all ball foul pros and cons

jrhendy

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As a senior player I would almost never win a game with all ball fouls. I probably move or brush one ball in most games I play. I still often foul by moving two balls when I shoot over balls or use the rake. I have reduced this by choosing another shot when I can. I accept this and work with it because it has always been the rule.

The people I play also accept it because they know it is going to happen sooner or later.:D
 

Red Shoes

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"All Fouls"....You need a ref. or game keeper. Otherwise the "Shot goes with the player"....It is the responsibility of the NON SHOOTING player to get an AGREED UPON CALLER.....to call a difficult shot OR settle other table disputes. This of course does not apply if your gambling with Mother Theresa.....But as Freddy the Beard used to say....."defend yourself at all times".
 

vapros

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When I am trying to put down an awkward bridge my pinky finger is out of control, and sometimes it play dirty tricks on me. I have thought about taping it to the ring finger, but I think that would be worse. So it can veto the shot I am trying to reach.
 

Dennis "Whitey" Young

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I actually have put a lot of thought into this, recently. I agree when you are older then you accidently move balls more. I really can not remember ever fouling a ball when I was playing for real 45 yrs ago.

But, to maintain the historical way OP was, and to maintain it's roots, and to maintain a high standard within the rules then in the rules IMO it should state; OP is played by All Ball Fouls.

I believe in keeping OP rules standard as possible, with a few exceptions. Exceptions being any rule that absolutely makes common sense then should be adopted into the standard rules.

Rules such as; Cue Ball Foul Only & Breaker Racks for instance could be listed as 'Alternative Rules' Or 'Alternative Ways To Play'.

At our MOT event players meeting it can be decided whether to play 'all ball fouls' or 'cue ball foul only'. My point being; if we keep a high standard within our rules, and have a vote at MOT, what can be better than that?

Discussions about rules has no meaning. Since I became a member two years ago, we probably have had at least 30 rules question discussions with no results yet. It is my suggestion that Steve does a poll on pertinent rule questions, other than that it will continue to be just that; a discussion with no conclusion! Whitey
 
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BRLongArm

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I actually have put a lot of thought into this, recently. I agree when you are older then you accidently move balls more. I really can not remember ever fouling a ball when I was playing for real 45 yrs ago.

But, to maintain the historical way OP was, and to maintain it's roots, and to maintain a high standard within the rules then in the rules IMO it should state; OP is played by All Ball Fouls.

I believe in keeping OP rules standard as possible, with a few exceptions. Exceptions being any rule that absolutely makes common sense then should be adopted into the standard rules.

Rules such as; Cue Ball Foul Only & Breaker Racks for instance could be listed as 'Alternative Rules' Or 'Alternative Ways To Play'.

At our MOT event players meeting it can be decided whether to play 'all ball fouls' or 'cue ball foul only'. My point being; if we keep a high standard within our rules, and have a vote at MOT, what can be better than that?

Discussions about rules has no meaning. Since I became a member two years ago, we probably have had at least 30 rules question discussions with no results yet. It is my suggestion that Steve does a poll on pertinent rule questions, other than that it will continue to be just that; a discussion with no conclusion! Whitey
One pocket has always been cue ball foul, at least for the last 30 years, anyway. Can anyone remember if one pocket was ever all ball fouls in tournament play?
 

One Pocket Ghost

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One pocket has always been cue ball foul, at least for the last 30 years, anyway. Can anyone remember if one pocket was ever all ball fouls in tournament play?
Here's some One Pocket history for you...

Grady's L. O. O. P. tournaments 40-45 years ago were cueball fouls only...

The first U.S. Open One Pocket tournaments approx. 30 years ago were also cueball fouls only...

And all the serious high $$$ gambling that I was around 30-50 years ago was cueball fouls only.

- Ghost
 
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Dennis "Whitey" Young

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Of course we all know that all games of pool was 'all ball fouls'. I played from '69 - '73 and that the way it was, there is absolutely no disputing that. Official BCA rules I am talking about. In '67 BCA adopted OP and that would be how in an Official BCA tournament it would be played, period!

In talking to Butch, the owner of Bellflower Palace, he stated that the way hustlers play this is; when you accidently disturb a ball it is not a foul unless you go ahead and shoot.

You can not confuse the way it 'was always played' (non-BCA sanctioned tourney), or hustling vs. how the official BCA Tournament's are played!

I am ok playing either way, but MOT's will always be 'cue ball foul only', and that is what matters to OP.org. Whitey
 
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BRLongArm

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I can't speak for the rest of you, but I am not looking to get in an argument or dispute while I'm playing. I work all day and play for the competition of it. Money is how we keep track. To that end, I look for rules that will limit arguments or beefs.

These rules comport with that intent:

1. Rack your own. Ends arguments over slugging someone on the rack.
2. Re rack on a made ball ends arguments over rack mechanics. They do exist. Just ask Russian Kenny or his girlfriend.
3. Ball must be all the way over the line instead of base of the ball. Easier to tell, especially when a line is across the head string.
4. Cue foul only eliminates claims that you grazed a ball. You touch, you inform your opponent. It is his option to move it back or leave it.
5. No sleepers eliminates that argument. Wait a full inning after it is noticed.
6. Shot goes to the shooter unless a neutral party calls the shot before shot.
7. Unless a regular customer, always post cash.
8. Establish an ending time before match. Eliminates the "you quit winner" argument.

I have found these rules limit arguments and stress in the game. I highly recommend them to you if you are not already using them.
 
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One Pocket Ghost

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"All Fouls"....You need a ref. or game keeper. Otherwise the "Shot goes with the player"....It is the responsibility of the NON SHOOTING player to get an AGREED UPON CALLER.....to call a difficult shot OR settle other table disputes. This of course does not apply if your gambling with Mother Theresa.....But as Freddy the Beard used to say....."defend yourself at all times".
Johnny, you're too trusting....if the bet was high enough $$$$, I'd be watching dat Mother Theresa and her peeps like a hawk - and I'd make her post up too...:eek: :eek:...:heh....:p

- Ghost
 

Billy Jackets

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Billie all valid points. But....
In the room Kerley is speaking of it is place to f*ck with shooter. It is in place for the opponent to jump up and run around to watch the shot closely etc.
The feller that instituted the all ball rule had just that in mind. I know how he thinks. I don’t play all ball fouls~T
In my experience all that noise and nonsense is usually done to try to disguise a dump.
There is so much confusion, and noise, and people throwing misdirections , the suckers have no clue.
 

Red Shoes

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Bruce....I didn't say I wouldn't make her "post up"...let's not be crazy AND you might want to check the "rupees" she puts up...I heard there has been a lot of "rupee counterfeiting" going on in the southern suburbs lately.
 

Billy Jackets

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I can't speak for the rest of you, but I am not looking to get in an argument or dispute while I'm playing. I work all day and play for the competition of it. Money is how we keep track. To that end, I look for rules that will limit arguments or beefs.

These rules comport with that intent:

1. Rack your own. Ends arguments over slugging someone on the rack.
2. Re rack on a made ball ends arguments over rack mechanics. They do exist. Just ask Russian Kenny or his girlfriend.
3. Ball must be all the way over the line instead of base of the ball. Easier to tell, especially when a line is across the head string.
4. Cue foul only eliminates claims that you grazed a ball. You touch, you inform your opponent. It is his option to move it back or leave it.
5. No sleepers eliminates that argument. Wait a full inning after it is noticed.
6. Shot goes to the shooter unless a neutral party calls the shot before shot.
7. Unless a regular customer, always post cash.
8. Establish an ending time before match. Eliminates the "you quit winner" argument.

I have found these rules limit arguments and stress in the game. I highly recommend them to you if you are not already using them.


I would have no problem playing by these rules, and have many times.
 

NH Steve

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Apr 25, 2004
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I can't speak for the rest of you, but I am not looking to get in an argument or dispute while I'm playing. I work all day and play for the competition of it. Money is how we keep track. To that end, I look for rules that will limit arguments or beefs.

These rules comport with that intent:

1. Rack your own. Ends arguments over slugging someone on the rack.
2. Re rack on a made ball ends arguments over rack mechanics. They do exist. Just ask Russian Kenny or his girlfriend.
3. Ball must be all the way over the line instead of base of the ball. Easier to tell, especially when a line is across the head string.
4. Cue foul only eliminates claims that you grazed a ball. You touch, you inform your opponent. It is his option to move it back or leave it.
5. No sleepers eliminates that argument. Wait a full inning after it is noticed.
6. Shot goes to the shooter unless a neutral party calls the shot before shot.
7. Unless a regular customer, always post cash.
8. Establish an ending time before match. Eliminates the "you quit winner" argument.

I have found these rules limit arguments and stress in the game. I highly recommend them to you if you are not already using them.
These all sound good to me. On sleepers, if both players agree you can spot right away, but if either player disagrees then yes, you have to wait until after the next shot.
 

NH Steve

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I actually have put a lot of thought into this, recently. I agree when you are older then you accidently move balls more. I really can not remember ever fouling a ball when I was playing for real 45 yrs ago.

But, to maintain the historical way OP was, and to maintain it's roots, and to maintain a high standard within the rules then in the rules IMO it should state; OP is played by All Ball Fouls.

I believe in keeping OP rules standard as possible, with a few exceptions. Exceptions being any rule that absolutely makes common sense then should be adopted into the standard rules.

Rules such as; Cue Ball Foul Only & Breaker Racks for instance could be listed as 'Alternative Rules' Or 'Alternative Ways To Play'.

At our MOT event players meeting it can be decided whether to play 'all ball fouls' or 'cue ball foul only'. My point being; if we keep a high standard within our rules, and have a vote at MOT, what can be better than that?

Discussions about rules has no meaning. Since I became a member two years ago, we probably have had at least 30 rules question discussions with no results yet. It is my suggestion that Steve does a poll on pertinent rule questions, other than that it will continue to be just that; a discussion with no conclusion! Whitey
Yes, the idea is to refresh our official rules. I want to do that with minimal re-wording -- only rewording where a definite issue has been identified.

We already have a method in our rules that incorporates alternate rules as clearly differentiated alternate rules, but right there within each rule section. I think that works.
 

Jimmy B

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That's funny, Mitch.. Movie'l do that to ya.. Todd mentioned Counselor, yesterday, and instantly it took me back to this great scene.. Nolte was so different and dominated, I almost forgot he was in this.. ha.

https://youtu.be/6vO-XDUiRqU?t=35
 

Mkbtank

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all ball foul pros and cons

That's funny, Mitch.. Movie'l do that to ya.. Todd mentioned Counselor, yesterday, and instantly it took me back to this great scene.. Nolte was so different and dominated, I almost forgot he was in this.. ha.



https://youtu.be/6vO-XDUiRqU?t=35


Ha!! I flashed to the same scene! What a great movie. Max Cady is a crazy dude! Well, was.
 

bobt64

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Jun 29, 2015
Messages
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As a senior player I would almost never win a game with all ball fouls. I probably move or brush one ball in most games I play. I still often foul by moving two balls when I shoot over balls or use the rake. I have reduced this by choosing another shot when I can. I accept this and work with it because it has always been the rule.

The people I play also accept it because they know it is going to happen sooner or later.:D
In our senior group it happens a lot, not a big issue. Your also right about the rake, some people really have a hard time with it. No gambling involved so there shouldn't be any reason to get bent out of shape over it.
 
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