B. Hall vs. E. Reyes 2005 D.C.C.

One Pocket Ghost

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Ok then, it's my turn to emote...

I just wanted to say that for any onepocket.org member/one pocket player proficient enough to hit a 3-railer like this one reasonably well - it was my intent to insist that the 3-railer was the best choice here...:eek:...:heh...:sorry....:cool:

- Gh:hehst
 

lll

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It was not my intent to try to convince everyone my shot was the best shot. All I was saying was it was the shot I saw for me, and then tried to explain why I liked it. Who knows, maybe even at a real table with this exact set up, I would have felt differently.

Like I think I said earlier, one of the great things (and unique things) about One Pocket is how different players -- including much better ones than me -- come up with different shot choices, and they all seem to have their reasons. Here on OnePocket.org we have the unique opportunity to hear many of those different choices and their reasoning. If what is learned does not end up applying exactly in this situation, due to stubbornness, pride or simply difference of opinion, I have no doubt that at some point is some future game, nuggets learned here will help there.
i consider myself an intermediate level player.....:eek:
freddys principles as dr. bill i think agreed with IN PRINCIPLE ie accumulation,you dont need to hit a home run every inning and the balls on the spot are difficult to move up table (so they are your friend when behind)
are sound nuggets/concepts for us lesser players to pay attention to.

whether they apply IN THIS PARTICULAR LAYOUT you have heard all the arguments/discussion.everyone can make up their own mind where you stand on the subject
myself i went for the one rail bank on the 3 wanting to hide the 3 and not give efren a shot on the stripe (14?)
so what?? you may ask. good question...:heh
but it was refreshing to have a DISCUSSION on the pros and cons of various shot choices.
i hope dennis if he reads this understands
that steve tried to put the flames out as fast as he could so the thread did not disintegrate
if every one can try to not take any critiques personal and be civil we all can learn something to help our game
isnt that why we come here ???:)
 

vapros

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Okay, let's call off the dogs and piss on this fire and move along.

Buddy Hall shot the one-railer on the 3 ball and drilled it. Then he shot one of the free balls loose on the table. He missed it, it rattled and came out hot and broke up the two balls on the spot, leaving Efren with a very short shot that was straight in. A ball went down in the upper left pocket, and when spotted would have left Efren without a good shot, but Buddy was having none of that. He was mad, and raked off the balls, conceding the game.

This was a sad match. Buddy was huge and looked in bad shape. Efren beat him 3-0 without wasting any time. Not a pretty thing to see.

I saw Buddy at Tunica last year, riding in a motorized chair. I think he played one-pocket anyway.
 

tylerdurden

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I have a couple of things to say...

how did he hit that bank? with what type stroke?

I don't think it matters at all that he missed the ball after the bank; that probably goes without saying.

i love this thread. i can't think of anything i like to see more at this point in my pool life than people getting passionate about one pocket shots and ideas. let's face it, sitting around a coffee table having a cup tea and talking one pocket, without any contention or passion whatsoever, would be no fun at all!

lastly, was that an unnofficial highjack of the "what he actually did" post? :D:heh
 

fred bentivegna

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Final thoughts. The 3-railer is a stiff. a. you could get a kiss. b. you could run into the ball next to the 3 ball. c. to miss the ball next to the 3 you have to send the cue ball forward, and if you do miss the kiss it will be very difficult to control the speed of the cue ball and it is doubtful that you will wind up close to the bottom rail. d. if you do make it, you have another long shot to start with (if you did get the cue ball close to the rail) , and no matter what you aint getting out with those balls jammed up on the back rail.

The bank Buddy shot, and the way that he shot it, was only good if he could have -- for sure -- got a batch of balls. If I would have chosen that shot (and I wouldnt have) I would have rolled it to my pocket and sent the cue ball to the back rail. It just so happens to be a shot (3 ball straight back) that I hit very well, hard or soft. I feature it in my books and DVDs. I can even make it if it is only 1 inch off of the rail. I still wouldnt shoot it because if defies my rule of accumulation.

I would actually pick Tom's shot over the 3 ball straight back. That would somewhat be in tune with my rule of accumulation, but it would violate my rule of not touching already spotted balls. But if the 2 spotted balls were in a slightly different position, and not on the spot, then I might cross over one of them, putting it on my side and sending the cue ball down table. That would definitely be in line with my need for accumulation.

Finally, finally. Addressing how easy Efren could stymie my lag to the 6 ball by crossing the 3 ball, aside from having to execute the shot extremely well to snooker me to the point where I couldnt even kick at the 3 ball, there is one more consideration for Effie to worry about in this supposedly fool-proof shot (besides the corner scratch and the perfect speed) -- he could very easily bank the 3 ball cross-side! Then it would be spotted up and be another plus for Buddy.

Beard

Tom, I have no doubt that you know what you are doing playing one socket, you come highly recommended from some good people. Prove them right and beat some people at the open. :D
 

Tom Wirth

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I will do all I can to beat as many people as I confront Fred. Thanks for saying that. I very much appreciate your support. Like many of us growing older and not playing as much these days, my only issue may turn out to be inconsistency in my execution of shots.

Should I get a couple matches under my belt and become comfortable at the table there is no telling what damage I can do to this field. I hope for the best and I am working hard in preparation.

Once again, and this is to all here at OnePocket.org, Thanks for the well wishes and support.

Tom
 

gulfportdoc

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Okay, let's call off the dogs and piss on this fire and move along.

Buddy Hall shot the one-railer on the 3 ball and drilled it. Then he shot one of the free balls loose on the table. He missed it, it rattled and came out hot and broke up the two balls on the spot, leaving Efren with a very short shot that was straight in. A ball went down in the upper left pocket, and when spotted would have left Efren without a good shot, but Buddy was having none of that. He was mad, and raked off the balls, conceding the game.

This was a sad match. Buddy was huge and looked in bad shape. Efren beat him 3-0 without wasting any time. Not a pretty thing to see.

I saw Buddy at Tunica last year, riding in a motorized chair. I think he played one-pocket anyway.
Thanks, V-man! You're a saint. Now we can get back to our Hippie love-in...:D

Doc
 

wincardona

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I have a couple of things to say...

how did he hit that bank? with what type stroke?I don't think it matters at all that he missed the ball after the bank; that probably goes without saying.

i love this thread. i can't think of anything i like to see more at this point in my pool life than people getting passionate about one pocket shots and ideas. let's face it, sitting around a coffee table having a cup tea and talking one pocket, without any contention or passion whatsoever, would be no fun at all!

lastly, was that an unnofficial highjack of the "what he actually did" post? :D:heh
I also would like to know what type of stroke he used to bank the 3ball, that would help players understand how a top respected player like Buddy was thinking.

Dr. Bill
 

wincardona

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Bill, I think there are others who have offered opinions during this thread who have the goal of sharing their own educated thoughts. I have no doubt Fred feels that way and I know I do. We are all very opinionated and strong in our convictions that our solutions are intelligent and powerful. This is why there is so much banter among us about a situation with so few possibilities. The intentions are to convey knowledge for knowledge sake. It is for others to accept or deny this information. I know I rarely discard outright someone's input without scrutiny.

Most all of you know of Fred's and Bill's expertise. Maybe you don't know much of my history or knowledge of the game. I'm not a big time, high profile player. However I have had my share of big time matches against some of the best in the business and emerged victorious on many occasions. The strength of my knowledge I will leave to you to decide given a reasonable period of time from reading my posts and the logic I employ. I am confident that my input will convince any skeptic that I know what I am talking about.
Tom
Now that's what i'm talking about..you go boy.:D

Dr. Bill
 

fred bentivegna

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I also would like to know what type of stroke he used to bank the 3ball, that would help players understand how a top respected player like Buddy was thinking.

Dr. Bill
I certainly know the type stroke to use on this shot, but it runs contrary to the "Science" people that hang out here. I have already been "patronized" here by one, who basically said to just leave me to my backward way of thinking when it comes to stroke. It was like he was patting me on the head, and munificently allowing me to go on thinking all those "dumb" concepts because he didnt want to embarass me.:frus

Now, since I am a spiteful, vengeful M'fer I will not venture forth what I do to make these kinds of shots on the public forum. ("He" might be watching -- and it aint SJD) But I will respond to anybody via a PM and say what I do to make this shot on.

Beard

If someone does PM me I will print their name and they can exchange PM's with others on the site to maybe lighten my workload. I will mention in the PM who I would not like to be included in the info exchange.
 

wincardona

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I certainly know the type stroke to use on this shot, but it runs contrary to the "Science" people that hang out here. I have already been "patronized" here by one, who basically said to just leave me to my backward way of thinking when it comes to stroke. It was like he was patting me on the head, and munificently allowing me to go on thinking all those "dumb" concepts because he didnt want to embarass me.:frus

Now, since I am a spiteful, vengeful M'fer I will not venture forth what I do to make these kinds of shots on the public forum. ("He" might be watching -- and it aint SJD) But I will respond to anybody via a PM and say what I do to make this shot on.

Beard

If someone does PM me I will print their name and they can exchange PM's with others on the site to maybe lighten my workload. I will mention in the PM who I would not like to be included in the info exchange.
Fred, stop being so sensitive, please. The question wasn't ..what type of a stroke is best used to pocket the ball, or what type of stroke 'would you' use to pocket the bank, it was what type of stroke did Buddy use for the shot. The type of stroke Buddy used to bank the 3ball will answer a lot about how he was thinking prior to shooting the shot. If he lagged it with a soft stroke to play both the bank and a trapping type of a shot then he's telling us that the
situation demanded that type of stroke, for him. If he went all out for the bank hitting it with a hard speed he's telling us that he liked his chances with the shot and it was time to go. (which I doubt he did) If he used medium speed with the shot to play both the ball and close position (which imo is a tougher shot) he's telling us that he's giving up his position for the opportunity to seize the moment and go for the shot and is willing to jeopardize building for a future.

That's the reason I asked the question about the type of stroke he used for the shot. I wanted to understand how he was thinking so I could consider that in the future with shots of this kind in situations similar to this one.

Dr. Bill
 

vapros

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Well, I thought this thing was dead, but it just won't lie down. I put the disc back in my new DVD player and looked at the shot again. Buddy hit the shot with center ball. He hit it with more than pocket speed, and made it. The cue ball just cleared the 13 and stopped right on the head string, on a line from the 2 ball to Buddy's zipper. He shot the 2 and it jawed and went up the long rail and into the upper left pocket. It was the cue ball that hit the two spotted balls. Efren would have had an easy shot, except that the 2 ball, if spotted, would have spoiled it. Buddy didn't wait.

R.I.P.
 

fred bentivegna

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Fred, stop being so sensitive, please. The question wasn't ..what type of a stroke is best used to pocket the ball, or what type of stroke 'would you' use to pocket the bank, it was what type of stroke did Buddy use for the shot. The type of stroke Buddy used to bank the 3ball will answer a lot about how he was thinking prior to shooting the shot. If he lagged it with a soft stroke to play both the bank and a trapping type of a shot then he's telling us that the
situation demanded that type of stroke, for him. If he went all out for the bank hitting it with a hard speed he's telling us that he liked his chances with the shot and it was time to go. (which I doubt he did) If he used medium speed with the shot to play both the ball and close position (which imo is a tougher shot) he's telling us that he's giving up his position for the opportunity to seize the moment and go for the shot and is willing to jeopardize building for a future.
That is the exact thing I have been trying to say, why you shouldnt do what he did at that moment, and it took you to say it.

That's the reason I asked the question about the type of stroke he used for the shot. I wanted to understand how he was thinking so I could consider that in the future with shots of this kind in situations similar to this one.

Dr. Bill
Supposedly, he went all out according to Vapros. I am not being sensitive, I am being spiteful. (The spite does not apply to 99% of the 1pkt.org forum members, my PM is open to all of them)

I will save giving my stroke solution to you and keep it for when I am in bite range.
 

androd

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Supposedly, he went all out according to Vapros. I am not being sensitive, I am being spiteful. (The spite does not apply to 99% of the 1pkt.org forum members, my PM is open to all of them)

I will save giving my stroke solution to you and keep it for when I am in bite range.
Aw Gnaw. :):p:D
Rod.
 

wincardona

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Supposedly, he went all out according to Vapros. I am not being sensitive, I am being spiteful. (The spite does not apply to 99% of the 1pkt.org forum members, my PM is open to all of them)

I will save giving my stroke solution to you and keep it for when I am in bite range.
You're making me 'dizzy' I never said that I would of shot the 3ball bank to go all out on it, bad percentage move. What I did say is that I would of shot the 3ball bank..not to make it..and position it behind the 2ball and 13ball sending the cue ball to the top rail by the 14ball. From there Reyes is in deep trouble without a reasonable return option. :frus:frus

Dr. Bill
 

Jimmy B

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You have been paying attention.:D Why didn't you say so. Or something.:rolleyes:

Dr. Bill


I have too Dr. and I can say that imo, you learn the most when things are both informative and entertaining at the same time. This thread certainly has been, so thanks to all of you and go get em Tom Tom......
 

Tom Wirth

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Jimmy, hee's the plan......I'm going to beat on 'em like a "Tom Tom" drum. :D
 

fred bentivegna

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You're making me 'dizzy' I never said that I would of shot the 3ball bank to go all out on it, bad percentage move. What I did say is that I would of shot the 3ball bank..not to make it..and position it behind the 2ball and 13ball sending the cue ball to the top rail by the 14ball. From there Reyes is in deep trouble without a reasonable return option. :frus:frus

Dr. Bill
Never said you did. I even said pocket speed on the 3 ball straight back would be my 3rd option.

Beard

Neither of the 3 options would get anyone arrested, it is all a matter of taste, and I taste better.
 

androd

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You have been paying attention.:D Why didn't you say so. Or something.:rolleyes:

Dr. Bill
Couple of options on banking the 3 ball. Stun it and try to play shape off the 8 ball or follow down and try to get a few more. Either one was make-able but I'd have probably followed down. It's what I'd have shot , but I'm a gofer. :)
 
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