Another strange situation.

cuesmith

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I've seen this come up a few times over the years and the old timers gave me their view of the correct ruling which I'll post later.

Player A comes to the table and playing even one pocket and pockets his 6th 7th and 8th balls but had lost count and continued shooting and made a 9th ball in his pocket BUT he accidentally follows the 9th ball in or scratches in even another pocket. At this point he spots 2 balls and realizes he still has 7 balls and was out when he shot the 9th ball in. What's the ruling?
 

vapros

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If there is a rule to cover this, no doubt someone will post it here. But it's hard to have much sympathy for a guy who does not know when he is out.
 

wincardona

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cuesmith said:
I've seen this come up a few times over the years and the old timers gave me their view of the correct ruling which I'll post later.

Player A comes to the table and playing even one pocket and pockets his 6th 7th and 8th balls but had lost count and continued shooting and made a 9th ball in his pocket BUT he accidentally follows the 9th ball in or scratches in even another pocket. At this point he spots 2 balls and realizes he still has 7 balls and was out when he shot the 9th ball in. What's the ruling?
To me i'm out when I make the 8th. ball, period, game over. What defense does the other player have in terms of a claim?

Billy I.
 

NH Steve

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cuesmith said:
I've seen this come up a few times over the years and the old timers gave me their view of the correct ruling which I'll post later.

Player A comes to the table and playing even one pocket and pockets his 6th 7th and 8th balls but had lost count and continued shooting and made a 9th ball in his pocket BUT he accidentally follows the 9th ball in or scratches in even another pocket. At this point he spots 2 balls and realizes he still has 7 balls and was out when he shot the 9th ball in. What's the ruling?
I would say game over -- as long as his opponent has not shot since spotting those two balls. In other words, as long as the game hasn't moved along to the next player, so all you have to do is count the balls -- yes, the game would be over, assuming the subsequent count comes up as having been over before the scratch. Plenty of times it takes more than one count to be sure the game is over...

On the other hand, if player B has shot since the inadvertent miss- count/ spotting of two balls/ and continuation of the game, I think you need to continue playing on from there, because at that point it could become an argument of how many balls were spotted or when & where balls were pocketed, etc. You no longer can simply count and verify as they lie, so you have to continue.

That's my opinion
 

SactownTom

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From our own rules;

The first player (or team) to legally score eight balls into their own pocket wins the game, whether they pocket their game-winning ball by their own shot, or as a result of their opponent’s shot.

A couple of years ago at the DCC One Pocket match, A player ran 8 and out and gathered the balls and racked for the Hill-Hill game. But, he then realized he owed a ball (coin on the table). When he saw the coin, he asked his opponent what to do, his opponent told him to call the TD.

The TD ruled a concession (two or more balls moved) and awarded the game to the non-shooting player. The loser asked if it was ok to just play the game over, he didn't want to lose the match because of a rule.

BTW, he was reminded he lost the game by not paying attention to the coin... not the rule.
 

John Brumback

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wincardona said:
To me i'm out when I make the 8th. ball, period, game over. What defense does the other player have in terms of a claim?

Billy I.

I agree with Billy I. when you get the 8, games over..But then, could your opp
call a foul because you just practiced during the set?? HMMM JB
 

John Brumback

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SactownTom said:
From our own rules;

The first player (or team) to legally score eight balls into their own pocket wins the game, whether they pocket their game-winning ball by their own shot, or as a result of their opponent’s shot.

A couple of years ago at the DCC One Pocket match, A player ran 8 and out and gathered the balls and racked for the Hill-Hill game. But, he then realized he owed a ball (coin on the table). When he saw the coin, he asked his opponent what to do, his opponent told him to call the TD.

The TD ruled a concession (two or more balls moved) and awarded the game to the non-shooting player. The loser asked if it was ok to just play the game over, he didn't want to lose the match because of a rule.

BTW, he was reminded he lost the game by not paying attention to the coin... not the rule.
I'll be dang! I had that same thing happen to me.Lucky for me I was on the winning side of It. Side note.I don't like the Idea about using coins,car keys in the pockets,bells going off..That sort of thing.I like the old sleepers. snooze you lose.John B.
 
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lll

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to quote keyshawn johnson
CMON MAN
you won the game case closed
the rest was practice shots until they raqcked for the next game
JMHO
 

SactownTom

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JBKY

I thought about using your name, but thought better of it.
IIRC Ken Shuman (TD) had to make the ruling.
Your opponent was enjoying his first DCC and came all the way from Europe.

I guess he got excited.

Tom

John Brumback said:
I'll be dang! I had that same thing happen to me.Lucky for me I was on the winning side of It. Side note.I don't like the Idea about using coins,car keys in the pockets,bells going off..That sort of thing.I like the old sleepers. snooze you lose.John B.
 

John Brumback

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SactownTom said:
JBKY

I thought about using your name, but thought better of it.
IIRC Ken Shuman (TD) had to make the ruling.
Your opponent was enjoying his first DCC and came all the way from Europe.

I guess he got excited.

Tom
I know he did Tom. And he admitted that It was his fault later on. Believe It or not, I'm good buds with that guy now!!!. He's a great guy. There's sort of a grey area in there,don't you think? Yeah, There's just not much the TD can do after your opp moves a bunch of balls with his hands. John B.
 

John Brumback

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lll said:
to quote keyshawn johnson
CMON MAN
you won the game case closed
the rest was practice shots until they raqcked for the next game
JMHO
I had never heard that.WOW!! That's cool. John B.
 

Cowboy Dennis

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SactownTom said:
JBKY

Your opponent was enjoying his first DCC and came all the way from Europe.

I guess he got excited.

Tom
His opponent also started a thread on this site looking for sympathy because the mean ogre had taken advantage of him and most everyone agreed with him and patted him on the back and told him what a raw deal he got...except for me. I told him that he should be responsible & accountable for the mistake he made and not go crying for help. Most everyone disagreed with me, go figure:) .

Here's the thread:http://onepocket.org/forum/showthread.php?t=2480

Dennis
 

John Brumback

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Cowboy Dennis said:
His opponent also started a thread on this site looking for sympathy because the mean ogre had taken advantage of him and most everyone agreed with him and patted him on the back and told him what a raw deal he got...except for me. I told him that he should be responsible & accountable for the mistake he made and not go crying for help. Most everyone disagreed with me, go figure:) .

Here's the thread:http://onepocket.org/forum/showthread.php?t=2480

Dennis

How in the world would anybody think he got a raw deal?? You have to be kidding.I guess I'll have to go read that. Let me guess..They wanted me to play the game over.? Very Interesting.....John B.
 

Cowboy Dennis

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John Brumback said:
How in the world would anybody think he got a raw deal?? You have to be kidding.I guess I'll have to go read that. Let me guess..They wanted me to play the game over.? Very Interesting.....John B.
Everybody on this site thought he got a raw deal. AB insinuated that you cheated and the rules should be changed. Most everyone thought you took advantage of his naivete, you bad person:) . Nobody told Roy "tough shit", except me.

P.S. I just "quoted" the post so it's now on the front page.

Dennis
 

cuesmith

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I used to own Royal Family Billiards of Oakley (Better know as just Oakley) in Cincinnati. It was an "old school" pool room as John Brumback will attest. It was the action room in Cincinnati from the time Merguards closed down until I closed it and opened

Beechmont Billiards on the east side of town. It was full of hustlers, con men, "ne'er do wells" and the top players in the area. When this situation first arose while I was there I asked my right hand man, Joey Spaeth, what the rule was on a situation like

this. Clem Metz was also there at the time and they both were adamant that the player was responsible for knowing his ball count and if he continued shooting after he was out and scratched, he was no longer out! It was probably something that was

just customary in the area but I ran into the same scenario in Columbus one time and asked the house man there what was customary there and he told me the same thing! But as Johnny Brumback mentioned, in our area unless it was specified in advance

everyone also played "sleepers" where if you _forgot_ to spot a ball you owed and your opponent didn't remind you, it was forgotten and lost with the exception of balls that were to be spotted due to a handicap there it required spotting balls so that

there were enough balls for each player to have a chance to reach their out ball. (Like if the game was 10-8 or something in excess of 16 total). I'll admit that my first inclination was that if a person reached his out ball, the game was over and whatever

happened after didn't matter, but the people in my area were accustomed to playing that way so I didn't interfere.

I gotta chuckle about John's comment about marking the pockets and "putting keys in your pocket" when you owed a ball as a reminder. I know where that stems from. LOL It was when John played Mark Masden one pocket and they played "sleepers".

Mark had a huge ring of keys he'd throw in Johnny's pocket whenever he owed a ball. When John made a ball in the pocket is sounded like an alarm with the keys jingling, so Mark would grab the ball and the keys out of Johnny's pocket to make sure he

didn't forget to spot the ball!

After I posted this I called Danny DiLiberto and asked him about this situation and he also said that when the 8th ball went into the pocket the game was over and that it didn't matter what happened after. It pays to know how they play in a certain area

because the rules aren't really universal everywhere.

Just more hot air!

Sherm

Sherm Custom Cues
Cincinnati, Ohio
 
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John Brumback

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Cowboy Dennis said:
Everybody on this site thought he got a raw deal. AB insinuated that you cheated and the rules should be changed. Nobody told Roy "tough shit", except me.

P.S. I just "quoted" the post so it's now on the front page.

Dennis

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

John Brumback

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Cowboy Dennis said:
Everybody on this site thought he got a raw deal. AB insinuated that you cheated and the rules should be changed. Most everyone thought you took advantage of his naivete, you bad person:) . Nobody told Roy "tough shit", except me.

P.S. I just "quoted" the post so it's now on the front page.

Dennis
Well,A BIG thanks to you Dennis for trying to tell them I didn't cheat!!
PS: that match helped me win the all around at the DCC..Whew hehehe
Roys ok with It now.JB
 

senor

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John Brumback said:
I'll be dang! I had that same thing happen to me.Lucky for me I was on the winning side of It. Side note.I don't like the Idea about using coins,car keys in the pockets,bells going off..That sort of thing.I like the old sleepers. snooze you lose.John B.
Hmm, I kinda think that if a ball is owed, a ball is owed, and the only way you could snooze the ball owed is to start another game.

To me, the thought process is the same as saying that when the game is won, the game is won. It doesn't matter if the player shooting pockets more than 8 balls or if the opponent comes to the table assuming he has a shot to win the game. JMO
 

John Brumback

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cuesmith said:
I used to own Royal Family Billiards of Oakley (Better know as just Oakley) in Cincinnati. It was an "old school" pool room as John Brumback will attest. It was the action room in Cincinnati from the time Merguards closed down until I closed it and opened

Beechmont Billiards on the east side of town. It was full of hustlers, con men, "ne'er do wells" and the top players in the area. When this situation first arose while I was there I asked my right hand man, Joey Spaeth, what the rule was on a situation like

this. Clem Metz was also there at the time and they both were adamant that the player was responsible for knowing his ball count and if he continued shooting after he was out and scratched, he was no longer out! It was probably something that was

just customary in the area but I ran into the same scenario in Columbus one time and asked the house man there what was customary there and he told me the same thing! But as Johnny Brumback mentioned, in our area unless it was specified in advance

everyone also played "sleepers" where if you _forgot_ to spot a ball you owed and your opponent didn't remind you, it was forgotten and lost with the exception of balls that were to be spotted due to a handicap there it required spotting balls so that

there were enough balls for each player to have a chance to reach their out ball. (Like if the game was 10-8 or something in excess of 16 total). I'll admit that my first inclination was that if a person reached his out ball, the game was over and whatever

happened after didn't matter, but the people in my area were accustomed to playing that way so I didn't interfere.

I gotta chuckle about John's comment about marking the pockets and "putting keys in your pocket" when you owed a ball as a reminder. I know where that stems from. LOL It was when John played Mark Masden one pocket and they played "sleepers".

Mark had a huge ring of keys he'd throw in Johnny's pocket whenever he owed a ball. When John made a ball in the pocket is sounded like an alarm with the keys jingling, so Mark would grab the ball and the keys out of Johnny's pocket to make sure he

didn't forget to spot the ball!

After I posted this I called Danny DiLiberto and asked him about this situation and he also said that when the 8th ball went into the pocket the game was over and that it didn't matter what happened after. It pays to know how they play in a certain area

because the rules aren't really universal everywhere.
Hey Sherm,Man I'm still laughing!! That stinking mark masden! That would make me so Mad! I told him every time we played, that he could not do that.He would just do It anyway. Hey, If you want to dance,you gotta pay the fiddler.hahahah John B.
 

John Brumback

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senor said:
Hmm, I kinda think that if a ball is owed, a ball is owed, and the only way you could snooze the ball owed is to start another game.

To me, the thought process is the same as saying that when the game is won, the game is won. It doesn't matter if the player shooting pockets more than 8 balls or if the opponent comes to the table assuming he has a shot to win the game. JMO

Yes sir.I do see your point also.Very good point I might add. I guess there are a couple different ways people play It. Kinda grey area,uh? John B.
 
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