Another rules question

darmoose

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of course the op game begins when the cb is struck. failure to hit the rack and get a ball to the rail is a foul. the incoming shooter has the cb where it lays unless it went into a hole, then he gets cb behind the line.

the breaker is -1.

you and opponent can agree to anything you want, and there may be many reasons to do so.

:)
 

lll

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Big argument at Buffalo’s in a gambling match. What’s the rule? What would you do.

Player A is breaking, player A miscues and uses his stick to stop the cue ball. Player A says game doesn’t start till the balls are broke. Player B says says game starts when cue ball is struck.

I’ve always believed the game starts when the cue ball is struck.
of course the op game begins when the cb is struck. failure to hit the rack and get a ball to the rail is a foul. the incoming shooter has the cb where it lays unless it went into a hole, then he gets cb behind the line.

the breaker is -1.

you and opponent can agree to anything you want, and there may be many reasons to do so.

:)
Darrell
In this situation there was more than just the failure to meet the criteria of a legal break
The guy stopped the movement of the cue ball
What do you think the penalty for that should be?
 

darmoose

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Darrell
In this situation there was more than just the failure to meet the criteria of a legal break
The guy stopped the movement of the cue ball
What do you think the penalty for that should be?
Of course you are correct, Larry. I was just addressing the rule as to when the game has started, Without regard to what else happened.

In this instance the breaker went on to interfere with the path of the CB. I guess the argument could be made to give the opponent BIH behind the line, however, I believe there is a rule covering interfering with the path of the CB that basically says to place the CB at the location where it was interfered with, or in the alternative, where the players could agree it would have ended up without the interference having taken place.

I could be wrong (very rare):lol, I am sure someone here can quote the actual rule. :D
 

jtompilot

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I play one guy who will occasionally try to break and ends up trapping the ball with the cue, obviously a foul. I just let him go ahead and try again. Just a non-gambling game so it really is no big deal. If money was involved it could be an issue.
I think it was $100 per game
 

Island Drive

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Bad Action

Bad Action

It was not a friendly game.
So if we’re playing and I see I’m going to miss the head ball you’ll let me stop it with my stick and try again:lol
Learned long ago, people that are like this, are not worth my time.

If an argument starts so easily, I'd just play that game, be nice and uncork.

How many times are you going to pet a dog that bites.

If this was a fair man, we'd talk and maybe come to an agreement to flip a coin on who makes this rule.

The looser of that coin toss will then make the rule the next time there is a rules issue.
 

bstroud

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Learned long ago, people that are like this, are not worth my time.

If an argument starts so easily, I'd just play that game, be nice and uncork.

How many times are you going to pet a dog that bites.

If this was a fair man, we'd talk and maybe come to an agreement to flip a coin on who makes this rule.

The looser of that coin toss will then make the rule the next time there is a rules issue.
Bill,

I agree with you. If people are such nits about the rules why play with them. It is a waste of time and they probably won't bet much.

$100.00 a game is not much of a bet these days.

Bill Stroud
 

El Chapo

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I do not see this thread as being about what players should do to make their opponents more comfortable and want to continue playing with them.

The thread is about what should happen, according to the rules, when a player purposefully stops a moving cueball during a game of one pocket.

What if in the middle of a game a player grabbed a moving cueball? Whatever you think should happen in that instance, is what should happen here in my estimation.
 

Island Drive

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Rules of the Road

Rules of the Road

I do not see this thread as being about what players should do to make their opponents more comfortable and want to continue playing with them.

The thread is about what should happen, according to the rules,
when a player purposefully stops a moving cueball during a game of one pocket.

What if in the middle of a game a player grabbed a moving cueball? Whatever you think should happen in that instance, is what should happen here in my estimation.
Then tell us all, what are the Rules for Gambling with someone you don't know....?
 

El Chapo

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Then tell us all, what are the Rules for Gambling with someone you don't know....?
I was commenting more on what I think the rule should be. But if i had to guess, as I have been saying, a person picking up a moving cueball in the middle of a game of one pocket i am betting is loss of game. According to the official rules i mean.

This is the thing and part of my point, why is this not covered somewhere clearly? Golfers need to reference rules all the time, because weird crap comes up when you play a sport every day. So, there are rule books for reference. Why don't we have this? I have no idea! Players should just be able to look this stuff up in a reference book that should be like a bible for every pool room. I don't know guys i swear the kids from lord of the flies could get this stuff closer to kosher than we have it, so i am not sure what to say. So, good question bit my answer is why the hell is it not very very clear what happens here according to rules? Because as it stands the best we can do is "i just let him ...." is not a very satisfactory answer.
 

El Chapo

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I will just show my ass here and say this stuff continues to frustrate me to no end. Just example after example of stuff like this in one pocket. Just over and over and over the same problematic patterns pop up that seem to purposefully continue without any thought other than "let him rerack". That is fine. But, meanwhile, we need a real rule. An actual reference.

What do you guys think happens in golf if a player kicks a golf ball that is rolling toward the hole? What if a bowler jumped out onto the lanes and grabbed his opponents ball before it hit the pins (if that is even possible).

Do we even all realize we have a sport where the equivalent is happening, and we have no idea what to do?! Players playing pool their entire lives, and they have no clue what should happen when a player grabs a moving ball off the table. I am the only one that finds this odd? I think it is no wonder sometimes pool is where it is at. This kind of thing seriously needs to be cleared up! A sport can never be taken seriously otherwise.
 

Dennis "Whitey" Young

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El Chapo, to answer your question according to the rules (WPA) when gambling. The rule on the break is that the referee at their discretion administers an unsportsmanlike penalty. But the penalty is not specified. The unsportsmanlike act is always the same so why then is there not a specific penalty.
* So There Is No Correct Answer *
I personally 'hate' jerk ass rule writings that leave it open ending, up in the air. I would never write a rule as poorly as this.

Isn't WPA all that, "Not"! WPA rules are specific for their tournaments, but not for the real world, and especially not for OP for they do not recognize it nor govern it. You can not apply WPA in its totality to OP, it does not work that way. They never wrote one rule specific to OP and the break is entirely different in OP vs. any other game, for the game is different. Therefore the penalty would be different than in other games.

It is a knee jerk reaction to grab the cb after a miscue break, but nonetheless it is a foul. In OP I would make it an additional pt. penalty added on to the 1 pt. penalty for not making a legal break. It is now a re-break and the breaker is now down -2 pts.
If you had something like this in place there should be no argument.

I wonder how these guys settled it? Whitey
 

Island Drive

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I was commenting more on what I think the rule should be. But if i had to guess, as I have been saying, a person picking up a moving cueball in the middle of a game of one pocket i am betting is loss of game. According to the official rules i mean.

This is the thing and part of my point, why is this not covered somewhere clearly? Golfers need to reference rules all the time, because weird crap comes up when you play a sport every day. So, there are rule books for reference. Why don't we have this? I have no idea! Players should just be able to look this stuff up in a reference book that should be like a bible for every pool room. I don't know guys i swear the kids from lord of the flies could get this stuff closer to kosher than we have it, so i am not sure what to say. So, good question bit my answer is why the hell is it not very very clear what happens here according to rules? Because as it stands the best we can do is "i just let him ...." is not a very satisfactory answer.
Rounders/gamblers don't look at this game like Thorsten Hollman or Ralph Souquet.

Look at league play, APA, BCA, Valley, and private leagues. They have different rules, why? You tell me.
 

El Chapo

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To me, it is completely ridiculous. Sorry, but it is.

Let us just say I invented the 100 meter dash just now. People love it, and it is well received, but there are some problems. They ask me, "what happens when a guy jumps the gun". My answer.... "ahhh, whatever, just do what you think".

Another person asks, "we had a runner go into another runner's lane and interfere with the other runner and we did not know what to do". Answer... "ahhh, maybe just restart, whatever, it is all ok".

That is a joke. There is not other way to say it. The sport would be a joke, and it would be so ****ing easy to make a few rules to answer those questions concretely for every single other ****ing person for the next 5000 years to enjoy, would it not?
 

Dennis "Whitey" Young

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I will just show my ass here and say this stuff continues to frustrate me to no end. Just example after example of stuff like this in one pocket. Just over and over and over the same problematic patterns pop up that seem to purposefully continue without any thought other than "let him rerack". That is fine. But, meanwhile, we need a real rule. An actual reference.

What do you guys think happens in golf if a player kicks a golf ball that is rolling toward the hole? What if a bowler jumped out onto the lanes and grabbed his opponents ball before it hit the pins (if that is even possible).

Do we even all realize we have a sport where the equivalent is happening, and we have no idea what to do?! Players playing pool their entire lives, and they have no clue what should happen when a player grabs a moving ball off the table. I am the only one that finds this odd? I think it is no wonder sometimes pool is where it is at. This kind of thing seriously needs to be cleared up! A sport can never be taken seriously otherwise.
That is so well said, bravo! I am still holding out hope that OP.org will come to the realization that they need to develop their own general rules instead of relying on WPA. This can be accomplished. Modern General Rules which includes videos, diagrams, specific glossary including slang vocabulary specific to OP, plus much more. thanks, Whitey
 

Island Drive

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Looking out for #1....Brotha from anotha motha mindset

Looking out for #1....Brotha from anotha motha mindset

That is so well said, bravo! I am still holding out hope that OP.org will come to the realization that they need to develop their own general rules instead of relying on WPA. This can be accomplished. Modern General Rules which includes videos, diagrams, specific glossary including slang vocabulary specific to OP, plus much more. thanks, Whitey

Hummmmmmmmmm, another set of rules from us telling others that ours are the ones..........hummmmmmmmmmmmm. This has a familiar ring.

If its an event....then there's a players meeting and the rules are gone over.

If it's gambling, it's just that.
 

Dennis "Whitey" Young

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Hummmmmmmmmm, another set of rules from us telling others that ours are the ones..........hummmmmmmmmmmmm. This has a familiar ring.

If its an event....then there's a players meeting and the rules are gone over.

If it's gambling, it's just that.
It sounds like you are portraying that I am suggesting circumventing our Official OP rules, not at all, those stay in tack as Steve desires! But to prevent the on going continuing rule discussions from always coming up, I then advise that OP.org develop their own General Rules, compreda!

I can probably count at least 50 times rules discussions have come up since the 2 yrs. I have been a member, and many times they repeat themselves. And not once has any rule discussion ever resulted in a conclusion! So Island Drive what are you saying, kept going on as we always have, hmmmmmmmmmmmm!
I will add this; it seems you guys get a kick out of these continuing rule discussions that have no conclusions! El Chapo exception, he wants a change! Whitey
 
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Island Drive

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I agree, WE should have Our Rules....was not bashing the moment.

I agree, WE should have Our Rules....was not bashing the moment.

It sounds like you are portraying that I am suggesting circumventing our Official OP rules, not at all, those stay in tack as Steve desires! But to prevent the on going continuing rule discussions from always coming up, I then advise that OP.org develop their own General Rules, compreda!

I can probably count at least 50 times rules discussions have come up since the 2 yrs. I have been a member, and many times they repeat themselves. And not once has any rule discussion ever resulted in a conclusion! So Island Drive what are you saying, kept going on as we always have, hmmmmmmmmmmmm!
I will add this; it seems you guys get a kick out of these continuing rule discussions that have no conclusions! El Chapo exception, he wants a change! Whitey
No, I respect what your saying....but ''in the moment'' I was given the above phrase when a rule/confrontation came up in the pool rooms of E. St. Louis IL in the sixties.

My roommate in College Ange worked the garbage trucks on the S. side of Chicago, so I felt somewhat safe, as he knew very well before matters went sidewayzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. We drove around in his metallic Blue 52 Chevy coupe.

Played a couple more rooms like that, once in TN and anotha' :) near Compton CA.

Never again with the Brotha's.

Only gambled with two otha' brotha's in my LIFE that I trusted, one of em was Gabby and the otha' slips me.
 

beatle

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there is no real harm done with all these new rules being needed for no reason.

a guy miscues, so what if he grabs the ball without thinking. you might do the same thing. no real harm. if you want to penalize him one point so be it. but to make a complicated rule out of nothing is worse than doing nothing.

back to the old sticking your hand in the pocket to catch a ball being a foul or loss of game or whatever you want to make of it.
 

Bob Jewett

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there is no real harm done with all these new rules being needed for no reason.

a guy miscues, so what if he grabs the ball without thinking. you might do the same thing. no real harm. if you want to penalize him one point so be it. but to make a complicated rule out of nothing is worse than doing nothing.

back to the old sticking your hand in the pocket to catch a ball being a foul or loss of game or whatever you want to make of it.
If you are playing in a tournament, what should the penalty be for catching the cue ball on a miscue?
 
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