembered all those names??

No, actually John I forgot a couple. If we removed all the posts from people who don't bet nothing and never will there would be less than 20 posts in this thread instead of 186.

P.S. Roy Steffensen is still a hypocritical liar who would use any rule he could find to win a game.

Cowboy "Cheatin' SOB" Dennis

 

[tylerdurden]

I didn't read through the whole thread, but I have gotten heated about this a time or two in my life. I will NOT do that in this thread But, the only point i'd like to make is, I personally think it is terrible for the sport of pool when people call those who do not call fouls on themselves cheats, lacking integrity etc. The rules of pool are simple, an outgoing player doesn't really have any responsibilities (short of maybe spotting a ball or something similar). The one I really hate is "I don't need to cheat to win" or "The day I need to cheat to win is the day I stop playing."

Again, I just hate it when people take the "high-and-mighty" road here and say they call all their fouls, and act like their way is the only way to be honest while playing. I still say this position causes the game harm, because it simply isn't true. If you want to call all your fouls, that is fine.... just don't call people cheaters if they don't see it your way -- read the rules. You are perpetuating a fallacy that hurt the game if you continue to do so. In fact, most of the sportiest players I know would be considered cheats and scumbags if we all followed this poorly conceived philosophy.

 

[John Brumback]

I didn't read through the whole thread, but I have gotten heated about this a time or two in my life. I will NOT do that in this thread But, the only point i'd like to make is, I personally think it is terrible for the sport of pool when people call those who do not call fouls on themselves cheats, lacking integrity etc. The rules of pool are simple, an outgoing player doesn't really have any responsibilities (short of maybe spotting a ball or something similar). The one I really hate is "I don't need to cheat to win" or "The day I need to cheat to win is the day I stop playing."

Again, I just hate it when people take the "high-and-mighty" road here and say they call all their fouls, and act like their way is the only way to be honest while playing. I still say this position causes the game harm, because it simply isn't true. If you want to call all your fouls, that is fine.... just don't call people cheaters if they don't see it your way -- read the rules. You are perpetuating a fallacy that hurt the game if you continue to do so. In fact, most of the sportiest players I know would be considered cheats and scumbags if we all followed this poorly conceived philosophy.[/QUOTE

Best post In the whole thing.Thank you.You could get a job as a reff too.Thanks again.John B.
PS: gald ole cowboy brought this back up.He probably just did It for all the new members.Tip.. for new members,pay attention when In a game,and all will be swell.

 

[Scrzbill]

This is an old post and we went through all of this. We are going to play a game of pool but if you snooze, you lose. Snooze you lose went out with bell bottom pants. Best thing to do is call a foul on every shot? I play by gentlemans rules and if I foul, a ball goes up. You don't want to play like that, play someone else. You may not call it cheating but why play by the rules at all? If the rule is, it is a foul not to hit a rail, then it is a foul, whether you see it or your opponent sees it. One of the worst offenders of this is Strickland. He made a obvious foul last year in a crucial point in a final one pocket game. He claimed no foul because the referee wasn't called. It was an obvious foul. You could say when playing him, you have to call a ref over for every shot. There's a moral hole in someone who thinks avoiding the rules is a good thing.
Why not put a ball on your side your opponent makes by "accident". If he doesn't notice, your ball? I like you John, but this aspect of winning at all cost hurts the integrity of the game.:lol

 

[akrick]

calling fouls

calling fouls

Tap Tap Tap to Scrzbill!!!!!!!

 

[John Brumback]

This is an old post and we went through all of this. We are going to play a game of pool but if you snooze, you lose. Snooze you lose went out with bell bottom pants. Best thing to do is call a foul on every shot? I play by gentlemans rules and if I foul, a ball goes up. You don't want to play like that, play someone else. You may not call it cheating but why play by the rules at all? If the rule is, it is a foul not to hit a rail, then it is a foul, whether you see it or your opponent sees it. One of the worst offenders of this is Strickland. He made a obvious foul last year in a crucial point in a final one pocket game. He claimed no foul because the referee wasn't called. It was an obvious foul. You could say when playing him, you have to call a ref over for every shot. There's a moral hole in someone who thinks avoiding the rules is a good thing.
Why not put a ball on your side your opponent makes by "accident". If he doesn't notice, your ball? I like you John, but this aspect of winning at all cost hurts the integrity of the game.:lol

That's fine.Yeah I don't know why he had to bring this back up.Let me get one thing clear here.I always play by and within the rules.Onemore thing..I know the rules better than most.That helps alot sometimes too.It's funny as I have never been called a cheat In all the pool tournys that I have played In my 30 years of pro pool.So I guess the players understand where I'm coming from.No, what I do and how I do It does not hurt the Integrity of the game.We just have alot of bad rules and can't afford reffs.About stealing balls..that's a whole nother ballgame there.I don't steal either.I hate to brag(they say It aint braggin though If you can back It up) but I'm probably one of the If not the most honest pool players there Is.I don't say win at all costs either,that aint right.Thank you and have a good day,Sir.John B.

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

Yeah I don't know why he had to bring this back up.

Don't blame it on me because you don't have the self-control not to respond to an idiot.

P.S. Watch closely and I'll show you how it's done.

Dennis

 

[Scrzbill]

That's fine.Yeah I don't know why he had to bring this back up.Let me get one thing clear here.I always play by and within the rules.Onemore thing..I know the rules better than most.That helps alot sometimes too.It's funny as I have never been called a cheat In all the pool tournys that I have played In my 30 years of pro pool.So I guess the players understand where I'm coming from.No, what I do and how I do It does not hurt the Integrity of the game.We just have alot of bad rules and can't afford reffs.About stealing balls..that's a whole nother ballgame there.I don't steal either.I hate to brag(they say It aint braggin though If you can back It up) but I'm probably one of the If not the most honest pool players there Is.I don't say win at all costs either,that aint right.Thank you and have a good day,Sir.John B.

John, I wasn't aiming at you. But, I am confused (nothing new there). If the rule says it's a foul not to hit a rail, does the rule say, only if your opponent sees it? The rule, snooze you lose is no where to be found, but growing up in your hometown and playing at Parkmoor, that was the unwritten rule. I didn't like this thread before and I still don't like it. Too many people make to many inferences. Are we still on next Thursday? Five days daddy. Go Niners.

 

[John Brumback]

John, I wasn't aiming at you. But, I am confused (nothing new there). If the rule says it's a foul not to hit a rail, does the rule say, only if your opponent sees it? The rule, snooze you lose is no where to be found, but growing up in your hometown and playing at Parkmoor, that was the unwritten rule. I didn't like this thread before and I still don't like it. Too many people make to many inferences. Are we still on next Thursday? Five days daddy. Go Niners.

Yes and thanks.See ya down there.John B.

 

[tylerdurden]

It is only a foul if it is called by a ref or a player is how i'd put it (just like in baseball or football tennis or any sport). And, if you do call it on yourself, you are no better, no worse, no more honest, no more of a cheater than the guy who didn't. I've never been sure why people don't understand this. It would be like saying Mcenroe cheated because he didn't let the ref know the ball was actually in on one of his opponents forehands. It is ludicrous. Even in life the powers that be have decided against this poorly conceived philosophy because they realize there are tremendous complications when a person is forced to "testify" against himself. Read the 5th amendment. There is simply just no denying, in all aspects of sport, pool and life that calling people who don't incriminate themselves "cheaters" is outlandish and has no basis in logic. It was interesting somebody noted they would not play anybody who didn't call their own fouls. So what?? Maybe I wont play a guy that chews gum while playing. Point being, my own personal issues, and/or inclinations don't really matter as far as this argument goes.

In short, do it however you'd like, but don't cast aspersions. It is really that simple.

 

[petie]

I didn't read through the whole thread, but I have gotten heated about this a time or two in my life. I will NOT do that in this thread But, the only point i'd like to make is, I personally think it is terrible for the sport of pool when people call those who do not call fouls on themselves cheats, lacking integrity etc. The rules of pool are simple, an outgoing player doesn't really have any responsibilities (short of maybe spotting a ball or something similar). The one I really hate is "I don't need to cheat to win" or "The day I need to cheat to win is the day I stop playing."

Again, I just hate it when people take the "high-and-mighty" road here and say they call all their fouls, and act like their way is the only way to be honest while playing. I still say this position causes the game harm, because it simply isn't true. If you want to call all your fouls, that is fine.... just don't call people cheaters if they don't see it your way -- read the rules. You are perpetuating a fallacy that hurt the game if you continue to do so. In fact, most of the sportiest players I know would be considered cheats and scumbags if we all followed this poorly conceived philosophy.[/QUOTE

Best post In the whole thing.Thank you.You could get a job as a reff too.Thanks again.John B.
PS: gald ole cowboy brought this back up.He probably just did It for all the new members.Tip.. for new members,pay attention when In a game,and all will be swell.

Like John I have not read throught all of the many posts but has anyone covered the aspect that I believe is true that a player CANNOT call a foul on himself? This is not to prevent the "high and mighty" from calling fouls on themselves but to prevent self serving fouls that would spot up balls in critical situations. There is more than one story of this but the details escape me. Perhaps one of you with better memory or more obsession than I can come with the details of how a guy purposely double clutches the cue ball in order to draw his opponent into calling a foul that would advantage the shooter.

 

[Scrzbill]

It is only a foul if it is called by a ref or a player is how i'd put it (just like in baseball or football tennis or any sport). And, if you do call it on yourself, you are no better, no worse, no more honest, no more of a cheater than the guy who didn't. I've never been sure why people don't understand this. It would be like saying Mcenroe cheated because he didn't let the ref know the ball was actually in on one of his opponents forehands. It is ludicrous. Even in life the powers that be have decided against this poorly conceived philosophy because they realize there are tremendous complications when a person is forced to "testify" against himself. Read the 5th amendment. There is simply just no denying, in all aspects of sport, pool and life that calling people who don't incriminate themselves "cheaters" is outlandish and has no basis in logic. It was interesting somebody noted they would not play anybody who didn't call their own fouls. So what?? Maybe I wont play a guy that chews gum while playing. Point being, my own personal issues, and/or inclinations don't really matter as far as this argument goes.

In short, do it however you'd like, but don't cast aspersions. It is really that simple.

I am the guy who wont play someone who is not honest. And if you don't want to play a sport by the rules, then that's dishonest. That's not an aspersion. Those are basic facts. If you need money so bad, get a gun and be an honest criminal. Lets play there's no rules because it doesn't fit my 5th amendment rights against self incrimination? Equating sports which is SUPPOSED to be and test of skills, and criminal activity. These's an admission.:heh:heh

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

Like John I have not read through all of the many posts but has anyone covered the aspect that I believe is true that a player CANNOT call a foul on himself? This is not to prevent the "high and mighty" from calling fouls on themselves but to prevent self serving fouls that would spot up balls in critical situations.

Petie,

This is not the reason for the rule. It's because in an unrefereed match somebody has to be responsible for calling fouls. Sactown Tom covered this in post#172 but he hasn't gotten back to us yet with where the rules are located.

There are situations that can arise where the shooter needs to call attention to the fact that he is going to commit a foul and wants it called but this is not what we are discussing here, only JB's original post's question.


Dennis

Where is this in the rules???

Very good question.

When I was using this rule a few years ago, it was in the World Standardized Rules. Seems that the WSR is now a 'REFEREE" set of rules. All the WSR tournaments are played with referees. There are no instructions about 'unrefereed' games because the world uses Referees when competing.

The USA is the only country that is prodomitely 'cue ball fouls only' and has tournaments without referees. WSR is 'all ball fouls' world wide, except in the USA.

This was a change to the rules after 2008. I have a copy of the old rules and will quote them later.

But, unlike the 'call goes to the shooter', which isn't in any rules, the non-shooting player is responsible for calling fouls in a unrefereed game. If they don't call fouls on their opponent, after the opponent leaves the table, and the incoming player shoots, the fouls are void. You must call a foul prior to the next shot or it is 'slept' 'snooze you loose' Player responsibility to communicate the foul.

Rule number 1.1 in the WSR... the player is responsible for knowing the rules.

 

[fred bentivegna]

Baskets commercial

Baskets commercial

Every time I see that "public service" commercial on TV, the one where the player says he touched the ball last and wants to snitch himself off to the referee; "This is the championship game, the ref did not see that!" Cries his teammate, I want to throw my shoe at the TV. Its an insult to anyone with a single brain particle.:frus

First off, maybe in the whole history of Basketball in the last 50 years, that has probably never, to my knowledge, ever really happened.:sorry Has anybody ever seen it? Has any baseball player ever said after ball four, "Sorry Ump, that was a strike." How about in football before instant replay, "Hey ref, that touchdown dont count, I put my foot down out of bounds." And that is out of maybe only 50 zillion chances to do it.

Bud Harris, in a big money billiard match, called a foul on himself against Boston Shorty, with Artie staking him, to blow the match. Diogenes would have been proud of him, but he never got staked for big cheese in Chicago again.

Beard

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

Bud Harris, in a big money billiard match, called a foul on himself against Boston Shorty, with Artie staking him, to blow the match. Diogenes would have been proud of him, but he never got staked for big cheese in Chicago again.

Beard

Freddy,

I wasn't sure if you were referencing Diogenes of Lesbos or Diogenes of Sinope.. Now I know.

Diogenes modelled himself on the example of Hercules. He believed that virtue was better revealed in action than in theory, even if it meant not getting staked in Athens ever again

Dennis

 

[fred bentivegna]

Diogenes

Diogenes

Freddy,

I wasn't sure if you were referencing Diogenes of Lesbos or Diogenes of Sinope.. Now I know.



Dennis

Diogenes went on an eternal search for the "Honest Man."

Beard

SCRZBill put an application in to brother D, but was rebuffed. Diogenes had him vetted on AZ and he came back, "excommunicated."

 

[hitnandpikn]

I think the practice of,not rule, calling fouls on yourself is meant to keep the creepy, sharking players from crawling all over the table when anything might allow them. Pool doesn't permit the opposing player the right to stare from a vantage point comprable to the shooter, nor are his intentions known with the shot. Golf and billiards are similiar in that the concentration needed to perform in competitive situations dictates your opponent to be quiet and away from the table. He may ask if you fouled, but many times only the shooter knows the true answer. Golfers have lived by these rules and I think we can all agree it has done well by them, and I am no golfer.