Ball in the kitchen on scratch

Tennessee Joe6

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The first item to consider is when is a ball in the kitchen. Under World Standardized Rules if the base (part of the ball touching the table) of the ball is behind the line, it is in the kitchen. If the base of the ball is on the line or above the line, it is not in the kitchen.

So in this scenario I'm describing, the object ball is on the line and the cue ball is any place behind the line, you may shoot it if the base of the cue ball touches or crosses over the line before contact.

6.11 Bad Play from Behind the Head String
When the cue ball is in hand behind the head string, and the first ball the cue ball contacts is also behind the head string, the shot is a foul unless the cue ball crosses the head string before that contact.

So it is possible to cut this object ball back to a pocket that is in the kitchen.


Of course house rules and gambling rules should be agreed before play begins.
 

LSJohn

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Aug 15, 2013
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The first item to consider is when is a ball in the kitchen. Under World Standardized Rules if the base (part of the ball touching the table) of the ball is behind the line, it is in the kitchen. If the base of the ball is on the line or above the line, it is not in the kitchen.

So in this scenario I'm describing, the object ball is on the line and the cue ball is any place behind the line, you may shoot it if the base of the cue ball touches or crosses over the line before contact.

6.11 Bad Play from Behind the Head String
When the cue ball is in hand behind the head string, and the first ball the cue ball contacts is also behind the head string, the shot is a foul unless the cue ball crosses the head string before that contact.

So it is possible to cut this object ball back to a pocket that is in the kitchen.


Of course house rules and gambling rules should be agreed before play begins.
I've never played it that way, but it seems to me that the way you're reading the rule has to be right.
 

Billy Jackets

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Sep 3, 2011
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If you play by this rule:

"The World Standardized Rules do not require contacting anything outside the kitchen. For example, you could play a masse shot that curves around the headspot and comes back to pocket the ball."

and this rule (apparently from Jewett in a Billiards Digest article:

"You can also shoot balls behind the headstring provided that the cue ball has crossed the headstring before hitting them"

...it looks to me that Billy Jackets' diagrammed shot would be legal.

Also, how would Billy's shot be any different technically than a masse that leaves and returns?

This is weird stuff that I never gave any thought to, but there are obviously some controversies I didn't know about.

That was not my shot ,
It was the Ops, I think the diagrammed shot is illegal. I also think he has completely misread what Bob Jewett said about the shot
I never thought about the piquet shot someone mentioned, because I have never seen anyone use it in a game.
I saw a video with Steve Davis and it was titled Piquet shot , but he hit an object ball so to me that is just a jacked up draw shot.
I thought piquet was when the cueball went forward a distance and then came straight back without hitting a ball or a rail.? anybody know for sure?
This whole question is moot in one pocket, but it could come up in 8 ball I guess. If your opponent scratched on his last ball.
 

LSJohn

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That was not my shot
Ah, I see that now.

I think the diagrammed shot is illegal.
You may be right, but if so, Jewett didn't say quite what he meant when he (allegedly) wrote: "You can also shoot balls behind the headstring provided that the cue ball has crossed the headstring before hitting them."

Maybe Bob Jewett was misquoted.
 
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