Bank Lessons 1: is more really more when it comes to spin?

tylerdurden

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Oct 1, 2011
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I wanted to do a couple of threads like this at least, hence the title. Not me giving the "lesson" of course.... i'm hoping for others to do that :) But, I do have my guesses....

The question: when using spin on the cb to shorten or widen the angle of the ob off a cushion, does more spin on the cb translate to more spin on the ob?? Put another way, if you need to shorten a ball up to the max, do you load it up with inside (as much as possible), or put less inside on it?? Of course speed will have a large effect, but we are talking more about spin here, and its effect.

I have come across hints at the answer to this on the board here. Maybe it is already obvious to most (here comes my opinion).... I think less spin is actually the way to shorten the ball the most, or "grab" the ball the most. If you use too much, it is almost like the friction disappears.... just the right amount (along with a perfect speed) and it gets a chance to grab. Similarly, to widen a ball the most, less spin would be used, so the cb is turning a tad and can grab.

Any corrections to that are desired.... or if i'm out and out wrong of course just tell me. But I think i'm right, my banks are getting better and this is one of the reasons.

The cool part: this principle applies to many other shots in pool -- trying to spin a frozen 2 ball combination to the max.... I think less spin (at the correct speed) may be the answer.
 
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Banks

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Dec 7, 2010
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Shorten with inside and/or speed. Spin transfers best at a slow/medium speed, too. I learned about that when I'd get low on $ and started banking the balls back to myself and tried to see how much transfer I could get, etc.

Think of it as gearing, that works best for me..

A lot of people try to shoot hard when wanting more spin, which kind of counters itself. A medium speed works best, since you maintain a more expected speed/angle while still getting the spin transfered.

There are quite a few tips in here if you spend a little time digging through(hint: look for posts by the real specialists, not me).

I've still got plenty to learn, so keep tossing questions out there until Freddy, John and others run out of breath. Hopefully I got a little of this one right. ;)

Time to leave work! :eek:

Edit: Don't forget collision-spin either!
 

Cowboy Dennis

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Dec 16, 2008
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I wanted to do a couple of threads like this at least, hence the title. Not me giving the "lesson" of course.... i'm hoping for others to do that :) But, I do have my guesses....

The question: when using spin on the cb to shorten or widen the angle of the ob off a cushion, does more spin on the cb translate to more spin on the ob?? Put another way, if you need to shorten a ball up to the max, do you load it up with inside (as much as possible), or put less inside on it?? Of course speed will have a large effect, but we are talking more about spin here, and its effect.

I have come across hints at the answer to this on the board here. Maybe it is already obvious to most (here comes my opinion).... I think less spin is actually the way to shorten the ball the most, or "grab" the ball the most. If you use too much, it is almost like the friction disappears.... just the right amount (along with a perfect speed) and it gets a chance to grab. Similarly, to widen a ball the most, less spin would be used, so the cb is turning a tad and can grab.

Any corrections to that are desired.... or if i'm out and out wrong of course just tell me. But I think i'm right, my banks are getting better and this is one of the reasons.

The cool part: this principle applies to many other shots in pool -- trying to spin a frozen 2 ball combination to the max.... I think less spin (at the correct speed) may be the answer.
TD,

Unless I'm misinterpreting what you wrote, I think you are correct for the most part. I believe an object ball can only have so much spin transferred to it before the extra just does not take, rendering it useless. Sometimes I feel it's like two gears meshing and the lesser spin takes better.

As you stated, speed also plays a huge part in banks.

Dennis
 

tylerdurden

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Oct 1, 2011
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1,959
TD,

Unless I'm misinterpreting what you wrote, I think you are correct for the most part. I believe an object ball can only have so much spin transferred to it before the extra just does not take, rendering it useless. Sometimes I feel it's like two gears meshing and the lesser spin takes better.

As you stated, speed also plays a huge part in banks.

Dennis
Much simpler explanation, less wordy than my mess up there :)

I guess another "place" I was exploring with this thread is the use of spin in banking in general. I am starting to feel like I do when I play nineball (which I am much more proficient at btw), that is.... spin is best used in dabs (when shotmaking is of the utmost), as overspinning gets you in trouble with shotmaking. Small to medium amounts of spin seem to serve two purposed in banks: 1) to really get the torque you may want on (or off) the ob 2) to maintain your accuracy with respect to deflection etc
 

John Brumback

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Dec 6, 2010
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I wanted to do a couple of threads like this at least, hence the title. Not me giving the "lesson" of course.... i'm hoping for others to do that :) But, I do have my guesses....

The question: when using spin on the cb to shorten or widen the angle of the ob off a cushion, does more spin on the cb translate to more spin on the ob?? Put another way, if you need to shorten a ball up to the max, do you load it up with inside (as much as possible), or put less inside on it?? Of course speed will have a large effect, but we are talking more about spin here, and its effect.

I have come across hints at the answer to this on the board here. Maybe it is already obvious to most (here comes my opinion).... I think less spin is actually the way to shorten the ball the most, or "grab" the ball the most. If you use too much, it is almost like the friction disappears.... just the right amount (along with a perfect speed) and it gets a chance to grab. Similarly, to widen a ball the most, less spin would be used, so the cb is turning a tad and can grab.

Any corrections to that are desired.... or if i'm out and out wrong of course just tell me. But I think i'm right, my banks are getting better and this is one of the reasons.

The cool part: this principle applies to many other shots in pool -- trying to spin a frozen 2 ball combination to the max.... I think less spin (at the correct speed) may be the answer.
Sounds like you have most of it figured out.
Lots of good ?s too.

1. speed is one of the major deciding factors of how short or long the oball can go.(depending on the kind of shot)
2.(the trick and my secret).Nobody that I have ever heard of or about knows this trick.To get max transfer to oball the cball needs to stay in place after hitting the oball.If you have draw you won't get as much.Same with follow,you won't get as much.Try playing with this and you'll see what I'm talking about right away.(stop cball in it's tracks)
3. yes to much spin on cball will slip off the oball and not transfer much.
Stay in close to the center of cball and try those shots with just a half tip to a full tip of english.(There are some shots that I can turn more with no english than with english).I call it cling or grip but not spin.The "gearing effect" Dennis mentioned.That's a good way to describe what I'm talking about too.Same thing.Onemore tip.Pay speacial att.to your cball after the shot.It aint easy for me to give this kind of stuff away.Took me like 30 some years to learn most of this on my own.Hope this helps. John B.
 

tylerdurden

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Oct 1, 2011
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Sounds like you have most of it figured out.
Lots of good ?s too.

1. speed is one of the major deciding factors of how short or long the oball can go.(depending on the kind of shot)
2.(the trick and my secret).Nobody that I have ever heard of or about knows this trick.To get max transfer to oball the cball needs to stay in place after hitting the oball.If you have draw you won't get as much.Same with follow,you won't get as much.Try playing with this and you'll see what I'm talking about right away.(stop cball in it's tracks)
3. yes to much spin on cball will slip off the oball and not transfer much.
Stay in close to the center of cball and try those shots with just a half tip to a full tip of english.(There are some shots that I can turn more with no english than with english).I call it cling or grip but not spin.The "gearing effect" Dennis mentioned.That's a good way to describe what I'm talking about too.Same thing.Onemore tip.Pay speacial att.to your cball after the shot.It aint easy for me to give this kind of stuff away.Took me like 30 some years to learn most of this on my own.Hope this helps. John B.
Thanks to everybody who's posted.

John, when you mentioned that about the stopping of the cb for max transfer, I never knew that, but now that you say it, it makes sense at some level. Meaning, i'm not even at the table and I feel I can "See" what you mean in my head. In any case, i'll definitely look into that... definitely one of the most informative things I have read. I am excited to play around with that next time I get to a table.

Your point three was my next thread, as I set up a little experiment the other day, and I noticed I was getting max spin on cut banks with a center ball, which surprised me. Anyway... i'll post how I did that in the next thread. I find it very thrilling that you confirmed that though. Short threads, but very informative ones.
 

mojoe

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Jan 19, 2011
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If John B. says it's so, it is. He's the most knowledgeable bank pool player that I've ever met and a super nice guy too. I know I'm preaching to the choir here but just wanted to emphasize what a great player and great person he is!

I've had a half dozen lessons with various professional "instructors". My lesson with John was far more informative and enlightening than any of them. Taking lessons from a champion was beyond my expectations.

If y'all don't have his DVD, you need to get it. It's a steal to get 30 years of knowledge for a mere $50.. JMHO

Thanks to John for an amazing lesson. I'll be ready for a lesson on strategy in 6 months or so..

Peace, JoeyK
 
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