Billy Incardona how good was Artie

Cowboy Dennis

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If you locked all of them up in a room and gave each of them a certain amount of money and they had to play each other for a month constantly, at the end of the month all but Artie would be broke. It's just that simple.

Beard
When given the opportunity to play the best player of his era this is the game he tried to make:
Artie Bodendorfer said:
One more thing And I will be going. AB and RA We were going to play 11 to 8 One pocket and RA gets all they breacks.
He wouldn't play the players in the original post even-up Freddy. He wouldn't even play the best player of his era even-up.

Dennis
 

Cowboy Dennis

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Artie himself explained it once. All of the mentioned players were better pool players than him because he wasn't a pool player he was a pool hustler. Efren is in a class by himself. Ronnie and Scott would be a pick em for next with Parica close behind and then Joyner and bringing up last would be Artie. Bugs I have no idea.

Pool hustling would have Artie first from everything that has been said. I don't think any of the others hustled much. Artie would have the most gamble of the group and Efren might have the least.
This is the funniest thing I have read in years. I could easily find, given a day or so, many quotes by AB insisting that he didn't gamble, he robbed and that was the way he liked it.

Thanks for the deep laugh:D

Dennis
 

onepockethacker

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Nah, they'd come out bi-sexual...:heh...

I do like your sense of humor though hacker..but...you're not related to the SJDuck by any chance are you?...:D

- Ghost

PS, By the way hacker...I noticed your action offer in a thread last week, where you said you would be happy to come to any of us onepocket.orgers poolrooms to torture us like you did to Billy..:eek:...well, if you ever make it to Chicago, since I'm just a room player in my 60's who plays 10-8 under Billy - I'd take 10-7 and play you some...:)
You obviously didnt read my statement. I said any of the members that made comments about how bad we played could get played by me even. If you were one of those experts who never misses a ball from the chair you to can get played even. I never said i tortured Billy it was close and he easily could of won. So if you want to play some we can start out even and you can show me your wealth of knowledge.
 

One Pocket Ghost

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You obviously didnt read my statement. I said any of the members that made comments about how bad we played could get played by me even. If you were one of those experts who never misses a ball from the chair you to can get played even. I never said i tortured Billy it was close and he easily could of won. So if you want to play some we can start out even and you can show me your wealth of knowledge.

Guess I didn't read your post closely enough - my bad...but no, I wasn't one of those experts - you don't see any posts by me back there anywhere do you? - I never saw the match, and I have no idea what anybody said.

PS, I guess I'd better take back what I said about your having a good sense of humor...:rolleyes:
 

Banks

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You obviously didnt read my statement. I said any of the members that made comments about how bad we played could get played by me even. If you were one of those experts who never misses a ball from the chair you to can get played even. I never said i tortured Billy it was close and he easily could of won. So if you want to play some we can start out even and you can show me your wealth of knowledge.
I miss all the time.. I'll take 16-4 and the breaks. :D
 

onepockethacker

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No, I wasn't one of those experts - don't know what you're talking about - I never saw the match, and I have no idea what anybody said.

PS, I guess I'd better take back what I said about your having a good sense of humor...:rolleyes:
I have a great sense of humor. You can ask anyone that knows me. Since you didnt make a comment in that thread my comment about playing the ones that did comment didnt refer to you. I just dont like people who critique peoples play when most of them would not get in the box with a gun to their head. I didnt want to play on the stream table(they say the camera adds 10 lbs.) LMFAO
 

Cowboy Dennis

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You obviously didnt read my statement. I said any of the members that made comments about how bad we played could get played by me even. If you were one of those experts who never misses a ball from the chair you to can get played even. I never said i tortured Billy it was close and he easily could of won. So if you want to play some we can start out even and you can show me your wealth of knowledge.
Nope, that ain't what you said.

onepockethacker said:
i just read this thread. LOL i didnt realize how many one pocket experts were on here. Billy and I played 2 times. The 2nd time wasnt on the stream but we both played better. Billy was a gentleman to play with and thats how i like it. Im not into all the woofing and circus crap when it comes to matching up and playing. We played 2 times and never had a single disagreement or controversy. The 2nd time we played i gave him more weight and the entire building thought Billy had way the best of it, it just didnt work out that way. That being said any of the gentleman that have posted in this thread can VERY easily get played by me. I would love to pick up some pointers from these one pocket experts. Who knows i might even get lucky and win again. Let me know your name and where you play and I will come to your room.
 

Cowboy Dennis

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Cowboy Dennis

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Its the same thing since what was said was negative. Ghost didn't comment so what i said wasn't directed at him. Anyone else who at that point had commented CAN GET PLAYED.
The only person (that I recall) making a somewhat negative reference about your play that night also offered to make a game with you should you ever come to Houston. So what's your problem?

Dennis
 

onepockethacker

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I did see some of the match. Bill didn't play good and if onepockethacker is Melrose then he did play better than Billy.

Here's the offending thread.

http://www.onepocket.org/forum/showthread.php?t=6288

OPH,

You should get off your high horse, you ain't the only person who ever gambled. This isn't A-Z billiards here.

Dennis
Im not on a high horse far from it. You seem to be an expert on every subject so i think you are the one on the high horse. Billy and myself both know we played bad on the stream. We played a 2nd time not on stream and we both played alot better. Its general consensus that i outran the nuts. I enjoyed playing Billy because he is a gentleman to match up with and gamble with. As I said earlier we played 2 times probably 14 or 15 hours of total pool time and never once had a disagreement or argument. The reason I started this thread is because I respect Billys opinion and I think he can be unbiased about the question i asked.
 

Cowboy Dennis

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Im not on a high horse far from it. You seem to be an expert on every subject so i think you are the one on the high horse. Billy and myself both know we played bad on the stream. We played a 2nd time not on stream and we both played alot better. Its general consensus that i outran the nuts. I enjoyed playing Billy because he is a gentleman to match up with and gamble with. As I said earlier we played 2 times probably 14 or 15 hours of total pool time and never once had a disagreement or argument. The reason I started this thread is because I respect Billys opinion and I think he can be unbiased about the question i asked.
OPH,

Billy answered your original question so that's done.

You claim in your first post here that you'll match up or play anybody who posted in the thread, now you say you'll only play them even-up. That's two different things.

Like I already said, you ain't the only person who's ever gambled.

Dennis
 

onepockethacker

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The only person (that I recall) making a somewhat negative reference about your play that night also offered to make a game with you should you ever come to Houston. So what's your problem?

Dennis
Make a game? the way i hack them up its obvious we will play even. The only thing Androd and myself would have to get straight is the bet. Unfortunately i wouldnt come to Houston for 100 game action. That being said i will bite my tongue from this point on. I must admit i took the heat when i read a couple of comments( LOL LOL) Thanks for welcoming me to the site and i apologize for any misunderstandings.
 

lll

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onepockethacker
i have a question
are you melrose???
 

fred bentivegna

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Dont assume

Dont assume

When given the opportunity to play the best player of his era this is the game he tried to make:


He wouldn't play the players in the original post even-up Freddy. He wouldn't even play the best player of his era even-up.

Dennis
Why are you assuming that it was Artie demanding 11 to 8? Race Track Phil had about 30k in his hip and he wanted Artie to play even. Ronnie just happens to love that kind of game where he takes the break and gives up a spot. Artie also happens to like the other side of that game. Believe me, them playing even wouldnt have been a problem for anybody, Ronnie, Artie or Race Track Phil. Ronnie had an open 25k invite to play Artie even at North Shore, giving him plenty of time to come up with a backer.

I am going to say this just once more for posterity, my objective mind told me that Artie should have been outgunned by all the people that have been mentioned. In court I could not present a believable case as to why he would be able to beat the aforementioned. I still cant.

As a pool scientist I studied all those players and eventually discovered all their weaknesses, as few as there were. Example, Ronnie, long off-angle banks and off-angle straight-ins at an easy speed. I have a file on all of them -- including Cardone. :heh I really dont want to disparage the other players by snitching off their short suits at this time. I'll keep the rest to myself.
But I never could point to any real weakness in AB's game. Even banking. If he really needed a bank he would somehow make it.
After years of observation I concluded that the worst thing he did was to never attempt to stretch the envelope, and try to take it to a special level.
Even when he was well ahead. He just kept the same pace.
Me, every time I play I look to see if The Final Zone is going to become available to me. That is the reason I play pool, to hopefully rise to that level. I can honestly say that I have hit it a few times -- but unfortunately, not in the last 25 yrs. Still trying tho.

Beard
 

petie

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For Larry and Dennis

For Larry and Dennis

OPH is new to the site and we all agree he is most welcome. Moreover, I think he will be one of the contributors who will teach us from time to time. That said, despite impressions and misunderstandings which are so often and easily created on internet fora, this one being no exception, Robert is one of the most fun loving and good humored guys you will ever meet. Bottom line, if you don't like him after you meet him, something's wrong with you.
 

onepockethacker

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OPH is new to the site and we all agree he is most welcome. Moreover, I think he will be one of the contributors who will teach us from time to time. That said, despite impressions and misunderstandings which are so often and easily created on internet fora, this one being no exception, Robert is one of the most fun loving and good humored guys you will ever meet. Bottom line, if you don't like him after you meet him, something's wrong with you.
Thanks for saying that, i appreciate that. Im not sure who you are LOL LOL You definitely know me though because im always trying to have fun and make people laugh. I have come on this site for a long time but just decided to join. I dont know how to set up a wei diagram i wish i did. There were some shots in mine and Billys matches that he passed up that i thought were the right shot given the circumstances and im sure he thought i passed up some shots also. It would be cool to set up the shots and see what people think.
 

wincardona

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The difference is education.

The difference is education.

Why are you assuming that it was Artie demanding 11 to 8? Race Track Phil had about 30k in his hip and he wanted Artie to play even. Ronnie just happens to love that kind of game where he takes the break and gives up a spot. Artie also happens to like the other side of that game. Believe me, them playing even wouldnt have been a problem for anybody, Ronnie, Artie or Race Track Phil. Ronnie had an open 25k invite to play Artie even at North Shore, giving him plenty of time to come up with a backer.

I am going to say this just once more for posterity, my objective mind told me that Artie should have been outgunned by all the people that have been mentioned. In court I could not present a believable case as to why he would be able to beat the aforementioned. I still cant.

As a pool scientist I studied all those players and eventually discovered all their weaknesses, as few as there were. Example, Ronnie, long off-angle banks and off-angle straight-ins at an easy speed. I have a file on all of them -- including Cardone. :heh I really dont want to disparage the other players by snitching off their short suits at this time. I'll keep the rest to myself.
But I never could point to any real weakness in AB's game. Even banking. If he really needed a bank he would somehow make it.
After years of observation I concluded that the worst thing he did was to never attempt to stretch the envelope, and try to take it to a special level.
Even when he was well ahead. He just kept the same pace.
Me, every time I play I look to see if The Final Zone is going to become available to me. That is the reason I play pool, to hopefully rise to that level. I can honestly say that I have hit it a few times -- but unfortunately, not in the last 25 yrs. Still trying tho.

Beard
Allow me to offer my perspective on the modern day players, as opposed to old school players. Back in the day when there were only a hand full of players that played one pocket at a top level, moving was at a premium. The reason moving was at a premium is because the best players pretty much knew the best shot for just about any situation, unlike today where the right shot is familiar to most players that play one pocket. So with this understanding one can understand that a good ball striker (like Artie) with a very good understanding of the game will beat great ball strikers that have a limited understanding of the game. Today's players have a much better understanding of the game, just as today's boxers, golfers, and players that play all other sports have a much better understanding of their respective games. Artie wasn't considered a great ball striker, he won with his discipline and understanding of the right way to play (for him). Artie won with smarts and patience, but imo it takes more than smarts and patience for a good ball striker to beat the best ball strikers of today playing one pocket, simply because one pocket players today are much more educated than players 40 years ago.:frus :sorry Like I said in an earlier post, moving is over rated because moving (the correct shot) isn't a big mystery any more which shifts the edge back to the players that have the best execution skills.

Billy I.
 
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