Bad rolls?????

Tom Wirth

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What are your thoughts on bad rolls?

I'm not taking about what your opponent may do or how lucky he may get on any given shot. None of us has any control over what they may do on their shots. I"m talking about what we do on our shots.

Do you ever feel you got unlucky when you've just shot a great shot but the cue ball rolled maybe one inch too far or not far enough to give you the shape you need to run out on your opponent, and as a result you're now in a dogfight to win the game?

Well, Was that a bad roll or was it that you just failed to execute the shot as precisely as was needed. Maybe, just maybe you just chose position on a ball that required too much expertise for your current abilities. Who is ultimately responsible for the outcome of any shot we chose to shoot?

I've thought about this from time to time and I can truly state that I have gotten only one bad roll in my entire career of playing pool when I was the shooter. The ball I was shooting at moved just as I struck the cue ball. It turned over as though it had been balanced on a piece of chalk. The chalk gave way and over the ball turned at just at the wrong moment.

That was it! The only bad roll I ever got while shooting. Now am I being too harsh on myself? Am I asking too much of myself? I don't think so. Not if I want to excel. The only way to achieve the maximum out of our natural ability is to raise our level of consciousness and strive for ever more precise targets. This takes immense dedication, concentration, and hours upon hours of intense practice.

The question is; how dedicated are we to the work needed to obtain that goal?

I"m past my prime and don't have the will or inclination to strive for that degree of precision. At one time I did but not now. That's my excuse, what's yours, if you have one?

Tom
 

lll

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i dont have any excuses
i suck and accept that but am working hard to improve...:)
today i had a perfect example of your scenario
i decided to be aggressive and shoot at a tough cut even tho my opponent had a ball hanging in his hole
if i made it it "seemed" natural to come a cross and make two or more before i made or took out his ball
however...........:frus:frus:frus
i made the ball (woo hoo....:D )
but
the cue ball stopped where i couldnt see enough of the make able ball and the other ball didnt have a pocket
and the balls left around the stack blocked me getting easily to make his ball
i felt i got a bad roll
but i learned i have to be able to stop the cue ball on a smaller spot....:)
 

Hardmix

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This is a great post Tom. I think in order to improve your game you need to raise your expectations.
 

vapros

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The rolls - both good and bad - come and go, and every player has his own definition of what a bad roll is. Sarcastic losing players like to say 'Nice roll!' in response to a good shot by an opponent. Aggressive players who shoot hard and move a lot of balls get the most rolls, both good and bad. Tony Chohan, for example.

I can't get very excited about the rolls. When I get the other problems in my game all ironed out I will start planning how to improve my rolls. I'm probably not talking about next month. :)
 

beatle

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the worse player can rarely improve enough to beat a better player playing even. thats what getting spots are for. better players just get a cleaner hit and a more exact result on a shot.
 

androd

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The guy playing better gets the best rolls.
When you play badly your rolls stink !.
 

Tom Wirth

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The question becomes; What defines a "bad roll"? My point is; and this is only my definition, is something occurring that was entirely out of my control. An act of God so to speak. Match on the line, game ball, straight in, easy. Just then an earthquake. The roof falls in and it's game over. Now that's a bad roll. Shooting a shot and getting hooked or having the object ball skid off line or any of that stuff is not part of my definition of a "bad roll". Bottom line: Whatever happens on my shot is my responsibility. Thinking otherwise would turn me into a victim and provide me with an excuse to lose. Well that ain't me!

Tom
 
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unoperro

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Curious ,Tom,have you ever gotten a good roll?

Perhaps it seems sarcastic to ask but lets be honest here.
 

NH Steve

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Most of us being the amateurs that we are, get a lot of "bad rolls" -- by your opening post -- but as far as I am concerned I believe they simply come with the territory, being an amateur player. I expect not to be perfect lol. Sometimes I hit a ball near perfectly, but many of my shots do roll that damn extra fraction of an inch, or they come up a fraction short. I do consider those "bad rolls" when I am just a smidge off, entirely ruining the shot. But they sure do come with the territory :(
 

Tom Wirth

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Curious ,Tom,have you ever gotten a good roll?

Perhaps it seems sarcastic to ask but lets be honest here.
Of course! I have gotten plenty of good rolls and I expect if I continue to play I will get many more, but those instances are accidents. Bad rolls are not accidents! Bad rolls are the result of poor planning or precision play, plain and simple. The goal should be to execute every shot with precision and an understanding of the "what ifs". Am I disappointed in getting lucky? Hell no, but though I may not share that knowledge with my opponent I do inwardly recognize that I didn't execute the shot as planned. This thinking can lead to a more determined set of goals. In other words, a deeper focus on what I hope to achieve on each shot with smaller targets for position. A professional approach is the only way to look at it if your goal is to reach the furthest limit to your abilities. That's not for everyone nor is it for most of us here on OP.org. but I do believe if we stop deluding ourselves about bad rolls and accept the fact that we need to make a more concerted effort we will improve beyond what we may have thought possible.

Yes, most of us are amateurs, but whether an amateur or professional should not change what we should be striving toward, and that is precision in what we do on the table. The more we rely on luck the more luck plays a role in the outcome. It's just a matter of the depth of self criticism we are willing to absorb when defining what just occurred. Would a pro have gotten the cue ball into that tight position we as amateurs failed to do? How much effort are you, and I say "you" meaning all of us, are willing to put into our improvement? If we settle for sloppiness (I use the word loosely) well we can expect more of the same, good and bad.

Tom
 
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Scrzbill

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There’s no such thing as a bad roll. I was playing at Ca Billiards, One Pocket. It was close to the break, maybe the second turn and I had a billiard shot to make a ball in my hole, with the cue ball going to the other side of the rack for more shots. I fired it in and the ball was made, the cue ball bounce off a ball and sent the cue ball into another hole for a scratch. Was it bad luck? Yes it was. It was bad luck I didn’t use my brains to think the shot all the way.
 

bstroud

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Tom,

I think that Bad Rolls are a state of mind.

If you expect them then you will get them.

You need to think positive to play pool.

I have many times created Something out of Nothing on the table.

It is just a state of mind.

Bill Stroud
 

Mkbtank

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To me it is very similar to “getting sharked”. We may gripe or cry but at heart we should know that it’s our own fault. I could always get up and wait until I am not distracted to pull the trigger. It starts and ends with me. Now I usually get lucky but I do still winge a bit when I get bad rolls even when they are my fault. Heh.
 

Island Drive

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Bad rolls that come from the equipment, are difficult for most anyone to deal with. The other kind, show ones true character.
 

baby huey

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Tom, I've had many bad rolls. There have been times when I took too much cash with me to the pool room and lost it all. There have been times I took too little cash with me and lost out on a good score because I couldn't cover the bet. Lastly, the worst bad roll was in I think 1978 or 9 when I was in Tulsa and playing a bookie the night before the superbowl. I was winning pretty good and we stopped for the night and the next day he got broke with all the action he took on Dallas. If Denver had won that game I might be a rich man today. Thats the worst roll I ever got. lol
 

Tom Wirth

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Bad rolls that come from the equipment, are difficult for most anyone to deal with. The other kind, show ones true character.
Yes, Bill, equipment we are unfamiliar with can throw us for a loop until we understand the table better. So I agree the definition of a bad roll could include table drifts and such but only until we have had the opportunity to learn the table's idiosyncrasies. Then it's all on us and how well we learn from those examples. I've heard so many people complain about the same drift two or three times, all within a very short period of time. Now what did they expect to happen? Once, shame on the table drift, twice shame on the shooter.

I also agree with you about what "bad rolls" say about a person's character.

Tom
 

Tom Wirth

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Tom, I've had many bad rolls. There have been times when I took too much cash with me to the pool room and lost it all. There have been times I took too little cash with me and lost out on a good score because I couldn't cover the bet. Lastly, the worst bad roll was in I think 1978 or 9 when I was in Tulsa and playing a bookie the night before the superbowl. I was winning pretty good and we stopped for the night and the next day he got broke with all the action he took on Dallas. If Denver had won that game I might be a rich man today. Thats the worst roll I ever got. lol
Jerry, now you're talking about a different kind of bad roll. I've got one for ya. Many years ago Jack Cooney was in the Baltimore area and frequenting a pool room called Jack & Jill. This was not Beenie's place in Shirlington VA. That room had been closed for a number of years by this time. But this room had plenty of action all the same.

Well I was not well known by Jack back then and he offered me 8 -6 for a 6 game freeze out for 3K. That was real nice action for 1978. and Jack had way the worst of that bet but but didn't know it. I brought a stake horse along who had brought with him about 7K. He couldn't play a lick but liked to try. He had to be the worst player in any room he walked into.

So Jack's in the room and ready for our match but my backer gets cold feet and stalls around awhile.
It didn't take long before some stranger to the pool room looks him up and makes a game with him. My guy looses the entire 7K to a guy no one "claims" to know and I'm denied my only opportunity to snap San Fran Jack off for a cool 3 to 6k.

Turns out the player who snapped my would be backer off was a Canadian snooker champion.

So I guess I could say that's a bad roll too.

Tom
 

Tom Wirth

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HI Mark, I think we have all played on tables with rolls like that at one time or another. Pretty bad, I agree. The first time that happens it is a learning experience. What do you call it when it happens a second time? Remember, It will do the same thing to your opponent unless he does something to prevent it.
Once playing 9 ball on the road I had a straight in shot from the middle of the table. I had to draw the cue ball back a long way, so I had to hit the shot pretty hard. The object ball hit the back of the pocket and with a loud, high pitched ping the ball flew into the air and landed back onto the table again. This was a GC II, not one of those antique style tables with the metal backing around the webbed pocket. I inspected the pocket and what did I find? Someone had driven a nail into the back of the pocket and that's what I hit. After that I knew how I had to play similar shots into that pocket. Gaff tables are everywhere and local players want nothing more than to get strangers playing on them.

You've got to learn to love the equipment you're playing on. Sometimes we have no choice.
As someone stated earlier, "Bad rolls are a state of mind."

Tom
 
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