Being Left On End-Rail

Cowboy Dennis

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I've seen several references lately to what people shoot and don't shoot when they are left on the end-rail. I've also heard top players say that they would shoot at any makeable shot if left on the end-rail early in the game so as to "send a message". Maybe that's supposed to frighten me but it never did. I always figured that he would have to hurt me at least three times before I stopped leaving him there. I suppose this may be a good tournament strategy and maybe even sometimes when gambling but it's not ever what I do (or did).

When someone left me on the end-rail early in a game and left me a shot that I was "supposed" to shoot I would weigh the benefits first. Making or missing the ball never came into it, I much preferred to have someone think I was scared to shoot from the head rail. Later in the match when the bet was higher or the game was close I would have passed up several good opportunities to shoot at my hole and he would then leave me up there with impunity. At some tough point in a game when the time was right he would leave me up there and I would shoot the same shot I had been passing up for hours. Most opponents were shocked that I had shot the same shot they had been leaving for hours and made it and hurt them with it.

This isn't really a big revelation or anything but I've never heard any player say they do this. I'm talking about passing up a shot at the frozen 1 ball in this layout and maybe getting three balls if I make it. If I pass up a few of these most guys figure I won't shoot it at all. I will but only when I want to, not when I'm supposed to.

I'll use Western Union if I want to send a message:) .

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Tramp Steamer

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I'd say that was a reasonably good stragidree... stregidee... plan.
By-the-way. When shooting one of those long greenies, do you look at the cue ball last as the shot is made? :)
 

lll

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dennis
you have started a VERY INTERESTING thread
in a way this is what STALLING is about

you show you cant/wont make certain shots or position
then do it when the money is on the line

in your hypothetical example
its easy to shoot the one and protect it


i would think that strategy would only work on people you hadnt played before that was feeling out your speed

after getting beat by late inning long made shots off the rail your opponents would figure out you could make them:)
 

John Brumback

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Oh yeah

Oh yeah

I've been doing that kind of stuff for years.I like to keep em off guard.Maybe pass It up a couple times In a row then fire It In on em.There's alot of things you can do like that.Imo little moves like that should not be confused with stalling.Would or could be called stratagey,right?John B.
 

SJDinPHX

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John Brumback said:
I've been doing that kind of stuff for years.I like to keep em off guard.Maybe pass It up a couple times In a row then fire It In on em.There's alot of things you can do like that.Imo little moves like that should not be confused with stalling.Would or could be called stratagey,right?John B.
Right John...I have been doing that for years, to RBL and he still hasn't caught on...:p
 

Cowboy Dennis

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John Brumback said:
Imo little moves like that should not be confused with stalling.Would or could be called stratagey,right?John B.
I agree, that's the way I always figured it anyway. I like your point of "keeping them off guard", I strive for unpredictability when playing one-pocket.

Dennis
 

NH Steve

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Cowboy Dennis said:
I agree, that's the way I always figured it anyway. I like your point of "keeping them off guard", I strive for unpredictability when playing one-pocket.

Dennis
I like this idea a lot. It fits my playing style too.
 

bstroud

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This thought has never occurred to me.

When I am playing I want to win in the fewest innings possible.

If I can make the ball and get position I shoot it. If I can't I look to move balls to my pocket and play safe. I never deviate from these rules.

Bill Stroud
 

John Brumback

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bstroud said:
This thought has never occurred to me.

When I am playing I want to win in the fewest innings possible.

If I can make the ball and get position I shoot it. If I can't I look to move balls to my pocket and play safe. I never deviate from these rules.

Bill Stroud
Seems like It would be hard to keep em off guard like that.Wouldn't any good player know excatly what your going to do next? Well every game Is different anyway,so I guess It don't matter.Myself,I like to be hard to figure.John B.
 

petie

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I saw Scott Frost run seven balls and get this shot and he ducked. I would never shoot it unless it is free.
 

lll

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so if i get this correctly
you guys that want to confuse your opponent by not being consistent in your shot selection are hoping he will leave you on the end rail with a shot that you passed up before in similar situations and make it and win the game
ok you won 1 game

what about the games you may have lost because you passed up an opprtunity to make a shot to your pocket??

after that game doesnt he have to figure you might shoot it when he leaves you there???
 

Frank Almanza

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If he leaves me on the end rail after him trying and aggressive shot that if he made it there would be a big reward for him then that's when I'm shooting for my hole.
I don't want him thinking that he can try those kind of shots for free. In other situations I might pass on the shot.
 

Cowboy Dennis

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lll said:
so if i get this correctly
you guys that want to confuse your opponent by not being consistent in your shot selection are hoping he will leave you on the end rail with a shot that you passed up before in similar situations and make it and win the game
ok you won 1 game

what about the games you may have lost because you passed up an opprtunity to make a shot to your pocket??

after that game doesnt he have to figure you might shoot it when he leaves you there???
Larry,

It's not really a matter of "losing games by passing up the shot" or "winning the games by shooting the shot". Just because I pass up a tough, long distance shot doesn't mean I lost the game just as if I shoot it and make it doesn't mean I won the game.

It's more a matter of being unpredictable. Anytime that you can leave your opponent someplace on the table and know for a fact that he won't shoot from there it's to your advantage. I let him think that for awhile and then remove his comfort zone when the time is right. How would you like it if you left me a long, tough shot for several games and I passed it up each time and then, in a tough spot, you leave it again feeling confident that I won't shoot at my pocket and I do? It's not really a "stall" tactic as I am passing up a good shot at my pocket (for quite awhile) but it is to my advantage in some situations. You have to weigh the opponent, the bet, the situation, and other intangibles to make your decisions. It's not always the "right" thing to do but it's worth a look.

It does take tremendous confidence in your own game & abilities to let the opponent have a "move" up on you only to turn the tables on him later when the time is right.

Dennis
 

Skin

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I'm with Stroud. All of that duck-or-shoot strategy to keep 'em off guard is too much thinking.

Use the Force, Luke.

Skin
 

Billy Jackets

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This doesnt seem like a good move even against a weak shooter like me.
You might get several balls and if you miss it you might roll up and not even leave a shot. I wouldn't give a blind guy this shot , but if the one was all he could get and I had a ball or 2 in front of my hole and a possible break out. I'm giving you this till you prove you never miss.
This isn't for world class shooters but for regular guys that miss once in a while, especially when it's not "free".
I don't know what you do against a champion, I'm not that level, but against most people if they shoot to get one and give up a bunch of balls or the game because of it, they have to have some stones to overcome it.
All those "lamb killers " will fade after they miss the shot a time or two and you punish them.
 
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wincardona

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Playing to the end rail offers a haven even against the best players, so I guess I would agree with Stroud, if it's right to shoot then go for it. To me that unwritten rule should apply, unless you have time to do what ever you want to do. Now if you were to ask Cooney about your strategy i'm sure he would agree.

Billy I.
 

vapros

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Here's a question for everyone. If you have a straight-in shot with the CB a foot off the head rail, that you will make 9 times out of 10, what will be your percentage if the CB is frozen to the rail?

Any helpful tips for shooting off the rail will be appreciated. Not for me - it's for my brother-in-law's nephew. :rolleyes:
 

Cowboy Dennis

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bstroud said:
This thought has never occurred to me.

When I am playing I want to win in the fewest innings possible.

If I can make the ball and get position I shoot it. If I can't I look to move balls to my pocket and play safe. I never deviate from these rules.

Bill Stroud
Bill,

This thought has never occurred to you? It never in life occurred to you that it may be better to pass off on this shot for $25 a game and save it for $200 per game?

Dennis
 

Cowboy Dennis

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Billy Jackets said:
This doesnt seem like a good move even against a weak shooter like me.
You might get several balls and if you miss it you might roll up and not even leave a shot. I wouldn't give a blind guy this shot , but if the one was all he could get and I had a ball or 2 in front of my hole and a possible break out. I'm giving you this till you prove you never miss.
This isn't for world class shooters but for regular guys that miss once in a while, especially when it's not "free".
I don't know what you do against a champion, I'm not that level, but against most people if they shoot to get one and give up a bunch of balls or the game because of it, they have to have some stones to overcome it.
All those "lamb killers " will fade after they miss the shot a time or two and you punish them.
Billy J.,

What if you left me the shot and I did this? Is this so wrong?

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androd

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Every shot is a unique situation with different variables.;)
This is one of the things that makes our game so great. :)
Every time I play I see a shot I've rarely or never seen. :D ( Or the opportunity to shoot one)
Rod.
 
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